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#76515 - 09/16/01 09:31 AM Does God really care ?
matt Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 23
Loc: Perth, Australia
Hiya Everyone,

Been reading some of the posts and decided to add my own thoughts... the funny thing is that this is something I've been struggling with myself for the past couple of weeks... although I've only been aware of exactly what's been going on for me over the last few days.

I've grown up in a christian home, went to church, became a christian at 6 years old..
Then was abused from 9 to 14 by an older cousin.

My problem is this:
If God really does care about me, why didn't he do anything ?
Mentally I can understand that we have free will (and that free will is needed for true love to exist) but that doesn't satify my heart or dull my feeling of betrayal by God.

So what do I do...

Not believe in God -
I can't do that 'cos nothing else makes sense of why this world's here without God. The "Big Bang" doesn't cut it. I'd need more faith to believe in that then God.

Believe God really isn't Good -
But then why would he sacrifice Jesus / himself for us ?
And why would he talk to me so specifically about what to do next in my path of healing ?
And why am I so healed now, only 8 years after my abuse stopped ?

Believe God isn't all powerful -
But if he can create the world, he can stop one boy from abusing another.

None of these logical reasons can reach a conclusion.
I'm just left with the facts:
- God talked to me about what I should do to be healed from my abuse, I did them and now I'm so far from where I was.
- God answered prayers, he gave me the friends and support I needed.

So I just can't deny him !
But does the fact that God has helped me so much in my healing cancel out the fact that his conscious negligance let my abuse occur in the first place ?? I will never be completely healed from that... and no amount of being "thankful" to God... and that he "saved my soul".. will wash it away..

But the other day a friend of mine told me that she was abused too !! I just cried and was heartbroken and somehow I said to her something that answered my doubts to!
Jesus came not just to save us from our sins... but to heal us from the sins of others... and the healing process isn't something that can be completed on this earth where evil still reigns.
In revelation God promised that those who love Jesus will be given new bodies and live in a city on a new earth where God lives with us...
That is the only hope that makes it alright.
One day I'll have a new body that doesn't remember abuse, that doesn't react when I don't want it to, one where my emotions are balanced and controllable...
You see I believed that God let me be abused and that the scars that I have from that abuse will never be erased...
And they won't be erased in this life... (although I have had a lot of healing...)
But they will be erased in the afterlife when I get a new body... I will be completely healed... to the point when it was as if I was never damaged !
I was putting God in a box !
Saying that he couldn't and wouldn't heal my abuse completely.... basically saying that my abuse had more power than God did !

I know God really does care !!
And I know that there will come a day when I will be complete and whole .... not just "healed"... but completely renewed...
Jesus didn't just come to save us from our sins, but to make the way for God to renew and restart...

That's the only hope I have that satisfies me intellectually and emotionally... God might have let my abuse happen for the sake of free will .... but he knew that the damage done he could undo... that it was just temporary... that Matt wasn't distroyed or emotionally crippled forever...
That one day I would live eternally with God... and I would have a new body.. and after 1000000000000000000000000 years with God and his love, my 5 years of abuse would fade into insignificance... and die.. along with all the other evil that shouldn't even exist...

Well that's my two bits worth...
What do you guys recon ??
Matt \:\)

#76516 - 09/16/01 05:25 PM Re: Does God really care ?


I recon that you are already healing and that you are doing a nice job of coming to grips with some pretty powerful stuff.

It is my belief that all that you need to make you whole and happy lies within, for this is where Spirit resides. Certainly there is a lot to deal with given unfortunate circumstances in your life, but the pure, life-giving inner light that dwells within each of us is what connects you and I and everyone in the universe. We need only be still and connect with it (which isn't always easy!).

I am so heartened by your post, Matt, for it says to me that you are healing, you are taking control of your life and that the spiritual essence within is a beacon for some of the rest of us who need to hear stories of struggle and yours.

We're in this together, and your letter is reaffirming.

