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#65483 - 04/14/03 07:26 PM Is it an excuse or is he really working on it?
PAS Offline

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Hi - yet again I'm feeling that familiar exhausted, sick and nauseous feeling after being treated to a barrage of insults/anger from by SA bf. This time, he pretty much pulled out all the stops - insulted me for my "issues" (I have abuse issues myself), told me he didnt want to put up with my "shit" anymore, that I had a problem, that I was weak, whiny, needy, and a "stalker" (I wanted to talk about the fight that started yesterday - wanted to build some bridges today during lunch hour so I drove down to a restaurant nearby his office and asked him to meet me - its not like I went to his office - he had the free choice to meet me there or not (The urgency - I have to go away on a business trip tomorrow was not comfortable just leaving things until I came back).

Apparently the source of his anger was a) I decided to get up too early and mop the floors (7:30 am) which woke him up and b) I didnt show enough gratitude for his assitance trying to help fix the windshield wipers on my car and c) I was getting a bit tired of his monopolizing my tv/couch by his hockey watching habits (we dont live together, he doesnt have a TV) and wanted to discuss it and work out a more mutually acceptable schedule.

And the result? Both yesterday and again today he made me into the most evil, horrible villain! He cursed, swore, told me to go fuck myself, and even told me to go away, told me he never ever wanted to marry me, and then dumped me (for about 5 minutes until I asked him if he "really meant it"). I tried so hard to be strong and not get upset and try to hold my ground but he just got so hurtful and then I started crying and then I got so angry - I know I should contain myself but how much can a human being take?

I know that he acknowledges that he has a problem, and he is signed up for an anger management group therapy program for abused men(he's on a waiting list) but I'm definitely suffering from this - lost productivity at work, back pain, heart palpitations, insomnia. Is his "anger problem" just an excuse? Can he really have "no control" over it? I find it hard to believe that anger can just "come over" someone and override their conscious mind. I too have abuse issues but I have NEVER EVER been that cruel to someone. I've never called a BF names, rarely sworn at them, and certainly never gone for the sensitive parts that I know were tough to expose. Is his "anger problem" just an excuse or should I trust that things will get better? Every verbal abuse site says "dont stay with an abusive man things will just get worse" but he is in therapy - but still, these issues keep blowing up!!! How can he say he loves me and then do such horrible things? I am just devastated - I've never seen him so abusive before.

I dont know how to let him know the impact that it has on me and get him to stand up and do the right thing. Its almost like the shame of what he has said and done overtakes him after the fight and instead of "being there" to apologize and try and make things right, he wallows in his "poor me" I am so ashamed I did such a bad thing" routine and can't even talk about it! And then he even wants me to support him because he's feeling so bad - after he's called me every name in the book and cursed at me for half an hour straight! What kind of a human can get over that shit right away?? I certainly cant - and then there's another reason to keep cursing and insulting me!!

As mentioned - I'm a victim of verbal and emotional abuse from my dad and it just sends me back to the feelings I've had my whole life. And yet I keep going back for more. I just feel so trapped right now - after fights like this walking away and staying just feel like equally crappy choices. Even after his apology I just cant get his words out of my head - they are just ringing in my brain and I'm just sitting here at my desk, choking back tears...

What I'm mostly ashamed about is the lack of my own dignity - after someone says such horrible things to me why dont I have the fucking guts to just walk? What the hell is wrong with me - am I that screwed up that I just must love this abuse? What the hell is wrong with me?

I'm such a g** damn sucker that even after the big argument I waited until he was calm to give him a hug and tell him that he would be ok - even after he proceeds to tell me that he never wanted to marry me and that the relationship "was over"! Some cheap piece of change I am!

#65484 - 04/14/03 10:49 PM Re: Is it an excuse or is he really working on it?
Ivanhoe Offline

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Dear Pas,
God, your post went right to my heart. Here my wife and I have been married all these years and I started getting really verbally abusive with her. I suppose that I had reasons, in my own head, but certainly most of the rage came from family background. We have finally sought out couple's counseling and we think that there is more than just a chance. We are committed to one another. We are learning things like, Collaberative Thinking--thinking things out together, and knowing about boundaries, extremely important if a couple is to thrive. Losing my wife was not an alternative for me. If your friend won't go with you--the counselor should be someone you both appreciate--then, maybe, it is time to say.........goodbye. There are some wonderful women out there who are hanging in there with some of us guys--and I consider you one of them--but there may come a time when you great gals have to consider themselves number one and walk away, if necessary. I hope that that doesn't sound too harsh, because I feel for your guy, too, but you can't be a punching bag. You may have to set the boundaries for him, and let him know what it's going to take for you to be a couple. All the best to you and know that you have given more than your 100%.

