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#58329 - 03/18/04 08:32 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Wifey1 Offline

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Wow!! and I mean WOW!!!!
I had one helluva day, just busy stuff you know all that last minute really crunch time stuff to bring together months of work into a semi finale' of fireworks? LOL ---
I had talked with hubby after hours and hours of meetings.... first I had made a date with him so the 2 of us could discuss the perp/victim shit -- no yelling just discuss --- well it couldnt wait as I was preparing to leave his place (he lets me use it for my meetings and storing tons of files etc...) anyway I just read thru the hiding behind the tv and the sad face, and said ok lets go ahead and talk you look like your driving yourself nuts with worry about what I want to talk to you about....
He said yes he wanted that -- I told him and had told him it wasnt anything bad but it was some shit about the SA issues. When I shared that I was trying to figure out if he was a perp or a victim etc... he was releived and said that he thought i was going to tell him to go to hell and he was out of my life forever -- we both sorta laffed about how that must be some sort of a cardinal rule for survivors to be able to jump directly to worse case scenerio or ya cant really belong to the "club"... (ok so our humor is a bit sicko \:D )
The conversation whent very calmly and smooth and he even said that he thinks considering and researching working with a Sex Offender specific Therapist may be the best route -- I told him tho and it just had popped into my head at the time, hey maybe he wont fit that bill but that therapist could direct him to a better support service... I did tell him tho that he was not honoring me by not being consistent going to therapy or group, he said that he felt the addict group for sex was too repetitious and not addressing any real issues so was a waste of time at this point... well i pretty much had to agree with him, but he agreed it is good to maintain it tho as he still needed to address those issues -- i was amazed to see the real rage in his eyes and his body language talking aboaut the pedophile guy in group he said it sets him off really bad and he had quit going cuz this asshole kept going adn it triggered his SA issues real bad then triggered the sex addiction shit real bad hmmm not a helpful cycle....
With Ken's help I think he may just actually make the jump he needs .... and most likely that I NEED to see him make.... yea, its about me too huh?
Scot, your words can not hurt me -- I've already heard the most painful words I could ever hear and those came from hubby -- your honesty and view is always so appreciated and the love that you share with each of here is so tremendous I always ALWAYS look forward to hearing your views.
I am gonna share a short version of his "perp" event. He had been drinking and trying to be "20" again shortly after my diagnosis, his daughters went off to college and he was involved in schooling in which his perp from his childhood would sometimes be in. He spiraled down very quickly, I was struggling to stay alive -- finances were destroyed .... all sorts of stressors, but he kept trying to hang out more with his 20 yr old daugh friends than any guys his age (i've since found out he does not trust any men at ALL), I left town after having pleaded for the last fucking time for my fractured family to get there shit together, the kiddos had convinced him to buy booze for them they all got drunker than shit, he says the next thing he remembers is he woke up to this 20 yr old in his bed on top of him-- he pushed her off -- but she later then went to the hospital filed rape charges. He went to court, was punished and did his time -- it was lowered i think to what is called an aggravated misdemeanor (i may be saying this part wrong) -- anyway he is considered low risk and must list on the sex offender list for 10 yrs.
After he did his jail time (he did nights, had to work to keep health insur in place for me and pay the fines etc.).... he had a complete break down and his boss told him either go ck into the crayola wing or they were gonna send him - he had gotten a therapist to help him deal with his SA thqat had began to creep up on him, the break down was a complete memory of what the fucking bastard did to him --- even i gagged hearing this ---
I'm not sure if what he did was an actual perpetration, by law it was as the 20 yr old was drunk, and he was more than 4 yrs older than her (our girls are not his bio kiddos and i am older than him) any too hoo he was drunk also, no one in the police reports knows how she and he ended up in the same bed or who started what with having sex.... but because she had been penetrated he became the perp (a couple weeks later i ended up with an STD that thru court papers found out that she had and one that she had gotten from someone else ??? ugh!!!) He shared his whole sordid shit aboaut the years of shit he hid from me, the prostitutes teh sex addiction porn blah blah blah.... i packed my suitcase that morning and left.... its been 3 years. My mother is so supportive she told him "WEll we all know how difficult Sam is to live with".... that should fill in the rest of the pic for ya, he told her it was his fault yada yada, but most folks think he is the "Golden boy" and man is that a pedestal hard to knock over!
I'm not sure if he "intended to do the abuse" altho looking back I think there must have been some sort of bent form of grooming by keeping himself around the 20 somethings when he is a 30 something (i'm a 40 something)-- I think he was/is emotionally stuck in the age in which he missed out on maturation due to his abuse -- hence the attraction to the 20 somethings?
I dont think he has totally put himself in his "victims shoes"... I just havent actually heard real "remorse in his voice" , just true honest to god confusion -- his gut reaction from the beginning is that he felt violated by her? adn in the light that i truly think he has experienced sexual abuse by his c**t of a mother i'm not so sure that it may not be too far off base in emotionally feeling violated --- physically tho... HE violated her HE needs to own that with out adding the damn word "but" to any of it in my opinion.
I happen to very much agree he is wrapped in the "poor me syndrome".... a swing of either poor me, or look at how wonderfully smart and successful i am , to isolation?.... and yes I also agree that he is emotionally abusing me, but I cant quite describe it or put my finger on what those behaviours are -- and right now I have been having very limited contact with him so I can think this out...
And consequences -- Hmmm I dont know what consenquences I could present him with? I dont live with him, I dont clean his house, do his laundry, cook, shop nothing -- i dont call him he calls me,... and I am totally dependant upon him for transportation, meds, health insurance, extra cash for my wants and desires-- but i do NOTHING for him -- other than grace him with my precense and listen on occassion? Hmmm there certainly must be more but i am not sure what it is.
and ya know I have not thought about this before you broght it up but it is a good thought....
I do believe that he did not truly "plan" for this perpetration to that i dotn think he thought this out step by step as in... well if I hang out with sissy's friends i could maybe get XXX alone and bang the shit out of her ... I think he didnt even know what was happening but crossed the line adn didnt even know there truly was a line in the sand at the time?
god i hope i am not bullshitting myself -- either way he is open to Sex Offender specific therapy and that brings about some hope...
so many of you posted good things to me today and have stirred some very good thought processes, i want to respond to them more in this threaad
but i am just beat up worn out and fried --- its sleepy time,
May each of you rest peacefully
I'll respond more tommorow... and I am "Just Sammy" \:D