Dynamite Don

#76517 - 09/16/01 07:58 PM Re: Does God really care ?
blacken Offline
Chat Moderator

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1860
Loc: Northern Ohio
I'm glad u weren't emotionally cripled or destroyed. Good for you, really. But some people are. Ther is 500 or so of us members here. There are many, many THOUSANDS more out there. How many are cripled, emotionally, sexually, physically? Its great that God has helped you, but that just pisses me off all the more. Not at you, but at God. Is god good, or do you have to play by His rules to gain His help. "Praise be to God!" For what? Getting fucked up my ass while I screemed & pleaded for help. Begged God to help me. I promised to do anything, for his help. Its a promise I would have kept. what answer did I get? Fucked again. So to HELL with GOD, because He isn't the Good God I was taught about.
Does this all make sence? Probably not. Do I give a shit right now? Fuck No. Im busy trying to stay alive and make a living, a life.........

#76518 - 09/16/01 09:40 PM Re: Does God really care ?
matt Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 23
Loc: Perth, Australia

Don, thanks for you comment. Not too many people (espically guys) consider their spiritual sides in their healing.. I'm glad to see you do.

Blackleaves, I am emotionally crippled.. I still feel nervous in public toilets, I still have an overwhelming need for male affection, I'm still attracted to guys...
I'm not saying that God has completely healed me... 'cos he hasn't... I'm saying that I look forward to the day when he will... after I die when I get a whole new body... then I will recieve complete restoration...

But I can understand what your saying to the point where my eye's are watering... and I know that no amount of explaining or text is going to help at this moment.. all I would do is give you a hug, let you cry on my shoulder and listen to you and quietly understand...

Here's a bit from my diary... I hope you can relate.. I feel this is the best I can say ..

5th Jan 2000

I HATE THIS... all those stoopid things, I don't want to worry... it pisses me off.. I'm sick of being a whiney child.. I hate being volnerable and soft.. I hate getting hurt... I hate constantly getting hurt.. I hate trusting God and still life is stoopid and hard and all fucked up !! I hate worrying about stoopid things... I hate being so needy for male affection... some pathetic little crying boy or stoopid little puppy dog... following males around hoping to be accepted... I hate being not in control.. I hate not being who I want to be !! I want to be hetrosexual totally !! I hate being attracted to guys.. I hate my body and the way it reacts to being around guys.. I hate God for not healing me... and I'm tring to serve him and won't have the money for a counsellor so I'll never get healing 'cos God is doing piss all up in his stoopied heaven...
"What are you doing up there huh ?? Sucking that enormous fat thumb of yours ??"
"Derr I don't knkow how to run the universe... I'm so stoopid !!"
Whats going on Lord this is all fucked up.. I hate God.. I hate myself.. I hate my fucking sin... I hate it... I hate not being able to do anything about it !! STOOPID FUCKING LIFE I HATE IT ALL !! Lord I can't live like this any more, tell me what to do !! I can't stand this I need your help... what do I do WHAT ?!?
"It takes time"
Well I've waited long enough... I know you can damn well heal me so why don't you !! ... OH ITS FUCKING CHARARACTOR BUILDING... WELL I DON'T FUCKING CARE ABOUT FUCKING CHARACTOR !!! FUCK !!!

#76519 - 09/17/01 01:19 AM Re: Does God really care ?


Between the words and the lines of type I see real change between your journal entry of January 2000 and your recent post to this forum. Oh I don't have the answers (who does?), but just reread the two passges and revel in the difference. You've come a long way in your recovery, my friend!

Be gentle with's coming!


#76520 - 09/18/01 10:03 AM Re: Does God really care ?
blacken Offline
Chat Moderator

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1860
Loc: Northern Ohio
Hmm. Well. I am NOT really a heartles bastard. If you would have met me, U wouldn't suspect my inner termoil. It is just that I have found a place to speak my mind, which seems to change often. I read every post. And if it stirs up emotions, I try to write it down. It is an act of freedom, liberation, to speak of "it". "it", is years years of torture, humilitation, etc I was forced to suffer. And I am very angry in the God I was brought up to believe in. The God im soppose to have a "personal relationship" with. A God who care & hears Every Ones prayers. This is one place I can feel & express my anger, at God, or dear ol Dad. Ya sure, therapy too, but thats only once a week. MY relationship TO God is a very angry & distrustfull one. I understand the ideas presented around here of "free will", but that just doesn't seem to fill in all the pieces...........

