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#69042 - 07/23/05 03:47 AM Two gay teens executed in Iran ***TRIGGERS***
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA

I was surfing a popular gay web site when I say the headline:


It was horrible to read about this. I follow news out of this country as many of my friends and co-religionists are Iranian.

From what I read, the two guys were 14 and 15. They admitted having sex with each other, which was enough for them to be executed. In addition, they spent 14 months in prison (surely that must have been hell) and then each were given 228 lashes before being hanged in "Justice Square" in Mashad, Iran.

An even sadder part of the story is that the two teenagers were also accused of raping a 13 year old boy. Since it was not mentioned by several more impartial sources for the story many observers feel that the rape charge was added to the trial to help justify the torture and murder of the teenagers by the Iranian government.

There was another story about a couple of gay men being executed for consensual homosexual acts in Saudi Arabia. But I didn't read it. It's just too heartbreaking to think of the individuals being legally murdered and their families being left to mourn. And for what?

I bring it all to this forum because of the allegations of rape that were made against the two teenagers in Iran. The rape charge was not necessary to have them executed. Simply being gay is enough for that.

So much of what kept me from discussing or disclosing having been sexually abused was about fear of being called a homo or queer. Homophobia plays a big role in the role of denial of male sexual abuse both in the individuals abused and also in society in general.

These examples in Iran and Saudi Arabia are the product of the same kind of homophobia; only there it is officially sanctioned by the state.

Following this article was a section for reader comments. The remarks that struck me were from a man who said, "If those two teens did rape the 13 year old, then they deserved what they got.".

I thought that was really chilling.

I wondered if the comment came from someone here at MaleSurvivor! I just can't imagine condoning the torture and execution of these two teenagers, yet here's someone who seems to think that's what they deserved "IF" they had committed rape.

Of course, since the whole episode was in Iran where torture is endemic, we have to assume that anything the teens might have confessed to was coerced.

I guess what I really want to say here is that there is another side to sexual abuse--I've heard it called "sexuality abuse". That's where people, men, women and children, are abused becaue of their sexuality.

That's also a lot of what happens here in the States; fortunately gay men and women have finally achieved a minimum of legal protection--at least against torture and execution.

Lots of other kinds of ostracism and condemnation are still practiced by all kinds of very influential people. Strange, many of them are also extremely religious, just like their cohorts in Iran.

Isn't it weird that religion would advocate torturing and killing people because of their sexuality? I'm talking about women being stoned for alleged adultery, men and boys being hanged for being gay--how on earth can anyone justify this?

Part of the reason that I finally came out of the closet--all the way out--in my religion (which ironically originated in Iran) especially, was that I felt that by remaining silent I was participating in the type of hatred that ultimately leads to teen agers being hanged for having sex.

And I don't want any part of that.

My heart goes out to the families of those poor kids.

Sorry to be such a bummer--guess it's good to be reminded that such horror exists in the world, so I can be grateful that I am spared from it in my own life.


"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

#69044 - 07/23/05 07:35 PM Re: Two gay teens executed in Iran ***TRIGGERS***
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
dwf, Jasper,

Although there are strict laws about this in every Middle Eastern country, homosexual sexual behavior is common throughout the area. It is almost always predatory and not "gay" as we would understand the term, amd the usual view is that one is not a "fag" so long as you are the active partner.

You are so right to point out the problem right at home Jasper. I think it is good to take every opportunity to stress how bigoted and wrong such prejudices against gays are. Sometimes I wonder how my gay friends cope with this on a daily basis. One thing I do notice is that the warmth and sense of humor of my gay friends is fantastic. Want absolutely to laugh yourself to death? Go sit in a roomful of gays who are on a good roll cracking jokes. \:\)

I don't mean to suggest that the answer is just to "laugh it off", of course. It's a serious problem, and I admire the courage with which so many gay people cope with it.

Take care guys,

Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

#69045 - 07/24/05 10:35 PM Re: Two gay teens executed in Iran ***TRIGGERS***
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
I need to amend my original post a bit. After reading other reports, I should say that though we know the two young guys who were executed were teenagers, it is not known what their exact ages were. The ages of 14 and 15 given in the original topic thread cannot be verified, however, the fact that they were teens is known for sure.

Another thought that has come to me while reading here, is how dangerous it can be for the government to have so much power over the sex lives of their people.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely." I believe that is the familiar quote.

With so many survivors clamoring for more government intervention and regulation of child sex offenders, I am sometimes troubled by the thought of the power of the government being increased in that way, but then instead the power being used to hurt me or other innocent people.

I would never want to spare any sex offender any punishment that they merit, but perhaps I am troubled by the thought of governemnt authority abusing its power granted to help fight sex offenders and instead using it to persecute sexual minorities.

In fact, that was certainly the pattern in the past with male homosexuals being viewed as public safety, public health and national security risks.

I guess also it is the charge of rape that was levied against these two poor gay teenagers that makes me take pause and wonder.

Is more prosecution and heavier penalties and the call for retribution against any one suspected of sex crimes placing gay men and women and transgendered people at risk of false charges and imprisonment here in the US?

I wonder if we stop to consider what we are doing when we advocate giving more power and authority over our sex lives at a time when the mainstream government is so anti-gay?

I think that most of the conservative, fundamentalist, right-wing supporters of our current President would certainly consider any male homosexual as a type of 'sex offender'.

There are many ways to help stop the scourge of sexual abuse. Stopping it is what is important.

I just wonder if giving the local, state and federal governments more power and more authority is really the safest and best way to do it.

It reminds me of that old joke, "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you!" at which the terrified populace turns and runs.

I'm sure the people in Iran felt very justified in killing those two gay teenagers. I'm sure they thought they were fighting against sex offenders by torturing and killing two of their own children.

I never would wish to be associated in any way, form or fashion with anything remotely seen as condoning or approving of such actions.

The possibilities for causing incredible harm to innocent individuals are great when religious dogma and civil authority are unleashed against sexual minorities.

Perhaps this will be an unpopular way of thinking, but I've been somewhat of an anti-government kind of guy since I was a teen in the sixties and i guess I still remember Nixon, and Reagan and how they abused their power.

I don't want to be a part of that ever.

These are really just some thoughts and musings here, so feel free to comment. Just be nice, please, ok?

Thanks, guys,


"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

#69046 - 07/25/05 06:34 PM Re: Two gay teens executed in Iran ***TRIGGERS***
sophiesdad Offline

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 462
Loc: Florida
The more repressed a society is the more abusive the laws seem to be. I have a friend who is middle-eastern. He traveled to Turkey many years ago and was amazed that after dark, the street was filled with only men. He said they all accuse each other of being "queer", but yet they don't hesitate to have sex with each other behind closed doors. Is there some sort of double-standard there? It IS sick that a government has so much power and authority. The whole story just turns my stomach - you think that we are moving towards a mature and open-minded world - and then something like this hits you square in the face. And there are those who preach "tolerance". BS! What about "understanding" and "acceptance" (even though we may disagree)? I'm sorry that I sound angry, but it just really gets me super pissed off that things like this exist in our world against ANY group.


There are no unresolved issues - they just didn't resolve themselves the way we would have liked. "Grinder and Bandler - Neuro-Linguistic Programming"


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