#58330 - 03/18/04 03:10 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
PAS Offline

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Originally posted by Wifey1:
I feel so ashamed.... ashamed that I cannot be more of a caring being toward him than I am feeling.
there is goodness in him -- i have felt it and i have seen it.... ashamed i am not being strong enough to want to see this through more.
What about his responsibility to you?

Take care of #1 first. Although he is doing a lot of stuff out of pain, there is a line that must be drawn as far as reacting to pain vs. unacceptable behaviour. PUlling inwards and wanting a lot of "alone time" is acceptable. Abuse or infidelity or drugs/alcohol abuse is not.

I dumped my own fiance a month ago because he crossed that line. His anger problem turned into some pretty vicious verbal abuse and erratic, dangerous behaviour (driving dangerously with me in the car, smashing things).

I would not have taken him back if he had a) continued to blow off his abusive behaviour using his past as an excuse and b) not gone immediately, under his own volition, to see a therapist and continue going (he has gone about 5x since that incident) and c) not worked out a "safety plan" with me when he feels his moods getting to that point. He took the lead on being responsible for ALL of those things which to me was a good sign. If I had to drag him kicking and screaming to a therapist, or if I had to persuade him into a "safety plan" then it would have been pretty obvious that my needs did not count, and for me, thats where I split.

There are lines of appropriate behaviour that are being violated all over the place in your case. Nobody should/could/can put up with infidelity, lack of commitment, abuse, substance abuse, etc. Those are definitely NON starters in any relationship. If you continue to put up with that shit under the guise of "not being good enough, not being caring enough" then you'll slowly but surely lose grip on reality. Substance abuse, depression - or worse will soon ensue. I've been there.


#58331 - 03/18/04 03:27 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
PAS Offline

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Originally posted by crisispoint:
He needs to see value in others as well. And maybe laying down the law will kick-start him into making the changes HE needs to make.
I love that line....

unfortunately the only way to make changes with someone who is resisting the loving, caring, approach is the "tough love" approach. I have done it with my own father (to limited success) and recently to my fiance (with more success).

