@alive, thanks for that suggestion. I am a big fan of c s lewis writings but that is one of his I haven't read. While I do not agree with all of his conclusions, he has some extremely ensiteful things to say.

@Phenix, as in fact lewis would say, "The church" (any church), and behaviour of those who follow the church is not reflective of God in the least. I would not confuse the two myself, indeed the church of england basically told my mum to get lost because they couldn't stand the idea of a blind female priest who wanted to minister to disabled children, so i have little respect for the organization. That being said, I have met some very good individual vicars, it's just a case of meeting people one at a time and not judging them by the actions of an institution.

I am not sure myself how exactly the god working "Through" people thing works either, but one thing I do know is that just because someone claimes to work for god doesn't stop them working for themselves or for some other end, history has taught us that religion can justify any wrong, particularly ironic when so many religions argue the oposite.

@nltsave, I'm sorry if I can't just shut up and follow the crowd and accept the christian message "because it's what lots of other people do" or because it's what a book tells me to do, you might as well tell me to go and listen to pop music or like sports. Sorry if you call this pride, I call it living! in fact, if various religious people hadn't done exactly the same thing for 2000 years where would we be now? still with oliver cromwell and the witch finder army or the inquisition or salvation buy paying money to the church that's where.
I can accept that people find comfort in following an ideal, and I admit like a good scheptic that any conclusion I draw might be wrong, however I would please ask for the same acceptance from others. I asked this question for genuine want of knolidge and understanding, not to be castigated for daring to think, ---- indeed if I did! believe that was what God wanted of people I'd certainly not be trying to seak a deeper understanding or a closer relationship to God.

Indeed if it is a question of "Faith" I would ask exactly why I am here trying to gain a greater understanding of something I once knew, rather than just saying "oh sodit! that was a silly childhood fantasy probably caused by my brain releasing endaufins as a result of traumatic surgery" and simply go off to become a complete nihilist.

Perhaps this recognition that I did! experience somethig worth while and wish to recapture it even at the cost of anger is! what faith is, not a belief without proof or a following of a set ideal but simply a recogntion and a search?

I'll have to think about that one.

Edited by dark empathy (10/27/12 12:00 PM)