Newest Members
SuAn, Tranquil, smichael, bushydw, Teddyboy1969
13559 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
BruisedSpirit (44), EyesWideOpen (44), Razor (38), roger (37)
Who's Online
2 registered (2 invisible), 52 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
13,559 Registered Members
75 Forums
70,515 Topics
492,445 Posts

Most users ever online: 418 @ 07/02/12 11:29 AM
Twitter
Page 10 of 10 < 1 2 8 9 10
Topic Options
#517426 - 11/08/17 04:48 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: manipulated]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 2879
Quote:
...I believe abuse victims need some extra latitude on the idea that sexual orientation can not be environmentally altered or shaped.

SmartShadow has shared something quite insightful and true, encapsulated in a simple sentence. There is so much we do not know. A more religiously dogmatic view promises a simple answer that we don't have to think around as long as we accept it - that we know what the natural state should be and it's a matter of choice. I respect the religious perspective here - and for some that is enough. That their truth is not my truth does not mean their truth is a lie. On the other hand, there are many here - like me - that have slipped into quiet secrecy when we have failed to meet that "moral" standard.

But I do not mean to digress. I found interesting the conversation of gender identification, and wanted to throw my own personal perspective in the ring, for whatever it may be worth. I was 14 and already about two years into the perpetual sex abuse at the direction of my older neighborhood "friend." I was still physically quite prepubescent at that point (and, hey - I don't want to imply my parents were cheap, but they got me to pass for all the "children under twelve" rates). My dream was to grow as big as a mountain and have the hide of a grizzly bear. I never got close to my wish, however - and remained slight and only lightly dusted with pubescent through my youth. At one point I did more than resign myself to the submissive sexual role I was expected to assume - and just embraced it. The surrender to that role was profound enough for me to almost remember as a single moment of simple decision, but it was propelled in large part because it defined me as the polar opposite of my abuser.

Looking back, I do wonder if my body went into a kind of hormonal shock. The frequent, exhaustive and sometimes overwhelming intensity of what I went through affected me at a more fundamental level than I believe I could possibly have appreciated at the time. Time brings perspective and wisdom, and it is through that lens that I am starting to understand how deeply this may have affected me - to the point of involving the rate and tenor of my body's maturity. I remained stuck at an edge-of-pubescence plateau for months and months. While I admit I cannot support these perspectives with empirical proof, I am quite convinced, not-withstanding. So I started out wanting to be the Brawny paper towel guy, but that just wasn't happening. And I ended up embracing this softer and more intrinsic girlishness that cranked my abuser's interest in me - not unlike his attraction to his other victims who interestingly enough were all girls. There was frustratingly little I could do to determine my fate with him. But not being him was something I could do. Being his opposite was a definition for myself I could embrace - because while it did not define me as a "man" by the burlier masculine standards I had hoped for, it promised for me small modicum of integrity. I look back and at least I can respect that. I reflect with some pride that through it all, I wanted to be a good boy - and I tried for that.

Extrapolating, I think this conversation of gender identity and confusion got so thoroughly mixed in with our CSA experiences that they will remain forever inextricable. We'll never untie this impossible knot. I do believe, however, that - in my case at least, and perhaps others - the abuse transcended psychological growth to affect hormonal patterns as well. I have read accounts here about many victims who reached an early puberty - and possibly due to similar dynamics. But the more significant truth is clear - as survivors, we became who we had to be to survive. Simple Hollywood thinking might suggest that the perp was strong and the victim weak. The truth, however, is quite the opposite. Our abusers were too weak to keep themselves off of us - to follow any pattern of decency and responsibility. So we had to do everything - with only the toolbox of young boys - to grow around that. Never forget you did that. Our acquiescence was not our weakness. It was our strength.
_________________________
..



Top
#517438 - 11/08/17 10:58 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: Chris4TheMill]
SmartShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 447
Originally Posted By Chris4TheMill
In my case, it was not just from the abuse - it was also from feeling so emasculated around my peers and with girls my own age, not being accepted or affirmed by them as a heterosexual male. Everyone including my mother thought I was gay but that wasn't it and was missing the point, I just needed someone like a father figure, or mentor, or friends, to help me build up and affirm my heterosexual male friends identity at a very crucial time, when that aspect of my identity was being crushed to bits.


First let me say how sorry I am that you had such inaccurate and misleading set of feedback. That's crippling at any age, but man.

I have lost two extremely close friends to homophobia. Once there questing began, my house of cards fell away and their accusations exposed me to the core. And it's not like you can say wait, I was abused. It's like that would have just confirmed that I was a failure as a male. This was a really bad time for me.

Also sorry you didn't have a decent role model. That's an extreme disadvantage.

Originally Posted By Chris4TheMill
at a very crucial time


These words...

A moment in time

A point of development

A point of rejection

A point of trauma

A point of survival

These words are what we are talking about.

We were children
we were children

And then we weren't

then we had to survive.
Survive everything what was just getting started.....

Top
#517439 - 11/08/17 11:15 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: Chase Eric]
SmartShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 447
Originally Posted By Chase Eric
The truth, however, is quite the opposite. Our abusers were too weak to keep themselves off of us - to follow any pattern of decency and responsibility. So we had to do everything - with only the toolbox of young boys - to grow around that. Never forget you did that. Our acquiescence was not our weakness. It was our strength.


Hey Eric, your post has me thinking about a lot of things that I will reference a bit later.

