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#66883 - 06/06/05 09:09 AM Re: yet another new friend of a survivor
Wifey1 Offline

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380

I have to apologize it took me some several days to get the "guts" to read your posting. I am so glad that so many others stepped in to give you some insight.

Since you have been reading awhile I dont need to explain a lot of my own story.
I'm not out to rain on your parade - but my gut just "shudders" that something is waaay wrong with what you've been thru.

He keeps the "extra female" - I was glad that Dave mentioned (paraphrased) that perhaps she was the one he could do the rotten stuff to, keeping you upon a pedestal so that you do not fall and shatter into the porcelain he seems to keep you as.

Have you asked him if he is "using you" to heal himself until he can get to a point in his life that he can be brave enough or "healthy" enough to leave even you behind? Taken from you what he needed , or what stands out at the end to me -- forced you into a position that YOU end up making a decision that HE has no guts to do himself.

Perhaps he does not want to be with you long term, yet has no way out of feelings of not just so many yrs of history , but of feelings of obligation of the "true unconditional" love you have given all these years.

A guilt that has him frozen, unable to stand up and make a choice for himself. Abused or not, he must, as all of us be responsible for HOW we treat others in our lives.

Is he asking you to make the "rules" of the future so that perhaps he will then "know for sure" what rules to follow to have a successful relationship? Or is he asking you to make the "rules" so that it can be something so black and white he can then say guilt free -- I cannot live by these rules there fore we cannot go on.?

I know I am asking more questions than giving any insight. Far too late in my 18 yrs of marriage I found out that my hubby not only needed me to be the "one in charge", but was also constantly angry at me for being in charge also. How fair was / is that to me? I couldn't win. Can you? if placed in this position he puts you in?

I hear of your wonderous relationship, yet in the end the truth is, it isnt all that wonderous. (I am not trying to be mean, i am at a loss for better kinder words at this time).

Dear CupCake, Please know ... forever in this relationship it shall take two of you to make even the simplest decisions.

The sexual contact -- will be an area of your relationship that will consistently change and grow and move and morph. Some of what you share I get the impression that he perhaps is placing more responsibility on YOU for his own mixed sexual feelings. BUT, YOU should not be punished in anyway because of WHAT he is unable to process yet.

I know the greatest key that helped my own spouse and I get thru one of our toughest times sexually was writing down what was "safe" sex for us. From details of HOW to be touched, when to the point that now with very little prompting we both KNOW the lights must be on at least on dim.

I do agree that I think he is testing you, but if you dont know your being tested thats not fair to YOU!! and testing himself. But what do YOU get from this relationship? WHY, do; you accept the pain of him being with another female whom he is probably very much having sexual contact with.

If you are questioning yourself of the time you have vested him in all these years as a possible "waste". Please remind yourself that you HAVE gained, knowledge. Not just of him, but of yourself.

What is it that YOU need to live and survive with?

so i am here. i have never cut anyone out of my life before. never. no matter what and i do not feel it is fair to either of us if i do. we both need each other and want to share each other's lives. but clearly we both have different boundaries and needs in mind.
this was toward the end of your posting. No it may not be fair to cut him out of your life. perhaps not fair to him -- but in your life, YOU must come first. So be FAIR to YOU.

If you cannot be strong for yourself then you cannot be of help to anyone else. AND there is a FIRST time for everything.

I hope I have not been too harsh in my words cupcake. But I must say this: had I known all the details of what my married life would have contained, especially these past few years with dealing with his SA & SO issues. I seriously doubt that I would have chosen to marry him.

He must do this himself, YOU cannot teach him anything. YOU are not his savior, no matter how devoted you have been to him and how much he has shown his gratitude. HE either needs to step up to the plate and finish committment to this relationship, or end it.

May Peace Fill Us All, Sammy

#66884 - 06/06/05 10:33 PM Re: yet another new friend of a survivor
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA

It really boils down to how do you love someone who believes himself to be unloveable? And is there really unconditional love? How can my love for him be unconditional, if I am asking him to do certain things for me in return?
Your first love has to be yourself.

Wifey said something in her post that I really only hinted at in mine--

Have you asked him if he is "using you" to heal himself until he can get to a point in his life that he can be brave enough or "healthy" enough to leave even you behind?
When survivors are caught up in this shame mode, they don't like their life-- and by extension that means they don't like most things about their life. Your friend is acting out with you and with his girlfriend-- and if his relationships can't move beyond that level of acting out into something emotional and honest, he's going to wake up one day, realize that he wants to stop what he's doing, and leave the both of you behind.