Unfortunately if you are in a situation where the only thing in the relatioship is problems, there really is no friendship or love relationship, then also as posted on here, you really are alone. And there's nothing wrong with spending time with others that give you time, love, support, friendship, and away from those - no matter WHO they are (ex husband or whoever) that are not a loving and supportive friend.

I think there is something innate in most women - that someone going through pain just triggers our "mama bear" instinct. Its all I can do some days to not rush out and soothe my fiance when he's down, when he's acting out, to "make it all bettter", to stop his tears, to call out to him when I see him dissociating, to run after him when he has an angry outburst and storms out of the house. I have to stamp that urge down with every fibre in my body sometimes! Its especially hard as I grew up with an abusive, alcoholic depressive father and his sadness, pulling away and anger trigger every damn "abandonment by men" fear that I've got. Its REALLY scary.

I'm slowly learning that a big part of my job in this relationship and in life to be a "strong chick" and live my life for myself, to work through my OWN shit and let him work through his.

#58332 - 03/18/04 03:51 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
PAS Offline

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Sammy: after reading Lloydy's view and your de>

#58333 - 03/18/04 04:09 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Wifey1 Offline

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Hi All,
I just wanted to finish adding on as so many of you had so many good points and I am just so full of even more questions.
Theo shared this:
he seems to be victim and perp, not a survivor, yet. there is a difference, as you well know.
and yes there in lies a HUGE truth -- and mostly he wobbles in what mode he is in. It is even scarey as hell to have thot about this enough to pick up that the mode he is in depends quite often on me, not that I tell him what or how to feel or how to think -- but my own operating mode. I.E. if I am busy in a meeting with a huge amount of stress happening - he'll go off to supposedly stay out of the way, but has this beaten puppy look on his face, it quickly zips into isolation (isolation in a crowd of folks) -- folks will leave I prepare to go to my own space and he becomes clingy like a child not wanting to be left at the babysitters.
When I have to face down my own demons or deal with shitty family he then is this strong protective man that I know is in there is also that way when it comes to helping the elderly folks in our hood and or those in need -- muscle help or auto, technology help -- emotional support he quickly melts and looks to me?....
SAR, I know that early on one of the boundaries set out has been that he must remain active in his therapy none of this start and stop bullshit, I think tho' that maybe (and now perhaps this is my wobble?) that may have been an unrealistic expectation as for me my idea of active therapy is sessions at least once every 2 wks, grp wkly -- this morning rationally I feel as if I need to add some sort of an addendum to that as in: unless a break is needed to rest and regroup then the swirl sits in my gut "however he may use the addendum as an excuse so as not to work therapy"... since I know I can only "request the boundary" and cant force him into anything -- the reality is that while I dont need his house for meetings, I DO need him for meds, transportation, diabetic equipment, etc sounds sad but it seems to come off as some sort of a cash cow situation -- ? I have even kept him at a enough of a distance that he only comes to me when I have been in critical health status --- in attempting to work into a "couples counseling" position I have tried to keep myself open to "dates" that allow for being able to even tolerate being in the same air space as him --- its not always that bad, but it is an example.
Scot & Gang,
about suicide: Is this type of intrusive thinking ever anything that goes away? I have in my younger years tried this, during the active abuse and the initial memory floods the urges were the strongest. Also when faced with high stress or emotional blows it seems as if the suicide thoughts (plans ideations) are the strongest. I thought I had myself in a place where this was/ is no longer a problem -- apparently not. I know the reaction is not exclusive to survivors, but can anyone explain why it seems to be almost an instinctive reaction to any sort of pain/ trauma? disruption in daily life (not sure i am explaining this right) I've gone from daily thinking of it (a safty net?) to being thought and urge free of this for some time, I am not quite sure what changed this other than a spiritual awakening for lack of better explanation during a surgery -- but am not comfortable that this thought process may become the norm again.
Interestingly enough, hubby has said he has only thot of suicide when he knew he had acted out with the perping issue... and a girlfriend of mine has said that has never been an option or a thought for her (she suffered an nutball abusive mom). Is it the norm? am I the abnorm in this?
you shouldn't have to feel that your anger about this hurt is biased or a result of your own abuse.
SAR, holey bat smack batman!! I never in my wildest considered this! But how TRUE!-- at times i have wondered if i have "been taken advantage of" (for lack of better words) BECAUSE of my survivor status, how many times have i heard him say "You KNOW how XXX -- and being more embroiled in the giving compassion than recieving well duh? I missed the boat eh? -- ANYONE would feel pain in this survivor or not! and be ENTITLED to it!