But this though is so very powerful to me. It really flips some of my deeper believes on end.

Thanks for this,
Mike

Top
#517441 - 11/08/17 11:55 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: SmartShadow]
SDD757 Offline


Registered: 10/08/17
Posts: 143
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
Originally Posted By SmartShadow
Originally Posted By Chase Eric
The truth, however, is quite the opposite. Our abusers were too weak to keep themselves off of us - to follow any pattern of decency and responsibility. So we had to do everything - with only the toolbox of young boys - to grow around that. Never forget you did that. Our acquiescence was not our weakness. It was our strength.


Hey Eric, your post has me thinking about a lot of things that I will reference a bit later.

But this though is so very powerful to me. It really flips some of my deeper believes on end.

Thanks for this,
Mike


This is really profound

Top
#517488 - 11/09/17 09:39 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: Chase Eric]
SmartShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 447
Originally Posted By Chase Eric
A more religiously dogmatic view promises a simple answer that we don't have to think around as long as we accept it - that we know what the natural state should be and it's a matter of choice. I respect the religious perspective here - and for some that is enough. That their truth is not my truth does not mean their truth is a lie. On the other hand, there are many here - like me - that have slipped into quiet secrecy when we have failed to meet that "moral" standard.


Well stated. I fully get this.

I went full on religion for most of my life, up until the last 5 years that is.

From my current vantage point, I have had to reject most of my dogmatic thinking to the category of, the blind leading the blind. But I have also found that there's still a lot of valuable truth that I have held onto that was hidden in and among the dogmatic weeds.

I am still a very spiritual person. It's just that I have had to do a lot of carful weeding to sort out the discrepancies of my religious instruction and upbringing. Many teachings were interpreted with strong bias and bigotry and were in clear contradiction to other clear teachings. So much so that it became clear to me that many good people have spiritual blind spots and don't even know it. They have stopped analyzing what they are saying but think because they are more and more passionate that what they are saying is more and more true. Like they have fallen into a self reinforcing loop that just keep getting stronger but has less and less room for rational checks and reflection. The world is full of this type of thing and yes it is very easy to fall into.

I believe that the idea that "Homosexuality equals sin" is one of these loops or religious blind spots. I argue with friends all the time on this one. But there is religious dogmatic thinking in all camps and there certainly has been plenty of soap box certainty on all sides of the debate at times. It's just the more formal religious groups have had a much longer time to prefect it and convenience people that this isn't something to challenge or think about. I argue against all dogma. Not that dogma in and of itself is bad. It's just really easy to beat the drum and never again check to see if it still is making sense in the current age and understanding.

I have seen the use of structured homophobia take over people's thinking and create a pack like frenzy of dogmatic rhetoric that just won't stop. I easily change this and it always leaves them stuck in there silence. The normal protocol is to join in and bash a people group as the cause of all evil. It real make me sad that this goes on in some religious circles. I don't think I am changing and thing by pointing out there fixation but at least they put on a different tone and are carful what they say when I am around.

I may be stepping on some toes, I get that. I am not even saying I am completely right, but I probably am at least some what correct in my thinking.🙂

As for as morally goes, especially around things like homosexuality, we are living in very difficult transitional times. It will take a very long time to influence the inflexible among us. This I believe is a given. Anytime you attempt to elevate yourself at someone else's expense, you tend to have actually lowered yourself substantially. Apparently this is a truth that is very easy to miss.

I believe that we as survivor may actually get to play an important part as our culture continues to transition. After all many of us as male survivors are stuck squarely in the middle of several major societal awakenings. Gay rights, awareness of the epidemic of childhood sexual abuse and human trafficking that continues in our own back yard and around the world. Who better to begin to speak up then us? I think we have a lot to say. And as male survivors have an important and unique perspective on these and many other issues.

If I have causing you or anyone here to slip back into quite secrecy, you have my sister apology. It was never my intention. I bet if it were not for the advancements of the gay rights movement and a lot of these discussions here would not even be able to be happening.

The builders of the original roads rarely get to see the highway that will eventually follow.

Much peace to all concerning these topics. And you

Top
#517543 - 11/11/17 03:57 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: Chase Eric]
SmartShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 447
Originally Posted By Chase Eric
I do believe, however, that - in my case at least, and perhaps others - the abuse transcended psychological growth to affect hormonal patterns as well. I have read accounts here about many victims who reached an early puberty.


This is a profound and fascinating though. I don't doubt that this is possible.

I know for certain that I began to react to my own body. The body memories began to become a permanent part of my flesh, like his touch had been burned into me and was now permanently living deep within my skin.

I remember feeling more and more foreign like I was no longer human, no longer me. I remember becoming increasingly fixated on wanting to be sexual with other boys, not all boys so much but boys that had what was taken from me. Out going energy, contentment, confidence, and who were still self directed.

In there presence I felt the full impact of my sexual and emotional change.

I would have given anything to have what they had. I would have done anything they wanted to be seen by them. I wanted them to do what my perp did with me and I felt like a freak.

My life had been altered. I had been reduced to a rejected, used, emotionally vulnerable and hyper needed sexualized child. I stayed that way for a long time.

It's interesting to think all these changes could have included hormonal and physical changes. Significant and extreme psychological changes are most certain. It follows that others changes were talking place as well.

I bet a brain scan before and after would look profoundly different.

Top
Page 10 of 10 < 1 2 8 9 10

Moderator:  ModTeam, peroperic2009 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.