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#63079 - 09/10/02 08:08 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
Cement Offline

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California

I recognize all the patterns here, too. Pardon me for being blunt, but your husband is full of shit and probably in denial. He is manipulating his own perception of what is happening, and his therapy is only giving him fancier ways to manipulate. Until he faces his demons, until he there will be NO change. Also, I wish you hope,

Lynda put it best,
I wasn't saying to him, "You have to do these things because I say so." I was saying, "This is what I've decided I need in order to stay in this marriage and try to make it work."
Read those words over and over...

and again, Lynda says,
I was seeing a therapist at the time, and she helped me to establish boundaries and an ultimatum.
Are you in therapy, individually? because you need support and someone to echo back to you, in real life, that YOU ARE NOT NUTS to expect a husband to treat you with respect, regardless of what that husband has been through.

All those warm fuzzies aside, stop waiting for him to fix things for you. Set your own agenda, take charge of your life.

And don't leave him, he is secretly in a great amount of pain...

And let the darkness fear our light.

#63080 - 09/10/02 08:36 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
JamesMichael Offline

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 134
I don't believe that spouses ought necessarily to be confessors to each other. Isn't there some Step thing about making amends to all we have harmed unless to do so would unduly harm them? It could be cruel to burden another with one's dark side. I also think there can be a morbid curiosity concerning the offenses of the one in recovery. Men can't be decompensating, falling apart, running into traffic because a spouse can't handle what they're barely able to handle. This is not to say that if the stage is set, that there's a foundation for deeper sharing that victim history shouldn't be shared within the proper context. But a foundation must be laid first, and if it's not, then both need to start digging to lay one. I counsel prudence, compassion, and the awareness to "be kind, everyone is fighting a hard battle." (Ephesians). In my marriage, each of us have suffered from "impulsive indiscretions." I think my wife and I respect that there's pain and hurt, shame and so on there. I don't want to know the gory details of her behaviors, and I think it would be extremely uncharitable/unloving for her to know, in detail, or to speculate about the details, of my survivor "behaviors." Those are burdens I share elsewhere. If it's illness take it to the appropriate physician. Loved ones don't do the surgery. They pray that what's hurting is being taken care of by the proper hands.

Love is patient, love is kind...


#63081 - 09/11/02 01:41 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
AMiNUTS Offline

Registered: 06/13/02
Posts: 37

I am not in individual therapy but we are seeing a therapist together. However, after last night's session and words of wisdom from this site, I believe it is a waste of time and will be going next time alone. I plan on telling my H that I need some time in therapy alone. His attitude has changed dramatically from I'll do this therapy thing if I have to - to instead a pompus asshole who almost seems to be laughing at it right in our presence. And then guess what...after the gym. whatever! I am in a place that I have visited often. Its called take care of me and my children and FUCK him.

As for "don't leave him"...I think that would be the best thing he could hope for at this point in time. That IS rock bottom. Unfortunately it is rock bottom for everyone, including our children. I think he is in a totally selfish mode of behavior. And pardon my French, but I really think that since I won't worship his dick he is being self absorbed and doing who knows what. So once again, I don't actually give a flying fig what he is doing and with whom. As far as I am concerned, since we now are both in the same place (not giving a shit), I feel a little less guilt about being out of it. This is not to say that I will leave our house...because I will not leave. Emotional disconnect is what I am talking about. Emotional divorce until I can better take care of things.

I am in a really pissy mood. Haven't slept for two nights...and I actually believe he likes it when I am in turmoil. Its almost like a power thing..."Look how I can screw with her and make her feel bad, loose sleep...woohoo" I think he enjoys this because it gives him control. (I don't know this for sure, but this is how it feels).

James Michael..."love is patient, love is kind." I don't know if I love him. I don't even think I like him. Maybe I hang on because its scary do let go. Maybe I hang on because I feel sorry for him. I don't know about love, I only recognize circumstances that feel beyond my control.

Sorry for the crap I just unloaded.


#63082 - 09/11/02 02:13 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
JamesMichael Offline

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 134

This site is incredibly supportive and a great place to vent, get others' input, etc. It is, however, not a substitute for one-on-one therapy. No single participant of this site can know you or your situation as well as real-time/real-life therapist/counselor/whatever can. Obviously, you have to protect and care for yourself and your children especially if your husband isn't. It's self-preservation. He's blind to your hurt because he's anesthetized by his pain. Detach yourself. Don't be his emotional punching bag. You can't get into a fencing match with him. You're throwing darts,
and he has a hatchet. Sad. Establish some boundaries with him.

Stop being a doormat for his dirt, and be a doorkeeper for yourself and your children. You decide who and what's safe to let into your lives.

Get real-live/real-time help.

I wish Peace to you.


#63083 - 09/11/02 02:24 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
searching Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/16/00
Posts: 21
AMiNUTs, I'm so sorry you feel so bad right now. However, I'm glad to see you get angry. You must let yourself feel that anger so that you'll build the strength to do what you have to do.

Feel angry. You deserve to. But don't stop there--take care of yourself. You've been hurt, and your pain is no less important than your husband's pain. You don't have to be vindictive, but you should, as I said before, set boundaries and try to live by them.

Please keep posting, and please take care of yourself. Get help, therapy, find a trusted support system. Become less dependent on him if you can--being dependent can be an awful trap.

Keep in touch,


#63084 - 09/11/02 03:12 PM Re: AMiNUTS - It's time to Get Paranoid...
soccer Offline

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 43
Aminuts: major hugs to you. I really feel for you. The advice that has been given her is sound - make sure you are setting boundaries and not letting him treat you like an emotional punching bag. Also therapy of your own is a good idea too. If finances are a problem for therapy there are often places where it can be provided on a sliding fee scale, such as at a university where PhD psych. students are in pre-certification clinical practice.

Dont let the fact that you have kids (unless there are financial reasons) prevent you from even a trial separation if that is what you want. As mentioned, I grew up in a home with an alcoholic father (abuse victim) and he treated ALL of us like shit. He still does from time to time. I think seeing my mother stand up for herself and say "ENOUGH!" would likely have taught both me and my brother a lesson on how to stand for ourselves in relationships. My brother and I are now both in our mid 30's now and still struggling to find mr and ms. right - we just tend to put up with crap from our partners and stay in relationship MUCH too long, and put up with waaay too much.

Kids are very sensitive to tensions between parents, and they will DEFINITELY soon if they haven't already, pick up on the fact that your H is having major problems. For me, I just felt that my father really didnt like me very much. I felt that he loved me out of paternal obligation, but that he really didnt like me very much or feel that I was anything important to him. I still feel that way today. So dont feel that leaving/separating would necessarily be 100% bad for the kids if this is what you really feel you must do. It may be a powerful lesson on how to stand up for themselves.


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