#76521 - 09/18/01 05:47 PM Re: Does God really care ?
Just Call me J Offline

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
OK, let me put it another way, then.

Stop looking for God in a thunderbolt from the sky, or in a burning bush.

Look for God right around you.

In the people around you.

When you see humans helping humans, with no gain for themselves, you are seeing God's love.

There is this joke that has been putting around in my brain, related to this.

A priest was walking along a road through the rain. The waters of the river had risen, and the priest was up to his ankles.

A car passing by pulled over, and the driver asked, "Padre, need a lift?"

"No thank you. The Lord will provide for me."

The driver reluctantly drives on.

The water gets deeper; it's up the priest's kness. A pickup truck coming along pulls alongside the priest.

"Father, get in! I'll take you to higher ground."

"No need, my son. The Lord will provide for me."

The driver looks at the priest, but sees his resolute face, and drives on.

The water is above the priest's waist. 2 guys come along in a motor boat.

"Hop in! We'll get you to safety."

"You don't need to trouble yourself," the priest tells the men. "The Lord will provide for me."

The 2 men look at each other, but move on.

The waters rose very quickly, and it wasn't long before the priest drowned.

The priest stood before the Gates of Heaven, confused. "Lord, I have served you faithfully throughout my entire life. I clothed the naked, fed the hungry, and healed the sick. Why didn't you provide for me?"

The loud booming voice of God responded, "I did provide for you. I sent a car, a truck, and a boat."


I realize that this only answers one side of your issues, BL. Because in the joke, God actually says that She sent help to the priest. I don't know how to answer that one.

But I do believe that we musn't discount the contributions of our fellow human beings. That kindness comes from somewhere. Call it what you will, but I think that it is divine in nature. We can choose to follow it, or not.

God's love is within us. I've been feeling it all week long, and it has gotten to be overwhelming at times. I have shut down my emotions for so long, that this much good feeling can be too much.

We are loved by God, no matter what we do. God is waiting for us to see Her. God wants us all to come to Her. She is patient. God wants us to do the right things. And God's grace is always available, if we are truly repentant for things we've (intentionally)done wrong.

(Next time I write about God, I may use "It" instead. The last time I wrote about God, I didn't use any pronouns.)

We're in this together.


We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

#76522 - 09/20/01 01:21 AM Re: Does God really care ?


I agree with many of the things that you have written and appreciate your acknowledgement that God is in each of us. We can see the work of Spirit in a beautiful sunset, in flowers and trees and the eyes of those around us...and in a mirror!

When I look into the eyes of a man whose spiritual, inner light is rekindled with the freedom borne of identifying and facing the demons, I feel a tremendous oneness with that person and with the Universe. This love and acceptance and feeling of peace really "does it" for me.

Don't get me wrong (I know I sound like the head of the Department of Sunshine and Rainbows...!), our struggle is genuine, but so is the peace that results once we have moved past a difficult spot in our process.

Some believe in a heaven with golden streets and angels on clouds playing harps. I believe that heaven is not "out there" somewhere else. When we are fortunate enough to connect with others with whom we walk life's path, and when, together, we are once again made whole, it is that love that produces miracles in our daily lives.

Each of us who is hurting is struggling to heal and to become whole. It is the process of doing this work - and supporting one another - that gives a common bond with the potential for transforming lives (including - and specificlaly - our own!).

Most of us have had pretty awful things happen to us in childhood. There is certainly the opportunity to feel deserted or abandoned by God. But believe it or not, in each of the posts on this forum I can read between the lines and see Spirit at work.