I have read about so many people here who have played into a survivor's sickness in the name of unconditional love, and been rejected along with the rest of the sickness when the survivor decides to move on.

If you think that you can't love this guy without being in a relationship with him, well that is a condition, isn't it? Unconditional love is caring about another person's well-being and wanting to see him thrive and achieve, no matter what decisions he makes. I love my boyfriend and I want to see him thrive, even at the cost of our relationship; I'm not kidding. We have shared a home and a family and a life for close to a decade, but if he would truly be a happier, healthier, better person away from all of that, I would let him go and move on with my life and be 100% happy that someone I love is loving himself enough to make healthy and honest choices.

And what's more-- I deserve to BE in a relationship that is an honest and healthy choice made by two people. So do you.

#66885 - 06/07/05 07:44 AM Re: yet another new friend of a survivor
Cupcake Offline

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 39
hey everyone.....i just got home from work and am digesting all of your thoughtful comments. Thank you--your candor and honesty is why I spoke up finally. I am going to keep thinking in my cave. I have not spoken to my friend in a week now; and I suspect he is waiting for me to contact him. I will, eventually, but I have yet to resolve how to approach him and what I intend to say. Until then, I will leave him to wonder as I keep thinking. The silence feels better than having to speak the words I know will hurt us both, no matter where it leads us.

#66886 - 06/11/05 08:28 AM Re: yet another new friend of a survivor
ak Offline

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491

I am here to read of this, as we talk some in chat room few nights ago. I do not do good with long posts, I have hard time to keep attention! And it seem the relations between you and your friend, they are quite confused. I hope that you will be able to somehow protect yoruself of hurt, but still be someone he needs and trusts. That is something very hard, for both persons I think. I wish to you good luck, and perhaps will be able to talk with you again. Also, as I say in chat, if ever you read something I post in section you can not respond, I do not mind you PM to me and ask me things. Is ok.


#66887 - 06/12/05 02:05 AM Re: yet another new friend of a survivor
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Until then, I will leave him to wonder as I keep thinking. The silence feels better than having to speak the words I know will hurt us both, no matter where it leads us.
I wonder if that thought was in the back of your mind when you wrote the first post?

Sometimes we do have tell people we love the truth, however hard that is.
It's how we keep our sanity and self respect, and the truth is that your sanity and self respect must be your first priority. It's very easy to become co-depedant and take on someone elses pain, and it's equally very easy for survivors to hand it over to anyone who'll carry it around for us.
But that's our responsibility.


Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#66888 - 06/14/05 06:59 PM Re: yet another new friend of a survivor
Cupcake Offline

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 39
Good catch Lloydy. It made me think. He is the only one who ever suggests that ending our friendship might be better. It has never been an option for me. I never suggest it to him. So it makes me think that when he suggests it, he might also be testing me with it, thinking I might just bite and abandon him. It has never been an option to me, and the last two weeks confirm that it is not what I want.

So here's the update. It's been two weeks since he and I have talked on the phone. He initially emailed me saying we could talk about things, but then changed his mind and said he didn't want to talk about this anymore and wanted to enjoy his upcoming weekend. So I said good idea, I needed the weekend to myself too. It's now been two weekends. I sent him a text message a few days ago, saying "I would like to talk to my friend. Please let me know when I can do that."

The response was "so now we're back to the friend thing?" I replied, "you haven't answered the question. And besides, when were we ever not friends?" No response.

Three days later, I try to reach him at the office. I called not knowing what in the world I wanted to say, just that I wanted to say hello. He told his assistant to say he'd call me back. No surprise that he did not call me back. I think I called, expecting that, and needing to see if that would happen. I know he's now in self preservation mode and this confirmed it. Mind you, he's never shut me out like this before, so it feels like a combined test and punishment.

So the glutton for punishment that I am, I send him a text message asking him to meet me at this cafe we go to. Two hours later, he replies "No." And we exchanged a few more messages. I asked if he had planned to call me. He said he didn't know. I told him that of all the ways I thought of that he could hurt me, I didn't expect him to ignore me, and that neither one of us deserved this. He said I caused it. Ouch. I understand why he thinks that, but he has no idea yet what set me off.

I thought to myself, at least the silence is broken. I know he is hurt by me as much as I am hurt by him. At least I got a response, because no response was worse. To me, these are signs of him obviously feeling hurt and betrayed by me, because I think he is now questioning how safe he felt with me before. And on another hand I say the fact that he is responding at all means he doesn't want to lose me any more than I want to lose him. The terms may not have changed, and we're both still in our respective corners. I came out of mine, and he's peeking out of his.

And so the story goes........

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