Ed I read your post a lot of what you wrote resonates with me:

Originally Posted By: EdfromNYC
I want forgiveness from my father for allowing a man to fondle me with his hands and orally.

Ed what did you do that was wrong? Please tell me? I donít think you would let anyone do that to you, how can you ask for forgiveness when you havenít done anything wrong, the only one here whoís wrong is the man who abused you, or am I missing something, please explain.

Originally Posted By: EdfromNYC
I decided somewhere around the same time that I would reject everything that he stood for and I belittled him in my mind and in word. I treated him as being worthless and thought of him as such.

Maybe you thought of him as ineffectual, less of a man because he could not help you either with the attack or deal with it afterward, unlike you he was a man, your dad; maybe in your mind you blamed him?

Originally Posted By: EdfromNYC
I want to see him as the extremely damaged man that he is and not be stuck in the past. I want to admit my "mistakes" such as the complete rejection of him and anything he stood for. That may have hurt me more than him.

If your dad was anything like mine he might not have noticed.

Originally Posted By: EdfromNYC
I rejected many things that my father and other men stood for.

I even rejected myself, just because my dad loved me just a bit, itís real easy to do when you think of yourself as such shit, right?

Ed all I can add is that I lived my life beholden to the lie of hating my father for everything, I think you internalize the dehumanization from the abuse, and you put people into 2 categories, people and anyone else, somehow just like me you put your dad in that inhuman file and close the door, I donít know about you but in doing that to your dad no matter how horrible of a person he is is to demean yourself. Itís one of the hardest things Iím dealing with right now the fact that everyone of us was abused by a person, not a thing not a monster, but a person, just like you, just like me, how can you and you abuser both be people? See I think you canít separate out an abuser as separate from us, they are us, if they arenít people then we arenít either, itís pretty simple.

Ed my father is no longer with us; in his own pathetic way he apologized to me for everything last time I saw him, i wasnít able to accept it, but I could now. The silence between a father and son over abuse just makes me sick, itís so sad, 2 men, so beholden to their maleness that zero communication can happen.

Women wonder why they are forbidden to post here, 2 women and being silent; something about missing tongues or something right?

"it has never yet been discovered how to make man unknow his knowledge, or unthink his thoughts"

T. Paine