Dishonesty and breaking promises are big BIG issues for me--I grew up in an place where promises were made and broken all the time and we were expected to "cover up" our problems in public, which I saw as dishonesty. Now my boyfriend knows about me and lying, and he knows why. So when I say the lies hurt me more than anything else he did, it means something special to me, but is that a statement that only another survivor would make? I don't think so. Is it only because of my own abuse history that I tell him that? Probably not. Was it irrational anger over feeling victimized again that made me tell him that everyone, including him, who's ever been close to me has let me down? Well, yes. And it was not really right of me to say. But that last one is about me and my expectations of others and of him as a partner. I've decided to give him a second chance, but I'm also better than I was before about being clear about my expectations, and he needs to know about me that I don't easily forgive a broken promise and I probably won't again. If you feel like you need to keep your problems with his problems on a low level to get your "survivor bias" out of the picture, then keep it low but don't dismiss all your hurt like this.
Lies, and Trust -- this seems to be a common thread intwined in this stuff called surviving/partnering --- and it is a HUGE issue, this is something that personally I would like to overcome for my self -- to become trusting of others, but I too cannot stand a lier -- and I do hold grudges (maybe thats not the right word) I never trust someone who I know has lied to me. I dont set them up or "test" them, but if I find out someone has lied its zap they are gone from my mental/ emotional list of mattering in anything -- since hubby has/had a huge problem with lying (i've learned now much more about that aspect of lying for survivors/victims) I really dont think that I will ever trust him again. I think I have resolved myself to just some sort of acceptance that no matter what he says I wont feel as if he is trustworthy but it is now a point of "i can live with it?". I have been blunt with him about this, and he knows the trust is probably not something that will ever come completely around for him (why he would tolerate that shit from me is beyond me)-- but I geuss it is a point of agreeance for us? I certainly dont "beat him up" for crap or scramble around or set him to to catch a lie --- the energy inserted to that would kill me, but perhaps its a lack of respect that is not given to him? knowing is one thing feeling is another -- and i just aint feelin it -- not sure if i will and quite frankly if i never do it doesnt scrape my ass either.
If you feel like you need to keep your problems with his problems on a low level to get your "survivor bias" out of the picture, then keep it low but don't dismiss all your hurt like this.
I know that i go thru a "process" of sorts with my hurts -- i am trying to change that cycle that had stopped working a long time ago -- yet in this i dont want to reinvent the wheel either -- i've added a new tool to this process, I have been blessed with someone who is not afraid to physically "hold me", (i'm not really much of a cryer) but the physical touch seems to be very healing (our poster Don (?) that does massage may be able to explain this more -- however this person is safe for this hmmmm "hug therapy?" -- i dont have to talk, but just concentrate on breathing and feeling safe -- tho I have only been at this a few short months it does seem to have opened doors emotionally for me (i can now actually formulate and ASK for specific things for help)... it is very hard tho to walk away from hubby once he has been triggered or i have been triggered to keep the survivor issues out of the way *** the difficulty I am finding in all of this is that I truly believe we have operated our relationship (17 yrs or so) as victim/survivor/parent etc -- until we actively are in couples counseling we will continue to bump along with the same damn tools -- and my stance is this maybe i am wrong but its my feelings in this: HE is the one who crossed the boundaries, HE is the one who fucked up and didnt get therapy long ago tho he knew it was available, I have been the one who has bitten the bullet to work on me etc.... so HE needs to actively SHOW me that putting our relationship in either an active healing status or flush it completely -- and I dont think its about avoidance or blame, I know there is a lot of anger attached to this thought process -- and I am sick of being in limbo. the whole shit or get off the pot.
