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#66227 - 05/14/03 11:41 PM Me and Sugar
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
There's a few very sad posts here at the moment, relationships on the brink of failure, partners who are understandably confused and frightened.

I can't defend other guys, survivors. I don't know what happens in other peoples lives.
All I know is what happened to me and a bit of experience.

The thing I feared all my life was rejection, and the main thing that was likely to cause that - in my mind - was my abuse.
I felt it was my fault, I enjoyed it and all the other shit they told me. I believed their lies.
So it was a certainty that my wife would believe the lies as well.
I didn't even know how to lie myself and make it sound as though it wasn't my fault. That's a weird concept as well - but I had no framework or anything to alter the story of my abuse so I appeared innocent.
I could lie for England - I was acting out with other men ! but I couldn't figure out what to say, what angle to use, what to tell or what to hide.

Eventually I spat it out, why that day and time is still clouded in mystery, but...

At the time our marriage was dead in the water. I did just enough to get by - a quick kiss now and again, I said " I love you" at least twice a day for heavens sake ! I did minimal houswork and jobs, I sat watching crap on TV all night, drank too much and was generally useless.

My wife, convinced I was having an affair, retreated and let me get on with it. She did nothing in return - why the hell should she ?
So things were bad.

But we still hadn't descended to hateing each other, in fact we still loved each other but didn't know it. So we didn't argue and fight, we just ......existed together.

So I told her one day that I'd been abused, sat at the kitchen table with my cold dinner in front of me, a couple of weeks before out 25th wedding anniversary.
I was scared to death that I'd be shown the door on the one hand, and not giving a f**k on the other. The marriage was dead.

So the choices of "the door" or "rejection as a pervert" were much the same I guess. As long as I went with my Jeep and record collection I was prepared for anything.

Well, almost anything.
The one thing I hadn't really considered was acceptance and understanding. My best bet scenario was carrying on as we were I think.

We had to go out that night with friends so an hour after I uttered the first words we were out and acting ! But once home again we talked for most of the night. Probably more than we'd talked for years.

The rest as they say is history.
We have NO secrets and I tell her what's happeneing in my head as best I can at all times, and she tells me.
We're never going to be the carefree 18yo hippies sat in the sun at the Reading Pop Festival watching Rod Stewart stoned out of our trees ! Or the blissful 21 yo's we were when we married. I've re-hung the wedding picture though.

But we don't care any more, I'll never know how much I hurt her by keeping my secret all those years, what about acting out ? how much hurt was that ? too fucking much I know.
But it's gone, it's history. We move on.

I've said before that the most hateful phrase in the English language is "I told you so." I hate it, and thankfully neither of us has used it once.
No matter what hurt we feel we share it, but we keep blame and recriminations well out of it.

I've done enough of that for myself, I don't need other peoples. I know she feels the same.

We did nothing wrong, not me - not 'Sugar'.


Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#66228 - 05/15/03 06:14 AM Re: Me and Sugar
serafina Offline

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 36
Loc: Washington
Lloydy-That was a beautiful post and thank you for it. It is so wonderful to hear happy endings once in awhile. I admire you for your courage to tell your wife after all those years. It must have been very scary. My boyfriend and I have been apart for 6 months while he tries to get through some of his issues. He is scared and I hope he finds the courage to get through it. You are a very lucky man and so is your wife, but I am sure you both know that.


#66229 - 05/16/03 01:52 AM Re: Me and Sugar
stpbb Offline

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 103
Thanks for sharing that story. It is really helpful to hear your comments and see another point of view. Knowing that it is possible for some helps, even if my relationship never gets there -- I guess it helps my rage against the abuse.

I don't know if it makes sense, but part of the real hurt is my sense of horror at the effects that the abuse has had not just on my bf, but on our relatinoship. So just as it helps to read stories of those who are recovering and overcoming the abuse, it helps also to read about relationships that have made it through.


#66230 - 05/16/03 05:49 PM Re: Me and Sugar
Freedom Offline

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 164
Loc: US
Lloydy - This is truly "for better or worse". Thank you for sharing. Freedom.

Life is moving on. AM I?

