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#82969 - 04/17/05 06:20 AM I Just saw something really great and important!!! (may trigger)
Logan Offline

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1368
Loc: NY
I was watching the news, Fox News Channel, and they were doing a report on how to deal with sexual preaditors. I think the program was called Heartland or something. Anyway, they brought up some really good issues and ideas.

It was on saturday at 5:00.

They had the reporter, a former sex offender prossicutor, an adult male survivor, and even a 'recovering' sexual preditor. And all brought up seriously good points and basically all agreed with eachother.

Some of the basic ideas where as such:
Having a national sex offender webestry--the current law under Magan's law only does it by state and the offender has to register himself, meaning that its up to him to do so (what an asinign system!). And to make it worse, If the offender leaves the state where he is registered, there is no current law that says he has to register in his new place of residece. They also said that the state where the offender originally was doesn't mind if they change cause they are 'happy to get rid of them.'

Another point that was discussed was what to do with them, after they are released from prison.
One idea was to create 'Colonies' where they would be away from Children and potential victims. and would would live in indivdual, seperate communities with others like themselves.

another thought that is highly controvercial is the Question that "Can they be succesfully treated? Many beleive they can't and therefor should be 'wearhoused for life.' But I think the people who believe this, are the same ones that adopt the BS "Out of sight, out of mind," mentality. --mind you, I could verywell be totaly wrong on the subject, but i think that for most cases, its generally true.

What ever the case on that subject, The current method is NOT working. The show stated a disturbing statistic that only aproximitly 10% of preaditors are ever caught!!!
(This is a major issue that MUST be addressed sooner than later.)

On the show, the main points that wear fully agreed upon by all four parties is that:
1. The current tracking/ monitoring system must have major renovations to it, and all Preditors must be monitored to some degree!
2. All preditors must have a very indepth asessment preformed (of course by someone with the correct level and degree of training and be compatent at it) to asses their level of danger they pose to society.
3. While in prison, They must get treatment, and if the refuse, than the term of release is conditional, hence, if the refuse treatmeant, then they don't leave.

But there is one Extreamly important factor, i believe, that the show did not cover and the best alternitive..... IS PREVENTION!!!!!

I will discuss that subject later in ways in witch i believe it can be implemented and really be efective.

The thing is that I posses so many great Ideas on the matter (I think), but have no way to deliver the message in an effective manner.

I don't think that I could ever stand in front of a group of people and discus this subject and have to admit to everyone that this shit (SA) acctually happened to me, i mean it took me almost 1/2 a year to trust my T.

about being the messenger, I wish it could be someone else and not me to deliver it. But, I do believe that I may be touching on the surface that could turn out to be something great---I mean imagine if it could be done, Preventing the abuse in the first place and therefor the misery and agongy that accompanies it!

on delivering the message, maybe someone who is already a public figure, Ken Singer? Up to the task of representing this view point to the.... Nation?, masses?, public?

Guys, i kno i am starting to sound really redundent here but this i feel is soooooo important that i can no longer keep this to myself, if it can reach and help people. I don't know maybe I'm getting carried away but I really do believe that our view as a society must change before the problem does.

Ok, so here it is. The 'Master Plan.'
First, society in gen. does not like to think about this stuff. It scares them and repulses them and so they'd rather believe it does not happen and if they ignore it long enough, then it will go away. We here at this site know this of course is not true in the slightest.
This attitude MUST CHANGE!!!! I think that society/ the public is ready to see and admit that this does happen and happens a lot! They must if they want to protect their children.
The second part is understanding the monster (not excussing it in anyway, shape or form!) But, to Identify what it really is!
The following may and probly will offend some people.
For that, i'm sorry.
I know their is a ton of theories on the subject of what may cause it, Nature vs. Nuture. Hence is it genetic or do these people 'pick it up along the way.' But, what ever the case, I do generally believe that it is a mental disease (renforced by the abusers own distortions.) I really do believe that these people are "Sick." I also believe that many of them, be cause of diffrent factors, Don't like themselves or what they do and inherently deep down know that it is somehow wrong. I've heard that its not so much about sex as it is control and power and domination. I believe that.

I think that these people for what ever reason, don't feel powerful or feel 'in control' of their lives or just not have as much control over there lives/low sense of selfworth and esteem. So, in order to establish some control, they erotize being with children, rather than adults because they feel that they aren't competent enough to preform sexually with an adult. (BTW, I have done some reaserch on the subject) So they rationalize that what they do to gain power and a sence of control, is ok, that there's really nothing wrong with it. They don't realize how devastating and long lasting the effects of their actions are. This dellusion of theirs is what keeps them on the same path. And, so, they continue to hurt people to receive their instant gratification which in turn re-enforces their behavior.-kind of like a compulsion with a drug addict.

