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#72733 - 09/08/04 03:19 PM Re: Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner
cogito Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 16
Loc: CA
Originally posted by jimrh:
How do you guys react and respond to:

"Hate the sin, love the sinner"?
I hate this stupid sentiment. Like most things religious, I find it completely mindless. I'm Atheist with a capital A. One of the few accomplishments I'm proud of.

edit: Seems to have been a conversation stopper.

#72734 - 09/24/04 11:38 PM Re: Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner
Brayton Offline

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
Seems to be but not. I've just been away for a while.

This phrase, these days, conjures up a great many related instances of bigotry.

For instance, why aren't a majority of citizens appalled by the suggestion that the Constitution should be undermined with a rights-denying amendment?

How can they not see that it won't stop then? Where a crack is made, a hole soon developes and pretty soon the whole thing is in shreds. First, they shred the Bible and now they are after the Consitution.

My forebears came here before the Revolution to escape religious persecution in Europe.

The proposed amendment is exactly that, I think (religious persecution). It is essentially an adjunct to the hate-sin-love-sinner phrase. As such, it would confuse the Consitution and open it up for all sorts of undermining, fascist additions.

Why not establish Christianity as the official state religion then? Isn't their committment to that evidenced by their claim that the framers of the Constitution and our "founding fathers" were believers in G-d which isn't I think universally true and is certainly not true in terms of belief in a Christian G-d.

Confusion is their tactic. This is what happens when there is an uneducated or poorly educated electorate. The Consitition is based on the maintenance of an educated electorate more than on G-d's will, despite what they say or how they distort what was originally said and written.

Accepting rigid judgements is far easier than learning to comprehend what freedom and human rights are really all about.

Sometimes, things just won't work the way we want them to.

#72735 - 09/25/04 09:52 AM Re: Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner
cogito Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 16
Loc: CA
Confusion is their tactic. This is what happens when there is an uneducated or poorly educated electorate.
Not the least confusing is the metaphysical commitment behind the phrase. How can you hate the sin and love the sinner, since the sin only "exists" as an human action. And they don't hate the idea of sin, in fact they're quite attached to it. So they must propose a Platonic, abstract Sin, sin as it exists in itself independent of the world; for in the world, sin is always a human action, even if that action is just a thought. It is this metaphysical stand point that I take as an abdication of the responsibility involved in personal ethics.
Myself, I don't believe in the concept of sin.
Plato asked whether something was good because it was loved by the gods, or was it loved by the gods because it was good? There is no good in itself, independent of good things, actions, etc.
The same mistake is made with the idea of sin. Qualities are intrinsic to their physical matrix.

#72736 - 09/25/04 08:44 PM Re: Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner
slumberjack Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 4
Hey peeps... I finally got around to checking out male rape survivor communities. So anyway having been roofied by a guy years ago...I took the "Hate the sin, love the sinner" as a rape related statement and not a perspective on homosexuality itself. for me my reaction was that its not a bad perspective to me in the context of my experience. I have long had homosexual tendencies in me but rather than exploring them, I got raped.

So I hid these tendencies away as they were so non-consensual. Lately I have been coming out of this ancient depression, of which this was only one trauma, and before I get too ancient and less hot - which thankfully I am still a 35 yr old hotty, plan to party a little bit in the homo way. However I am way way too picky and super sensitive about how nice this guy is gonna have to be. So I have been going back into my subconscious dumping grounds and it clearly leads to this rape.

Point being, whatever kind of place holder I have in my head for this guy who drugged me, if I can let him go and stop seeing him in relation to every other horny guy that may really work for me. So hate that he was an asshole that was too weak to try seduce me on fair grounds, but love (or forgive) the weak human being that he was and move on. Its a path out of solipsism.

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