And Dave, this is a good thinking point please bear with me as I muddle thru this.
But in the big picture ( Ignoring legal definitions for a moment ), was he guilty of forcefull rape or stupidity ?
I know what he did has no real defence, the point I'm trying to make is how YOU see his offence in relation to your principles and beliefs.
The only thing I know re: rape is that NO one in the police statements etc said that it was "forcefull" and this I have thot about so much so much so much -- in 17 years of being in a sexual relationship with him he has NEVER ONCE exhibited any type of even a HINT of force or violence, in fact he would be considered the passive partner when it comes it sex -- the part that throws me is the acting out with visits to prostitutes , he shared that he was even passive in those encounters (what i consider passive as he laid there not moving), and then the compulsive masterbation i dont think that masturbation would be considered aggressive? or is it?
I have to agree he is guilt of stupidity but then again i am feeling rather mean and pissed off too -- rationally i know he was facing and dealing with much traumatic loss -- kiddos off to college, wife dying, etc... enough to drive any sane man/woman into an abyss but NOT an excuse just an understandign of his stupidity -- last night in our discussion he shared that he really believed that when I had left (on a dr ordered "vacation") he felt our marriage was completely over, so in light of that thinking tho he wasnt actively seeking contact with another female he would have acted on it if it presented itself but he stressed this part to me "I was in no way seeking a YOUNG female" --- I didnt get the feeling that this was an excuse but rather a real truth -- adn that in itself spins me back to in his mind set if he was "frozen" at his maturity level from his abuse, did he feel or believe that a 19/ 20 something was his peer age?
You ARE right to demand some account of his past behaviour, as well as assurances about his future. And that should also include what he's doing to better himself. Being accountable gives US some kind of framework and responsibility to work with - and god knows we need it sometimes !
Thank you for that validation... and I too believe that at some point he has the right to hold me accountable also in my behavior -- when he can figure out and articulate exactly WHat in the hell he needs or wants me to do to actively support him beyond the endless hugs etc....
But please don't beat him with his past mistakes, I learned to move on by example.
Once I'd told Linda about what I'd done she closed the book on it and moved on, we moved on.
I have no doubt at all that my actions will haunt her, as they do me. But we look forward as much as we can.
I dont beat him up about it -- I dont disclose this to anyone who hastn made the "list of approval"... and yes it is about learning by example.... I am not sure I can ever close the book on this pain (mabye i will get there?)... and yes the "Actions do Haunt us" -- but I still hand those ghosts over to the son of a bitches that injured us in the beginning.....
I said to him last night that even tho he gets so fucking pissed off at that guy in his group about the pedophelia thing... even he had someone somewhere who injured him most likely --- that I do have it in me to offer a twig of understanding and hope that he could become truly remorseful and never harm again .... that his pain has been expressed by shedding that pain upon yet another -- just as hubby has shed his pain on those around him, we must work somehow to make the pains into some form of positive -- and it is totally ok to be so pissed off and angry right now to not be able to give that understanding.... even if we dont ever get "there" , others can be in a position to help the ones who injure, we must work in some way to break this horiffic cycle....even if it is souly based on healing our own personal hurts....
**ok now i am getting preachy so i am gonna shutup here**
Again I want to express a heartfelt Thank You for those of you who have had the guts to read this, share your love and support for a subject that so easily could have been ostracized and tossed away as if he and I have no meaning placing it into a catagory of all perps deserve pain no help -- You're all a brave bunch.... and Thank you for your respect.
Peace to Each of Us, Sammy