#66231 - 11/13/06 02:30 PM Re: Me and Sugar
lostcowboy Offline

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 798
Loc: Rhode Island
Bumping this up for Selene.
Selene, you need to talk to Lloydy before you make any major decisions. I haven't been where your husband is, but I believe Lloydy has and his marriage survived. Lloydy has talked about this many times, but our search engine is messed up, and this is the only one I could find for you!

Take care,

"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

#66232 - 11/13/06 04:49 PM Re: Me and Sugar
selene Offline

Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 221
Loc: midwest
Thank you very much, Clifford, for finding this for me (and whoever else it may apply to). And Lloydy, I'm very happy for you and your wife that you've worked through this and somehow put your marriage back together.

The thing is, he told me about the abuse a mere 3 years into our marriage. That was almost 15 years ago ... and before the "infidelity" with the man at work. I didn't react well initially, that's true. No, actually I was very sympathetic about the abuse and was willing to talk about it and everything and be understanding and so on. I even talked him into going to therapy ... but he went once and came home angry and refused to go back or tell me why.

What I didn't react well to was his sexual experience with his friend, which lasted some time (and was only the tip of the iceberg in that department). It didn't make me mad that he'd done it, it made me mad that he'd lied about it for so long.

From what I can tell, Lloydy, you were having sex with men while you were married, please correct me if I'm wrong ... I'm no prude and I'm not rigid when it comes to sexuality ... I experimented as a kid with other girls and I can't say as I'd turn down an adult same sex experience if the chance came up with the right person ...

Most of our marriage has been hell for me. I honestly don't know why I stayed except that maybe it was easier than leaving. When I read what you said above ... the quick perfunctory kisses, the lies and all ... it just feels like a nightmare to me now ... but like one I've woken up from.

The betrayal of an affair I believe may be too much. But perhaps it's a good thing. I don't know ... I've felt I've loved my husband and just wanted him to love me too ... I don't really know now. I know he fears rejection from me. He fears everything from me, it seems. But he didn't fear it from the guy at work ... or the men in the Navy or whoever else he's been f*@&ing.

I know he fears a divorce more than anything, but I really don't understand why. Why stay in a marriage when you don't want to be with the person you're married to? And when you WANT to be with someone else.

I'll never have a penis, nor strong hairy legs or rippled abs. I don't have the very things he is so attracted to and the only thing he has found any sexual fullfilment with. And yet he says he wants to stay married. Or he said he did, but wants some kind of commitment that I'll stick with him.

It just makes no sense at all to me. I was molested for years. I know it screwed me up some (look where it got me), but he's not even totally stable right now. When I confronted him about the man he worked with, before he admitted it, he blurted out loudly, "No one will ever believe you!" And now he says he doesn't remember saying it. Obviously, it was totally illogical.

For a number of reasons, I can't divorce him for at least a year or two. But I do have the urge to very quickly do a few things to distance myself from him ... namely, having my own short affair ... not as revenge and not even to prove I'm attractive or anything ... it's just someone I know who's made passes at me for a long time and I call it a "distancing f@&%." It seems to make him mad that I would consider it. Why in the world would it make him mad? I've been faithful physically, although I did have some intense flirtations myself ... including one I would have taken much, much farther if I'd had the chance (as in some kind of long term relationship ... not just a fling). But he knew about those and acted as if they meant nothing. Before he knew, he said he'd leave me if I ever did what I ended up doing ... but when he found out I had actually done it ... hardly any reaction at all.

I didn't say I hated him ... I'm sure I've said "I told you so!" a million times but over inconsequential things.

I'm concerned for my health and have asked him to get an STD screen.

I do care about him. But I have to care about myself a little bit as well. I've always tried to help him. But when I started having a problem (the effects of the anti-anxiety med) he never once reached out to help. He did what I asked, but never took the initiative. I've always taken the initiative when he seemed to need help.

Lloydy ... I don't think it will help my mariage stay together, and maybe it shouldn't stay together, but I'd love to talk to you via PM ...

Thanks for listening (I'm sure this is nearly incoherent).


"And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye." ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupery from The Little Prince

#66233 - 11/13/06 04:53 PM Re: Me and Sugar
selene Offline

Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 221
Loc: midwest
PS ... just to be clear ... I've been 100% faithful to our marriage and not cheated with anyone, male or female ... Fidelity was/is very important to me ... as is honesty ... and I gave both and got neither in return.

"And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye." ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupery from The Little Prince


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