Have I got this figured out? Hell no! But I do have knowledge that there are miracles happening to and around me each day...and that is enough to convince me that however one defines God, there is some amzing force at work in our lives.

YOU are helping to make miracles in my life and I am being made whole by your presence and participation in this forum. I say, "Thank you, thank you, thank you!"

Dynamite Don

#76523 - 09/20/01 06:58 PM Re: Does God really care ?

Hi, guys. The issue of faith and God and Spritiuality, etc. is one that we all struggle with. I know that I, too, have felt rage at God for seeming to have abandoned me and alloed the years of abuse to happen. I have had mixed feelings and many, many questions over the years, and still do.

I have no answers, nor do I believe that I can tell anyone how to find God or to believe in a God or higher power of any sort.

I can recommend a book that was helpful to me not so much because of any answers it provided, but because of the many new questions it raised and the perspective it presented. It is called "Why Bad Things Happen To Good People," written by Rabbi Harold Kushner. Thought the author is a Rabbi, the book is written for anyone - Jews, Christians, Moslems, Budhhists, etc. and was a national best seller for years. I found it very helpful, perhaps you will, too.

Good luck to all of us on our journey to find healing, inner peace and serenity!


#76524 - 09/29/01 02:13 AM Re: Does God really care ?

All we need do is to look into the eyes of a child, marvel at a sunset or enjoy the splendor of colorful fall foliage...and then we don't have to keep asking whether there is a God...

Connecting and communicating with this awesome power of the Universe..this is our life's work, isn't it?


#76525 - 09/29/01 10:00 AM Re: Does God really care ?
Neil Offline

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 81
Loc: Millersville, MD, USA
I went through so many emotions concerning God over the last 30+ years. Anger, confusion, unworthyness, and many times I felt like God just didn't care. I think I felt that way because I felt like I just wasn't worth caring about. The conclusion I have drawn (right or wrong, I don't know but it works for me) is that God cared for me so much He gave me the creativity, stamina, fortitude & insight to make it through the horrible things that happened to me and become a functioning adult with a promising future. Since there is "free will" in our world, there is evil. We have fallen victim to that. If you're reading this post you made it through to the other side and I feel strongly that God played a large part in that. This is just one man's opinion but like I said before, it works for me. I hope this helps a little.

#76526 - 09/30/01 12:34 AM Re: Does God really care ?


I like your perspective....and I happen to agree with you!


#76527 - 10/09/01 10:28 PM Re: Does God really care ?
Just Call me J Offline

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 204
Loc: Inland Empire, California
Still12, I'm so glad that you have a reason for hope. But why do you have to wait for it?

Terrible things have happened in our past, and so they have colored our present, but that doesn't mean that they will always color our future. God has given you the gift of life already! You can make something beautiful with that life, in the here and now, and doing so will only make the next life sweeter!

The things that I am most proud of in my life, came out of doing the things I am the least proud of. Success can be brought from failure, and as the events of 9/11 have shown us, positive changes can come from the most heart-wrenching loss. Life is a precious thing, to be cherished, savored and enjoyed, not to be lugged about as a burden!

OK, where did all that come from? Why the hell am I so hopeful?? I'm still sick to my stomach from all the world news I've been reading, and am frightened by the gnashing of teeth and thirst for blood I see in my fellow countrymen. The hope that I had built over the past 3 weeks, as I saw a president I don't like make the deliberate and thoughtful moves necessary to bring a hatemonger to justice, were dissipated like the smoke from the missiles we fired. I know that the armed conflict was unavoidable, but I really didn't think it would start this fast. And the reactions to it are alarming to me.

This is getting kind of eerie: out of the depths of my fear and uncertainty, I manage to articulate ideas that may have never come to me otherwise.

We're in this together.


We're in this together. - Nine Inch Nails

#76528 - 10/17/01 10:41 PM Re: Does God really care ?