ps how do i change my name on the site from wifey1? can i edit that?

#58334 - 03/18/04 09:50 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
crisispoint Offline

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts

Ah, another hard one. Right in the middle of a strong emotional downturn for me.

But, you demand honesty, so, for me, it never goes away completely. Now, for example, I'm scared. Scared because I realized that I'm not afraid of dying and I don't even fear Hell because there's NOTHING that Satan could throw at me that's worse than what I'm living.

It's not abnormal, sadly. At least not for me.

Worst still, I feel like I am damned. Damned to wonder the Earth until Christ himself judges me and throws me into Hell. Doing what I do, teaching, trying to help people here when I'm on an emotional uptick, etc., makes it bearable, but still all I wish for now is to be a "sin eater" for all those affected by abuse and it's aftermath. God can send me to Hell for all I care. As I said, it can't be worse than what I live with now. But I wish, since I've done something to earn my damnation ahead of schedule, he'd just hang your (everyone here and elsewhere who've suffered this thing) pain on me and free you of it before I go. A martyrdom complex, but it's all I feel good for.

So, with all that negative imagery on my back, why do I resist?

Because I've lived the result of suicide. Friends and brothers here have killed themsleves and I see the kind of pain they left behind. Damned if I'm going to do that to other people. Damned if 'll leave THAT as my legacy.

I've learned to push those thoughts away because, despite being damned, I know that I'm a good person and I have a destiny here. I can help others, I can be the mercy of God they look for. I can serve His will because it's not my style to throw it away on such a simple thing as my own suffering. I have so much more to do, and that makes my life worth living.

When that fails, and there are days like today that they do, I've made a safety plan. I TALK it out here and with my therapist. If I do feel that an attempt is inevitable, I'm going to the hospital and get the help I deserve. A backup plan is key for me because I know there's a last resort if it gets to be too frigging bad.

Now, I didn't mean to be all negative, but it's also a good thing to see that there is NO recurring thoughts (which are normal) that is strong enough to make a good person like yourself take the last step. You're not abnormal. I think in your case, like mine, it's better to redirect the energy when the thoughts come a knocking. That's what I do.

Sammi, I'm glad you're changing your screename. Perhaps "BriarRose" would be a good one too, for you are a sleeping beauty just come awake. And Lord, what you will do for the world when it all gets rolling, kiddo! I'm excited to see that happen! \:D

Peace and love, Sammi. Whenever you need, I'm here.


There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

#58335 - 03/18/04 11:57 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Unfortunately it's not possible to change your name - unless Fred has some magic, but I can't do it through the control panel.

the difficulty I am finding in all of this is that I truly believe we have operated our relationship (17 yrs or so) as victim/survivor/parent etc --
Everything changes after a big trauma, and you and hubby have had more than your share.
Both of you carried the childhood traumas with you, I don't know when you shared them but they certainly moulded you into the people you were 17 years back.
Then along come illness, and hubby's sex offence.
Both of those things will change you, and the the way the other parter reacts and thinks about you.

I'm a completely different person to the one I was 7 or 8 years ago, and before that as well.
Linda's changed because of her thinking about the way I am. Luckily we both think the changes are for the better, but they do take some adjusting to.
What irritated the hell out of her before doesn't do it now, but as sure as hell something else does :rolleyes:

We do discuss the past, it's inescapable, and the subject of my acting out does crop up sometimes.
But our talks tend to be future based, we talk of our wishes and aims as much as we can.

I get a feeling that your almost right in what I've just quoted. - "victim/survivor/parent" I would say you fit all three, but as Scot or Theo ( I think ) pointed out has hubby reached "survivor" yet ?

So as you've changed, has he kept up ? not the best analogy, but you get my meaning.
You suspect that he's somehow trapped at '20 something' - and that's not as stupid as it sounds.
And you might even relate to this yourself as a survivor ? - if the childhood trauma affects us at a particular time in a certain way we withdraw or are unable to live a 'normal' life, so we miss out on a period that should be influential and formitive to us.
Then we deal with the childhood trauma somehow, we use whatever coping, survival mechanisms we have and start to live a 'normal' life. Or at least an act of a 'normal' life. We're surviving on dysfunctional coping mechanisms ( acting out etc ) and fantasising - craving - missing the lost years.
For me it was 11 to 17 while I was away at a single sex boarding school and being abused, and I do have some issues about those years even now. I find girls of that age very attractive. Wrong I know, and I would never act upon it, look for young girl porn or even react to their presence around me.
But even though I deal with this issue in therapy, and talk to Linda about it, there is some kind of neurologial switch that just goes 'click' - I've learned to switch it straight off.
But I didn't talk to girls untill I was nearly 18 and got a car ! at primary school we were segregated, I lived out in the country, then boarding school. My chat up lines had to be heard to be believed \:\(

So I think you're doing all the right things Sammy, and I think the best thing you can do is get him out of that group he's in. I go to a group and come away feeling better - that's what they're SUPPOSED to do !