"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

#65485 - 04/14/03 10:51 PM Re: Is it an excuse or is he really working on it?
teimosa Offline

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 33
Loc: LA
hi pas,

I don't know if anything i say will give you some perspective, but here it goes anyway.

My belief is that sometimes people pick fights on purpose. I realized it one day when my bf and I were having a discussion which escalted into an argument (we were on the phone....3,000 miles between us). It was something really simple but it turn into me being a liar with unrevealed postions and no really committed to our relationship. He hung up on me 2 or 3 times (I called him back). The whole thing probably lasted 4 hours. He sat there and said some really mean things to me (he went as far as to tell me that the only reason I fly all the way out to see him was for sex) I was really hurt by all the things that he was saying to me. Somewhere in the back of my mind (even though I was exhausted and angry...he was literally repeating "all you want is some dick" for like half an was really ridiculous) i kept thinking that this really didn't make sense and I just needed to stay calm and logical. I kept telling him that I loved him and wasn't leaving. It kinda sounded like i was repeating some kind of mantra. At some point, I don't know how, i was able to flip the>
Peace and and light

#65486 - 04/14/03 10:58 PM Re: Is it an excuse or is he really working on it?
Sick Puppy Offline

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
I am kind of torn here because I don't think that you should have to stay in an abusive situation but I also understand it from your bf's point of view because I have done similar things. Sometimes I get too frustrated and angry (often with myself rather than another person) and verbally pick a fight with a friend or my partner. For the most part they are usually pretty calm about it and either leave me alone to cool down or talk me down with logic, but I know it's not as easy for some people to be talked down... I don't know. He's probably doing it out of frustration and confusion and you need to be understanding about it, but you also should not have to be put up with being abused...

And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see

Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

#65487 - 04/15/03 12:27 AM Re: Is it an excuse or is he really working on it?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
he wallows in his "poor me" I am so ashamed I did such a bad thing" routine and can't even talk about it!
I was never a violent or argumentitive victim, but I was a self destructive one. And that's what he sounds like to me.

My view of life was that I was so useless, unwanted, and incapable then why would anyone bother with me at all ?
And I would manipulate people and situations to prove this in a very nasty way sometimes. I know now that I have created huge distress at different times.

But that's the wonder of hindsight unfortunately....


Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#65488 - 04/15/03 01:42 AM Re: Is it an excuse or is he really working on it?
orodo Offline

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
This all sounds so like me and my wife. I perceive myself as taking the verbal emotional abuse from her, she claims it's me being verbally and emotionally abusive to her. I have a hard time "getting over it" when she calls me fag and tells me she don't love me and I smell like a cigar, and spend "all my time" on the computer, thinking only of me, wrapped up in my own little world of "poor me." So i talked to the shrink about it. Especially the part about how my anger and emotions can run really high, really fast, and then it takes me a long time to "calm down". He "thinks it could be" Borderline Personality Disorder. H "thinks it would be a good idea" for me, if not her too, to start something called "dialectical Behavioral therapy". Supposed to be a such a good thing for all, not just those with "potential " BPD. Of course it's like three hours a week...during work hours...and of course that would be such an inconvenience for her. So I never started it. But if the idea of DBT strikes you as something different, worth a try, maybe I will have done something good for someone else by having brought it up? Of course, don't listen to me, talk to the Therapists, they know better what is going on with you, and are professionals better suited to make recommendations. I am just relating my experiences here, in hopes that someone else might gain from them, cuz I still stuck where I am....



It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

#65489 - 04/17/03 06:49 PM Re: Is it an excuse or is he really working on it?
PAS Offline

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
David: Great post - what is really tough about my situation is that we have been to counselling and its like he just throws it all out the window when he gets angry. Its like we never paid for those sessions at all.