Hi to all,

I am glad for this forum as I would not be where I am today without my faith and belief in the Lord God, his only Son Jesus Christ and the indwelling of his Holy Spirit in my soul.

I was abused at age 15. My abuser was seductive and violent all at once. I lived as a victim for 20 years before I could even begin to utter what had happened to me to another human being. Was God there when my abuser approached, seduced and then raped me? Yes he was. I had accepted Jesus as Saviour when I was 7.

From that point on my life had became hell. My sexuality was all screwed up. I lost my innocence. I no longer trusted men. I hated my father and mother. I stuffed my pain with compulsive masturbation and pornography to the point where I became addicted. I was defensive, sarcastic, acid tongued. Was God there? Yes he was there everytime I masturbated. Every time I bought porn or went to XXX movie or bookstore. Every time I shredded someone verbally. I was never arrested or publicly humiliated as I should have been for some of the lewd acts I committed in public.

My sexuality was screwed up to the point where I struggled and struggled over whether or not I was gay. In my mid to late 20s I attempted to live out the gay lifestyle. Acceptance only when it came time to hop in bed, but otherwise rejection, loneliness and self-hatred pile higher and higher after each encounter. In my gut I knew that I wasn't gay, but I was driven to have male-male sex. Was God there? Yes every time I got into bed with a strange man and had raw unprotected sex with him. I should be dead from AIDS or worse by now from having sex with all those guys and never wearing a rubber. I still have yet to test postive for HIV.

When I was 35 I would awake in the night soaking wet from cold sweats and screaming at the horror which was so deep, so painful, so unbelievable inside of me. Was God still there. Yes he was. Almost within 24 hours of when I thought I could no longer go on with my life the phone rang and very dear friend said God came to him and said I needed help. He gave the number of a minister who was the first of many counselors who started me on the road from being a victim to being a survivor.

For nearly 15 years I served God as a foreign missionary in Africa. In AFrica sources of porn were not to be had, but I constantly fantasized about any good-looking man who came my way. I was like a pressure cooker ready to blow at any moment. On the fateful morning of Jan 17, 1996, something snapped inside of me and I had a nervous breakdown. Why would the Lord take me to the heart of Africa only to have me fall to pieces? Was he there? Yes, I never once thought or tried to commit suicide.

Once back in the states, my addictions to porn and gay sex came roaring back. I found two new delights: the internet and phone sex. Both were safe, anonymous and could be totally controlled by me. Phone sex proved to be even more gratifying than the real thing. No worries about disease or wondering if the other dude is a wacko or not. But was God still there? Yes, the work of the Holy Spirit in my life kept knawing at my conscience telling me that my private life was dirty, sinful and totally unpleasing to God. Privately I hated myself and the secret life I kept from those who saw me as righteous and God fearing. I knew that my acting out with other men, even on the phone and my obession with gay porn or any porn for that matter was sin.

Another day as fateful as that one in January, was on June 15, 1997. I was discovered and confronted. I had been at our main mission headquarters in the US, and my illicit use of the internet to access porn was traced to me and to me alone. I had never felt fear and shame as I had that day. And God would you believe, was still there with me. After admitting to all the accusations without making any excuses, I said something to the effect that it's all over and I will leave. My confronters said we are here to restore you not condem you.

The last three & 1/2 years have gone like this. For two years after my confrontation I was in intesive therapy and accountability. I was starting to see for the first time the depths of my sin and my depravity, but could I really change. Would I always be just a survior and not more than a conqueror as promised to us in Romans 8:37. Would I always just have managed chaos?

At the end of 1999 I found myself back in the smalltown which I had left 26 years previously to which I had vowed I would never return. Away from all my support team and therapist, I soon fell back into old patterns. Phone sex, internet porn and new thrill, the soft homo-erotic porn images in men's fitness-clothing mags. I would go through cycle after cycle of this, vowing this would be the last time and would then get my act together. NOT! As incredible as it may seem, in all my depravity, God stuck to me like superglue.

