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#78367 - 06/20/06 01:54 AM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
We turn to prayer when we consider that the only tool we had was prayer.

It is only God who gets us out of life threatening times in our lives.
Sadly, not for all.

The soldier on the battlefield sent there to kill, cowering as he awaits his fate, who does he trust. God has the power to perform miracles.

We can apply God to all inhuman acts of the World today, but we cannot ask God to do it for us.
It is up to us, to believe that we are truly worth being on Gods Earth.

I know there is at least one occasion when I asked God to save me, and he did, torn and battered but here nevertheless,


Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#78368 - 06/20/06 10:00 AM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
jesse7 Offline

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Originally posted by shadowkid:
please let me say that i know you are all trying to help me understand ,and it feels like i am just wanting to argue this god thing but i do not want to .i know that my brothers here are not preaching at me but helping me ,its just that it seems everyone is content to believe that god knew and felt bad but couldnt stop it . does that really make you feel any better?
Adam, yes it is making me feel better. A lot better. Its amazing how meditating for only a half hour each day makes me feel. Its hard to explain but it's almost like I'm not trying to change others but only the way I see the world yet it still changes everything. Is it self-deception then? If it is then who is deceiving who? Am I one or two?

I sometimes want all the answers. My mind is concerned with trying to solve the enigma of existence and suffering. This is why I studied philosophy. My ego wants to know it all and refuses to admit that the unknown is part of life. All I can say is some things are beyond words and just have to be experienced. My wish for annihilation for example is a religious impulse for Nirvana or seeking liberation from suffering. Most people haven't yet experienced enough suffering to actually want to be set free, that's why it is said that spirituality is for those who have been in hell. And that's okay. If a person is an atheist but is quite happy having an 8 to 5 job with two kids and a wife then God bless their souls. There's no race or contest and no eternal punishment either. Real spirituality is about living in love not in fear.

I was once an atheist and hated God with a passion. In fact, I hated him so much that it made me wonder what was I hating if there was no such Being? I can't help but notice the posts and the time you spend in here in the spiritual forum. You are a very spiritual person--a materialist wouldn't even consider talking about these subjects.

Let me tell you a story about a man named Ramakrishna who lived in India during the 18th century. A woman approached Ramakrishna one day and said to him,"I can't believe in these statues nor feel anything in these stupid temples. Prayer is just talking to myself and the images we revere are things we have created and nothing more." Ramakrishna replied, "Woman, God is pure love. Tell me who do you love?" The woman replied,"I love only my son." "Then that love will be God for you. Go on your way now and learn to see and experience that Divine love in all beings and in all places."

I remember one of your earlier posts was called Salvation in the Eyes of A Child. What you experienced in the arms of that little child was Love, or God if you will. God is not a Santa Clause guy sitting up in some heavenly world. Imagine feeling that love you experienced with all people. Is that possible? If I only love my friends and my family then I'm not that much different from a criminal who also does the same.

Personally I don't like to think of God as a celestial dictator. That's why I never had any qualms about sometimes being angry with him. In fact, because God is inside every person it isn't even possible to hate him because God can't hate himself. If I hate him then I really hate me. Once I become aware of this the hatred vanishes. The philosopher Spinoza also mentions this too in his Ethics 5 Prop 18 and further demonstrates that such hatred becomes love.

The fact of the matter is that sometimes people argue over words. Words like God, Father, Divine Mother, Tao, Buddha, Guru, Brahman, etc... have certain cannotations but those words are very limited and can't describe the Power they are actually referring to. So find your own way. Think Higher Power or Presence or the Higher Self or Love perhaps. Whatever works for you.

May you always find that Love my friend.


What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

#78369 - 06/20/06 08:31 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA

it seems everyone is content to believe that god knew and felt bad but couldnt stop it. does that really make you feel any better?
I would like to return to this and say I would not put it quite this way. I don't know if God CAN'T stop bad things, it just seems to me that clearly He doesn't.

What had made me feel better are the people God ahs sent to me to advise, comfort, and love me; they have given me the resources to discover strength of my own, and to realize that if I am to recover the decisive steps must all come from me.

In a way it isn't really a matter of "feeling better", at least not right away. It's a matter of realizing that while there is a lot I have to figure out and process about the past, my recovery doesn't lie there. I can't change the past, and no one can give me the answers I want on such issues as "why". After a time I have to realize that the past has taught me enough that I can move on - to the present.

Once I started working in the present, then yes, I began to feel a lot better. In the present I am empowered. I can decide what to do with my like, and emotions and problems from the past I can work on and resolve.

I hope this clarifies things a bit. And yes, I too think you have a spiritual dimension that you are not recognizing yet. Give that one some thought and see what you think.

Much love,

Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

#78370 - 06/21/06 12:41 AM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...

Jesse gave you some good examples of our inner human strengths of spirituality.

There are many evil people in the World, it has always been that way.
There are a whole load of good people who would put their lives to save another.

Atrocities happen on a daily basis throughout the World, but I think it would be wrong to blame religion or God, in not stepping in to stop it.

When little adam lit up the faces of the kids next door, he was reflecting their innocence of childhood, and he shown a spiritual protection that a lot of people cannot identify with.

Kids have their own radar with those they meet, and they saw you as a very caring person.
Its give and take, those kids loved the trip you took them on, I bet you loved it too.

Nobody can take away your spiritual self, it is you, and yours alone, your unique identity.
You are also identifying it, and letting it lead you out of some of the past hurt.

I am not asking anyone to believe in God, I am no preacher, it is up to you to question your life.
You're a pretty big guy now, and gentle with it, and that is a pretty good trait.

Think about how you have helped guys in here, is that not a spiritual thing to do, to have the ability to hold out a hand to someone who needs your help.

Who else could do it?
Nobody outside of here could, so you have left a positive mark in everything you have done.

You might say God, sent you here to do just that,


Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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