I don't posses any licensed training on the subject, so these expessed opinions are just that, opinions.

I feel that the first step in treating them is to break down their delusion or distortion of truth that what they do is ok. They have to know and realize that it is NOT ok, that it is increadebly damaging and devestating to a persons life and emotional wellbeing! Breaking down their denial is key!

Second, maybe try to understand why the don't like themselves.
and lastly, maybe encourage them to feel strong/better about them selves so maybe they won't feel the need to use children to feel more powerful.

The second Part of this Plan goes as follows: The Prevention part.
First let me say that I think that there are two deffinissions that must be defined and addressed.
Pedophelia, and Child molester. I think that many people think these words are synonomus with one another and therefor they use them interchangebly.
I feel that this is wrong.
In my view, a Pedophile is some one who has an attraction to children, and my fantisize about that, BUT!!,
has Not nesessarely acted on their feelings.
A Child molester,however, has crosed the threshold and acted on there emotions and is therefor a predator.

In the case of the pedophille that has not yet acted on his impulse, I think that he is still posibly reachable, and maybe with some help/treatment he will not cross that major threshold!!!!

Now the tricky part. How to reach him before he acts out.
I think here lies two problems.
1. societies and the cultural standard or norm say that this behavior is unacceptable and will not be tollerated, which is good. But this attitude is a double edged sword because our culture so highly loathes these people, that these people choose not to seek help for fer of being ostresized or becoming the pariah of the entire world.
2. The public does not want to really contemplate the issue and would rather just hate them all to distance themselves from these people and maybe to remove or fight a sence of deep in guilt thatwe all have in common. Now while this approach may be very natural, It cause these Pedophiles even more fear of being exposed and and humilliated which in turn keeps them even more hidden and unlikely to seek help.

I think these publicly held beliefs can be curbed and we can remove the stigma enough through public awareness. One of these methoods could be advertising through the Ad Council---kind of like those anti-drug commercials on TV. They could say something like "If you have ever felt this way, you know it is not ok to act on it, but would like to recieve confidential help and information about where to recieve help etc." The message would be to make the Public face the issue and get these people to seek help.
on the comercial, there could be a 1800 number where the calls would be confidential and maybe a website address where these serepeticious people could feel safe enough to find additional reasorces, kind of like a database or switchboard with numbers of confidential treatment facillities and Practisioners that deal specificaly with those types of problems------I'm sure i we or someone campained for it and premotted it and seggested it to congress, we could definatly get finacial support for it. Maybe other sponsers too.

And who knows. maybe these people could go on and live a close to normqal life without inflicting horriffic pain on others.

Last thing that i'm going to say (I think this may take the toll for being the longest post ever!)
Look, Guys. I don't want to recieve the Nobel Peace Prize, Not to be too narssisistic about this idea but, if one of you guys get it for promotting it, good for you.
I just want it to STOP. I want to put a major dent in the amount of abuse cases.
Please, Ken Singer, or whom ever, Be our voice!


"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

#82970 - 04/17/05 07:28 AM Re: I Just saw something really great and important!!! (may trigger)
Curtis St. John Offline
Past President
Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 1798
Loc: Westchester, N.Y.
Another fact is that 80% of the convicted sex offenders are out on the street.

But this is an interesting topic Logan. The following is from a post I made about a year ago:

Dutchess County, New York, where I grew up, received a grant to do a two-year study on sex offender management to discover how to improve the system and fill in the gaps with a victim centered approach. There are only eleven counties in the entire country that are working on this project in association with the Center For Sex Offender Management . The work we do will influence sex offender management nationally and will possibly have international influence.

There are many committees that consist of people and professionals that range from probation officers to prosecutors, to therapists that will examine every single aspect of offender management. Then as a part of the Victims advocate consultant committee, we look at the information and see where the system needs improvement. I was asked to join when they realized that there were no male victims to give our perspective.

It is our mission to ensure that the policies and procedures of the Sex Offender Management System in Dutchess County incorporate a Victim-Centered focus and employ identified best practice strategies toward the goal of eradicating sexual violence in Dutchess County.

Our goals are:

To ensure that the management of sex offenders in Dutchess County operates from a victim-centered focus.

To educate the community about the impact of sexual violence upon individual victims and the community as a whole.

To educate the community regarding sex offender management and the rights and needs of victims.

To ensure that Sex Offender Management practices in Dutchess County operate utilizing best practices’ as identified by The National Center for Sex Offender Management and The Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers.

To ensure that services to victims are accessible and sensitive.

Our tasks are:

Participate in mapping of adult and juvenile sex offender management and sexual assault victim systems in Dutchess County and ensure that the mapping include questions related to victim centered practice.

Create and implement an operational Victim-Centered Approach for use in Dutchess County.

Provide community education regarding sex offender management and victim issues.