In June of this year, my life began to move from being just a survior of sexual abuse to one of being a true conqueror of my shame, my abuse, all the sinful acting out sexually, my gender, my hatred towards other men, my hatred of women, the hatred towards my father, the hatred towards my mother and most of all the hatred and vows I held against God blaming HIM for having such a fucked-up life.

My road to conquorership began when I found the NOMVS site on the net. At last there were people who knew and understood what I had been through. A fall retreat was planned in Sept. and I signed-up immediately. In that three day session, I was able to deal with so much of my shame, fears,and phobias that I left more baggage than I brought with me. Years of feeling inadequate and defensive were vanquished. The shame that I had held for so long no longer had any control over me. The defensive nature by which I had survived was no longer valid. My heart grew. It could accept love, because I could now give love without fear of rejection.

Also in August i started seeing a new therapist, who just wasn't empathetic and encouraging of my situation as those I had seen in the past, but had been down many of the roads I had travelled. And yet, here was a man who was more than a conquorer, he was living a spirit filled life with all the blessings that God had intended for him since his birth. And too, he also had to live with all the consequences of his previous unrepentant life. For the first time I felt that I too could experience what my therapist was having.

Then in Oct, just two weeks ago, I went on another weekend retreat this time for four days in eastern PA. It was at this gathering that the Lord then began to work in ways that I had never thought to be possible. It all began with coming to the Lord and humbly admitting that I was nothing more than a man of broken promises. That as a child a of God,I had produced nothing but a string of brokeness that needed his healing. Also all who attended were instructed from the very beginning, to get out of our survivor-recovery mode of thinking and to begin seeing the big picture.

The big picture being, that God's love has never changed for me. And that as his creation, I am able to both give and receive love abundantly. And when I do such, then I will desire to do God's perfect will and not my selfish, self-centered ways of doing things. I came away from that weekend wanting craving the love of the Lord more than anything else. There is nothing within me or creation that can fill that deep hole, that deep, deep need, all those wounds other than His perfect love and grace. And it is by grace alone that I now have peace and contentment for the first time ever in my life.

It is not peace or contentment that the worlds wants, but only what the savior can give. It goes deeper, because when I have a bad day, I don't run to porn or masturbation any more, I run to Jesus, the author and perfector of my soul. And it is only by his grace that I can fend off the evil one and live for him.

So, was God there when all the shit happened in my life. You bet!!! Did he betray me? Never! Was I betrayed by sinful man? Yes, more times than I can count. Was my parents, God, the milkman who drug me down to the porn store for a mag or a trick? Or was it they who made my fingers dial all those numbers for phone sex? Never! Did I have a character flaw and refused to take responsibility and ignore the consequences? Yes, everytime.

And yet, the Lord loves me all the same. His love for me has never diminished and it never really had increased, because he is eternity and his love is constant. I am afraid of Osama or anthrax? No way. My God is bigger than any person or germ.

Enough already. Amen and God bless you all.

#473991 - 12/24/14 09:44 PM Re: Does God really care ? I think so. [Re: matt]
victor-victim Offline

Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 6379
Loc: 𝒪 𝒦anada
dear matt,
i believe it is ok to express your pain and anger to god.
god is big enough to handle your accusations.
i raged against creation and cursed my creator many times.
i shook my limp wristed fist at the sky.
i blamed and blasphemed.

god, my loving parent, tolerated my toddler temper tantrums.
i was an infant, in the eyes of the infinite.
i was no threat to the allmighty.

eventually, inevitably,
i ran out of rage.
i finally stopped complaining long enough to hear
the quiet calm voice of peace.
the still and small words of love.

i had to learn to listen very carefully.
i had to fight the urge to argue.
rather than resist and reject,
respond and react,
repeat and recycle,
i reflected and reconnected.

"And, behold, JHVH passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before JHVH; but JHVH was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but JHVH was not in the earthquake:
And after the earthquake a fire; but JHVH was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice."
1 KINGS 19

"My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing."
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God."

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

"Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die."
"What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? "



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