I know we all say "never drag a Survivor kicking and screaming into help or therapy" and "You can't do the healing for us" - Nowhere in there does it mention "ARSE-KICKING" That comes under two headings "Marital Rights" and "Support" - I know that's true - Linda told me.

Dave ;\)

Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#58336 - 03/19/04 07:17 AM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
gryffindor Offline

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
the kiddos had convinced him to buy booze for them they all got drunker than shit

Here was the big, big error. Buying the liquor for his daughters and their friends and then getting drunk with them is just about the most irresponsible and, yes, stupid thing your husband and your daughters' step-father could have done. Everything that followed could just about have been predicted.


he says the next thing he remembers is he woke up to this 20 yr old in his bed on top of him-- he pushed her off -- but she later then went to the hospital filed rape charges.

This is not what I call rape. It's an act of shameful stupidity but not rape. Putting your husband on the Sex Offenders List for ten years is a case of the state going overboard in its attempt to protect the public. Your husband's ambiguous feelings about just who was the victim and who was the perpetrator in his case is very understandable in my view.

Some states are really getting outrageously up-tight when it comes to defining sexual offenders. I've read of a couple of cases in my local newspaper where it clearly appeared that the young woman involved was equally responsible with the young man for the sexual encounter. Yet the man was confronted with a prison sentence, and the woman got off with nothing but parental lecture, if that.

My state legislature recently passed a law that says if one of the parties to a sexual encounter (a kiss on the cheek could be defined as a sexual encounter) says "no" or "stop" one time, and the other party does not stop (a kiss on the other cheek in an effort to cheer up a girl in a bad mood), a sex crime has been committed. A lot of high school boys could find themselves in jail because of this law. All a girl has to do is lie. Which has happened. A woman recently came forward and confessed that she perjured herself in testifying that a particular man had raped her. The man, who had already served several years in state prison, was immediately released. Who will compensate this innocent man for the torment and anxiety he must have felt, as well as his loss of freedom? And, let's never forget that he was very probably raped as soon as he got to prison.

Your husband has been punished more than enough already for this tragedy. I hope you can find it in yourself to forgive him. I really believe you would like to because you love him so much.

Now to a happier subject. You love roses. So do I. You want a new name. Give yourself a rose name. Jackson & Perkins is holding a contest drawing to win a trip to its rose farm and name a new rose it's going to introduce, next year I think. Imagine that you are a new rose and need a name. What name would you give yourself? Have you visited the American Rose Society website ( or .org)? There is tons of information about just about all of the roses known in the world. Have fun with this Sammi. Keep well.


"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

#58337 - 03/19/04 10:50 PM Re: Not sure maybe someone can decipher?**may contain triggers**
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
while I dont need his house for meetings, I DO need him for meds, transportation, diabetic equipment, etc sounds sad but it seems to come off as some sort of a cash cow situation -- ? I have even kept him at a enough of a distance that he only comes to me when I have been in critical health status
I've been doing my own thinking about my version of this statement--during the worst of it, would I have stayed with my boyfriend if the kids weren't so little, if I wasn't trying to go back to school, if I'd had my own bank account or anywhere else to live-- is it wrong of me to say that love kept us together when maybe it was just fear and economics?

Well. I do think that maybe it was easier for me to say "fear and economics" because those are good, solid, practical reasons for deciding to remain in an otherwise terrible situation. Even if the answer was partially that, and partially love all along. Maybe at his worst, we kept each other at a distance, so that we could call it "need" because at the time, "love" just sounded frrrreaking pathetic. And I don't like being pathetic (although I was and would have admitted it at the time).

I do also know that while the bar is higher for me now than it was then, even then, I had some level of shit I wouldn't tolerate--there were certain lines he never crossed--there were things he could have done that would have made me happy to live in a box before I'd speak to him again and he didn't do any of them.

And even though it looks like he had all of what I needed and I had none of what he needed--even at the time I must have been some influence on his life--I don't think he would have done much except keep living with his evil parents and chat up girls on the intenet until the end of his days without the responsibility of wife and family--and I think that even at his sickest he understood that and that some part of his taking responsibility for us was a way of keeping himself free from the consequences of freedom (if that makes sense)...

I'm still working this one out so I'm going to have to leave it open.


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