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#77402 - 10/18/04 03:43 AM Re: Losing faith
FastForward Offline

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 188
Loc: US
Perhaps carrying someone as we speak. Anyway, perhaps spending too much time reading prevents a more balanced look at the world. Hence, I appreciate ak's post elsewhere summarizing his good day out there in the world with older folks, animals, friends.

Hope your faith returns/strengthens soon.


L&P - always.

#77403 - 10/18/04 11:26 AM Re: Losing faith
parttimecop Offline

Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 139
Have you read any CS lewis? He talks extensively about the problem of pain and suffering in this world. Basically suffering is because of sin. Sin is basically doing stuff contrary to God's will. Some would add a conscious decision to do something contrary to God's will, but having been in the grips of addiction and depression I am not so sure.

Jesus wept. That is the shortest verse in the Bible. It shows Jesus caring so much that He was open about his sorrow.

I cannot pretend to have all the answers, but I am pretty sure it is by our choices and actions that others suffer. I will give you an example. If I am rude on purpose or offend somebody deliberately, my actions have harmed them. My sin hurts another person. And that is mild compared to issues of abuse and other severe trauma's.

But where there is suffering there is also a chance to care for others and to work to make things better. Look at this world like a war zone. War is said to bring out the best and worst in people. Heroism and barbarism. Laughter and bloodshed. This not to say we should seek war but there are times when to bring out the best in ourselves we must struggle against sin.

And being that beating sin is a hopeless battle in ourselves we must turn to the only one who can overcome sin. There is only one man who ever overcame sin, Jesus. He died, bloody and beaten. For you, for me he did that. Jesus offered himself up in your place, and in mine. Consider that.

As for serving God, I try not to let myself let my intelectual state of belief keep me from striving to further God's will. I will be honest, I am a sinner. I am not somebody to look up to. I am down in the muck here myself trying to help point the way out. I just do the best I can with what I have, and most of the time it feels so worthless and insignificant that I despair of ever doing any good. Yet though I feel as if I make no headway I will not stop.

#77404 - 10/18/04 04:25 PM Re: Losing faith
FastForward Offline

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 188
Loc: US
PTC - Well said. Often we forget the nature of our surroundings. But it is important whose side one is on in this battle. I can follow other human beings as fallible as they are or I can follow the best teachings I have found. The choice is mine just as the choice of how I respond to those who hurt me is also mine. I want to learn to pray for my enemies. Peace and God bless.


L&P - always.

#77405 - 10/18/04 08:13 PM Re: Losing faith
Dan88 Offline

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 247
Loc: DC
Hey Marc,
I believe that god is in each one of us. I'd love for there to be some guy up in the clouds ready to hurl lightning bolts at those who hurt others. But obviously there is no God in that sense of the word, or he'd be kicking ass and taking names.

But I do believe God exists in the spirit that moves each of us to act kindly towards others, that causes us to respect one another and help and protect each other. God is in whatever it is that causes this hunk of rock to grow food for us.

It's up to us to keep searching for God and expanding God's influence in the world. So when we're confronted with the misery and obvious lack of the thunder-bolt throwing God, we have two choices. We can pray that somehow this mysterious God will show up in the form we want and start making things right. And of course based on experience, we know that isn't going to happen. Or we can take action ourselves in our own way and become an agent for God. My old sponsor used to tell me I didn't hear God correctly because I spent a lot of time praying for a miracle when what God was calling for was for me to take some action.

When I look around and see all the problems of this world and I realize that we mere humans can only influence things a little bit, I think that's a reminder from God that I better get started making what difference I can, because their ain't no lightning bolts on the way.

#77406 - 10/18/04 10:14 PM Re: Losing faith
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
God has no power of the actions of mankind.
When I was small, I had a set of rules, rules of good, I was respectful, didn't steal etc.

We all have the choice to be good or bad, the majority of us are good, but the bad element causes so much havoc it destabilises our lives, society is jolted.

In the movie, the butterfly effect, it shows us that if we are good, we move others to be good, if we are bad to others, it may cause them to be bad.
This is the heartbeat of the World, effect begets effect, a bit like cycles.

It would be better to see the World run by good people rather than the bad leaders we see running it at present,

I hope

Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#77407 - 10/18/04 10:24 PM Re: Losing faith
markgreyblue Offline

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
Marc - I can't speak about faith very well -
I wasn't really taught except for force feeding
the crayons on sunday school coloring books.

I think faith is very individual - your faith in god has been there - your faith - your belief in something has more power than what a church or whomever has ever told you - that is what I believe -
the optimism will return for you Marc -
For now know that you can have faith that we are here for you - and that is a kind of faith -
a kind of answer - that there are islands of good
and safety?

be well Marc - I feel like you get so down on YOU when things aren't what they should be - YOU take it on as a problem about you -
that's just my sense -

YOU are OK
- there are just these answers we have to know sometimes - not knowing them is not wrong -
---being told that you shouldn't ask is ---

love you Marc-


" not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous


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