Provide feedback to the sex offender management system regarding policy and procedure that impacts upon current and potential victims and the community as a whole.

Create informational handout for victims’ regarding the criminal justice system and sex offender management.

And finally, to identify and eliminate the barriers, which contribute to the under-reporting of sexual violence.

There you have it.

We have been at this for a while and things are really coming together. We have spun off and started a community outreach committee as well and are exploring why departments are having trouble getting information to the public, how to keep better track of registered offenders, etc

It's a problem... but it's a problem people finally admit is there and are finally working to fix.

Oh, and I almost forgot the most important thing, we are working very hard on education and prevention. The "handout" mentioned above has turned into a "Road show" that travels to different school districts with a panel discussion composed of a representative from every agency that deals with predators... including victims.

Take care,

#82971 - 04/20/05 05:59 PM Re: I Just saw something really great and important!!! (may trigger)
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5781
Loc: Lyons, CO USA
I didn't see this post til you pm'd me as I really have only the time to moderate/monitor the forums I am responsible for.

Roland mentioned a great resource, csom (Center for Sex Offender Management). There is a lot of information about managing sex offenders, treatment, supervision, and prevention. I agree that prevention is a whole lot better than cure.

I sit on three boards of directors/advisory. One is NJ ATSA, a professional org of clinicians, probation and parole officers, prosecutors and victim advocates. Another is NJ CAP (Child Assault Prevention) which brings primary prevention programs into schools throughout NJ and teaches kids to be assertive and learn what to look for before they are abused. The other, of course, is MaleSurvivor.

Treatment for abusers is tertiary prevention. Once someone has abused another, the main mission is to keep him/her from abusing anyone else. Treated sexual abusers have a much lower rate of recidivism than most criminals. (Yes, there are dangerous predators who need to be kept out of circulation, but they represent a very small percentage. The majority of abusers can and do respond successfully to sex offense-specific treatment. If I didn't see this for myself, I could not work with this population for over 25 years.)

Treatment for survivors is important to help them heal and get on with their lives instead of living in pain. A number of abusers were themselves abused as children and adolescents. How many of them might go on to abuse others is not known. (Most victims/survivors do NOT go on to abuse, but because some do, treatment to resolve the issues as early as possible is important from a secondary prevention standpoint.)

Primary prevention is to give information and skills to potential victims BEFORE they are abused. Programs like CAP (which is national in scope and has small programs in more than a dozen countries around the world) work to keep kids from getting abused in the first place.

There is another organization that practices both primary and tertiary prevention, StopItNow! which is linked to this site. People who are concerned about the behavior of a potential abuser ("Uncle Rob roughhouses with the kids in a way that makes me uncomfortable, but I don't know what to say to him or even if my concerns are warranted."), can call 1 888-PREVENT to talk with a professional and ask these questions. A person who is struggling with feelings or thoughts of abusing another can also get advice and a referral to a competent professional to learn what to do to keep the abuse from happening. The tertiary prevention comes from people who have abused before and are looking for help to keep from abusing again.

So, I'm not writing this all to discourage you from your good intentions. I just want you to not reinvent the wheel. Please read up on what the professionals involved in these three areas of prevention have been doing. This field has been very active for more than 20 years and there is a lot of good experience there.

Also, remember that TV is not a good area to get information about complex social problems. Sound bites reduce facts and research into made-for-TV moments which sound good but are often factually incorrect or missing vital information.

As one small example, ask a dozen people from different walks of life what constitutes a "predator". I have talked with psychologists who work with them and they are not always in agreement. Try this with the general public and you'll get a wide variety of definitions.

Be passionate about prevention. There are organizations that might be able to use your energy. Contact one to see what you can do to help with prevention in your area.

While I'm flattered that you'd like to nominate me to be a spokesman, there are folks out there who are doing the heavy lifting. We just need the audience to pay attention to what they are saying.


Blissfully retired after 35 years treating sexual abuse

#82972 - 04/21/05 12:31 AM Re: I Just saw something really great and important!!! (may trigger)
Curtis St. John Offline
Past President
Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 1798
Loc: Westchester, N.Y.
After this came up, I got a gig speaking at the New York State ATSA conference on May 5th as part of the project I mentioned above.

So to see there is a lot of interest in the victim centered approach is very encouraging.

#82973 - 04/22/05 09:42 PM Re: I Just saw something really great and important!!! (may trigger)
Leosha Offline

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
All good points. The thing that bothers me most though, with 'prevention' or 'rehabilitation' of offenders, is that no one can change another person. The conforms of civilized society has not caused them to rethink themself and change what they do. How can I? How can two people or three people, if millions can not? It is like someone who has problems with any other negative behavior. THey will not change until they want to change themself. And I can not make that happen, nor can any other person, except that offender themself.


Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963


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