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#69032 - 07/21/05 12:32 PM Re: Gay Porn vs. Gay Erotica--What Do You Think?
medicb4 Offline

Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 71
Loc: Sweden
The same applies to "straight porn" and my overexamination has gotten worse since

1) My wife has discovered her past - she has done lots of things she didn't *want* to do.
2) My daughter arrived - all the "porn stars" are somebody's son / daughter.

OTOH if a guy like Ron Jeremy can be such a success then there is hope for all of us to find our niche.

Courage does not always roar. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "I will try again tomorrow". -Anonymous

#69033 - 07/21/05 04:32 PM Re: Gay Porn vs. Gay Erotica--What Do You Think?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA

I probably looked at as much porn as anybody else, and to be honest, for a long time I didn't see it as a big deal. If you don't like it don't read it - period. The people in it are getting paid, no one is being hurt, etc., etc.

But then a few things happened. One concerns a friendship I mentioned in a previous post to you Jasper. I had a gay friend and housemate in university who came out and immediately lost most of his friends and was absolutely rejected by his family ("what have we done that you would hate us this much"). He was devastated of course, and I got to see close up how badly a young person - or anyone I guess - can be messed up by things that are not his fault and really start walking down a road that leads to enormous hurt. My friend's feeling of rejection and worthlessness got him into a lot of what I thought were dangerous sexual adventures in New York (this even before AIDS), and he came close to abandoning his studies and getting into porn himself. I quickly lost that crazy idea of porn as victimless. I know porn stars are paid, but many also get into it because of devastated self-esteem and then get tangled up in drugs and other traps that keep them going.

The other thing is what medicb4 refers to - I had two kids. Having innocent children relying on you and trusting you even with their lives is a wonderful but awesome experience, and as they get older and you start worrying about them getting into sex, alcohol and drugs, then yes, pretty soon you realize that all those "stars" were once kids like yours.

In deciding what I wanted to tell my kids about porn, I had to think back and answer some of the questions you raise. I think what interested me in porn was, of course, the utter naughtiness and sensuality of it. When you are young you want to break free anyway, and porn calls out to you and says this is all the really wicked and hot stuff you are missing. But mainly porn is about fantasy isn't it? How many of us ever had the bodies of those people? And how many of us were that well endowed, or had such babes (or hunks) climbing all over us. I had a number of girlfriends before I settled down and got married, and I never did 90% of the things I saw in the magazines! It's just masturbation fantasy.

The other thing I discovered (or thought I discovered) once I got into relationships based on genuine love and affection is that porn misses that entirely. Porn is just about the gratuitous sex side of things. So maybe that is what makes porn seem so cheap - it is cheap!, in terms of values at least. It dismisses from the very beginning any idea that sex expresses any emotion other than predatory lust.

This has more or less defined what I have told both of my kids, now 21 and 17. I told them that I know they will be curious and that is a normal part of growing up, but when they see these things on the Internet they need to know that this is just fantasy and not what a relationship is about.

Personally I do think there is a moral consideration to porn, in that a lot of people who get into making it are enormously damaged by it. But people are also damaged by alcohol and I am not against that, and I know that the farmers who produce the coffee on my desk right now were outrageously underpaid for their labor.

Maybe it is a matter of how many battles you want to fight and how important they are to you, but I don't get into blame or judgment games about porn, especially not with friends. I guess my view is that it's legal in most places, and people can take it or leave it. But when we do have a go it's a good idea to remember that it isn't victimless. Personally, I don't think I have ever met an 18-year-old who is mature enough to make the decision to get into porn, but that is what the law says and a boundary has to be drawn somewhere. I think it's a huge mistake for a young person - or anyone - to go down that road, but I suppose the bottom line is that society has decided that at this age we are responsible for our own choices.

Like a lot of things, porn isn't something I get emotional about - it isn't a terribly urgent issue for me so long as we are talking about consenting adults. I don't blame anyone for being interested in it, and I can understand that the fantasy aspect of it is attractive to some people. I don't blame smokers for smoking or drinkers for drinking (which I do anyway); I would just say let's be clear about what is going on.

Porn can still be arousing for me to some extent I suppose, but mainly I find it amusing and vaguely absurd. Oh well. \:\)


Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

#69034 - 07/22/05 01:53 AM Re: Gay Porn vs. Gay Erotica--What Do You Think?
ForeverFighting Offline

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1253
Loc: New Mexico, USA
I suppose a lot of guys go to porn for entertainment. That wasn't why I went. I went to find something, that one guy that would show love to me. That's why I try not to go there. It's looking for something deep and finding something shallow. I'm not one of the guys who likes sex for sex. I want sex for closeness, and there's no way to find that connection, that intimacy in porn. That's why it was such a letdown for me. I'd search and search the web for that perfect guy with the good heart to give me what no man had ever given me. I'd look at couples trying to tell if they really loved each other or if somebody was making them do that. You can tell when it's not working for them, and that bothered me that they were making themselves do something that obviously wasn't working on its own. I could see it in single shots, too. The guy who was smiling but didn't seem happy. I felt sorry for him. Porn always led to MB, of course. Surely that guy in the mirror would show me the acceptance and love I needed. And then it was over. And I still wanted somebody to love me. So it was either go back to the porn and start all over again or try something new.

That's why I banned myself from porn. It was searching for something on film that can only be found in real life. I still am occasionally drawn to the excitement of porn. I mean, who wouldn't be? But I'm in a "I'm going to get well even if it kills me" mode this year, so I'm trying to force myself to get out from behind the TV or the PC and meet real men and real friends who will appreciate me for who I am in real life. It's working for me. I want to feel loved in the real world, you know?

"This search for the truth--it's not for the faint of heart."--Goren on 'Law & Order: CI'
"The former things will not be called to mind, nor will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17


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