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#71912 - 08/20/03 03:23 AM Re: Vatican slams gay marriages
abcd Offline

Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 189
Loc: GA
I haven't been here in months and months, but this is a topic dear to my heart. As a professed, practicing Catholic (and more importantly just a professed Christian), I do have a tremendous respect for the Church (including the Vatican heirarchy). I was very disappointed by their statements, but as a Christian, I am also heartened by what I know to be true: Christ was a rebel-rouser when he was on earth, and this is a time for us to prove to the rest of this world, how Christ is indeed in us.

I find it very interesting, to say the least, that so much of today's rhetoric against stable, gay relationships (i.e. marriages) are similar to those made in the past at the time of civil rights. Even the backlash for now is what was encountered with the civil rights movement (indeed, how appropriate that Dr. King's relatives back the gay rights movement). Back to the the church heirarchy though...well, how long have many predicted the doomsday messages, and how long have many tried to argue using the slippery slope argument, only to have found themselves later recanting their words. The history of the RC certainly has evinced apologies from the heirarchy (as treatment of Nazi victims, treatment of Galileo, treatment of native peoples), and I believe this will be one of those times.

The key I think though is for those who have known us for years to just be good people and the like (knew us before our sexuality) to be testaments to our truly "good" nature. So often many in the public have these perceptions of gay perverts (and I admit there are many who are) that it paints their whole judgment. As painful as it may be, I suppose that when we are ready (and I believe we have to be careful here for those who are not out and especially as abused persons), we have to stand up for ourselves and prove to those who would seek to judge us that we are NOT the stereotypes.

Anyway, that is it. That's my 2-cents (all I can say for now, is go Episcopalian Church!--I know that Christianity will be moved to a new phase of its growth...we simply have to be patient, persevere, and like with our abuse, NEVER give up). God Bless : )

#71913 - 08/20/03 04:53 PM Re: Vatican slams gay marriages
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I think that in all the rhetoric by organizations and secret deals and instructions what becomes clear is that society fears the unknown and that this fear becomes an irrational rejection of anything that is outside the "so-called" norm. As well there are bigots, racists and downright liars (who are hiding their own secret feelings).

As a young person growing up I had several friends who were gay and saw them being torn apart by their double lives and the slurs and comments of others. I have also seen the bravery that they have shown in coming out and feeling free.

I see no reason why people of any sexual persuasion should not be able to live in a conjugal relationship. And it does not matter what it is called; marriage or whatever. The important thing to remember is that the relationship involves love, understanding, compassion, joy, sharing, caring, etc.

Now as far as I remember that is exactly what Christ, Buddha, Mohammed have preached. Love thy fellow man. But when that damned beauraucracy gets involved the take everything as being literal.

If humanity discovered a live Loch Ness Dragon we would surely kill it to see what made it live and by destroying it would feel secure and superior.

I find it truly amazing the lengths people will go to protect themselves from others outside the "Norm".

I think this hold true with survivors of SA. Society , in general, believe that we are not normal and while voicing concern would rather not deal with us or our problems. Because we are unknown. By doing this they continue to protect those that have preyed on us and continue in their destructive ways.

But thank god there are places like this and others in society who are rising up and saying "What the hell is normal anyway". It is nothing more than being yourself and being free to choose and to be safe in society and feel like you belong.

My brothers whether we admit it or not we are all "NormaL"; we just have a big pile of shit to deal with. And we are from all sexual persuasions, religios beliefs, and racial origins. But most of all we are brothers who share, care, enjoy the company of, hope and dream. Now didn't I write that someplace else. Hmmmm. ;\)



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