I do think that we need a new counsellor - the one we had in my opinion, was too wimpy. I think there is part of him that needs to be told, point blank (by someone other than me of course) that a) he is being abusive and b) he can't expect to keep up his verbally abusive behaviour and keep me in his life. I think he is acting like an immature baby when he gets in these fights (at one point he even stuck his tongue out at me like he was five!) and just needs to "be told"!!!!

What kills me after we fight about this is that he talks about stuff that went on as if it was a "we" thing. I know I damn well dont react as well as I should when things get hot and ugly, and I am trying to work on those things inside me that keep me going back for more, but hell if he won''t or can't draw a line around what is HIS responsibility and leave me the hell out of it (I am motivated to work on myself when I see him doing the same) then I dont know what to do. I hate the underlying implications that somehow I am partially to blame (I may well be, but I want to discover that on my own and not be "told" by someone I"m furious with). What is even harder with this particular fight is that I tried SOOO hard to struggle against my usual nature to just jump into the thick of things when things get hot and add fuel to the fire. I tried to stay so calm, so rational, so in control for so long and then I just lost it. I dont know how long someone can put up with that shit - if you stay calm and stay calm and the person is just egging you into it - I dont know what to do!!! I tried walking away but each time we came back to each other, it wasn't any better. After awhile it just blew up.

So now I'm back from my whirlwind trip - and things between the BF and I are very tense. Very icy. I just can't feel a lot of love for him right now. I didnt even want to hug him or hold his hand when I got back from my trip. He's all puppy dog like now, wanting to hold my hand, and stuff, but I wasn't having any of it. I didnt even call him on my trip to tell him if I was ok or that I missed him (I didn't, actually I was glad to be safely 2000km and two time zones away from him).

The hardest thing for me right now is to feel that I'll ever be able to confide in him, trust him, or feel supported by him again. I dont want to open myself up to another barrage of insults - of things that hit so close to home. What is the most hurtful about what he said is that I am very self-conscious about "my issues" (I am an abuse survivor (verbal, emotional/mental - not sexual - my childhood home was full of substance abuse issues) and have similar issues to many people on this site). I have been dumped by friends and boyfriends alike who have said the same things - that they are having problems with my "issues" even my own father who was abusing me constantly blamed me for my erratic/disruptive behaviour in response to his neglect, moodiness, and abuse.

I am just learning, now that I am away from abusive people, is that I am a really ok, rational and very likeable person and my behaviour was a reaction to what was going on. I also know that with supportive people, I really can go a long way to getting rid of the "issues" and being more of a cooperative, productive person. I also know that I have come a long way from the 22 year old depressed and agoraphobic mental hospital patient that I was when I graduated from University into the 33 year old productive, well-paid, well respected professional with many friends and an active social life. But yet - when my BF does his "abuse thing" I find myself acting out just like I did when I was at home. What's odd is that during the good phases in between rough times is when my BF finds ways to pick me apart!!!

I thought that my BF believed in me - but instead, this week, he, like everyone else, blamed me and ridiculed me for having "issues". I loved him for being one of the few people who could see through my temperamental times, and see the real me and now I dont know why I even love him at all. If he sees me just like everyone else who's walked out of my life - then I dont want any part of him anymore. I'm working damn hard on my own issues, and I NEVER get so cruel as he has been with me, I never ever have gone into his deepest, darkest corners to hurt him like he has done with me.

Not sure how this is all going to work out.. I just feel like I'm in relationship pergatory right now. Not in love, not in hate, kind of in a form of love-apathy.


#65490 - 04/17/03 08:03 PM Re: Is it an excuse or is he really working on it?
PAS Offline

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Orodo: thanks for the info. re: possible therapy - I am in fact doing some hypnotherapy/regression therapy that I find is workign very well. Helping me to deal with my issues that cause my anxiety and insecurities.

Whats so tough is that last year my BF was discussing with me how "my issues" were really being tough on him and I agreed that I would get help not just for him but for me too. I have had three sessions and my BF, as recently as last Wednesday, was telling me he was so proud of me, how strong I was, etc. And the sessions are really working - I am less anxious, have not had any obsessive thoughts or dreams, and have really made progress. And then he goes and flips out and ridicules my progress and my resolution - calling me weak, and wimpy, not brave, and spineless.

I just dont know how to resolve this. I dont know if I'll ever forgive, trust and believe in him again.



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