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#57622 - 09/01/05 12:12 PM **help** feeling violated & lost trust again( Mirroring?)
Wifey1 Offline

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Hi Guize,
I feel like all I have been doing on this board lately is begging for help. ANd then with in a day or so I end up posting some change for the positive.

this crap of two steps forward one step back is killing me and i have reached what I truly believe is my bottom - I am reaching out for survival only tools.

Hubby has pulled several doozy statements and behaviours in the past few days that have me reeling on the inside. My right side of my brain tells me it is all "normal" due to his SA etc -- my left side is telling me to run and run and hide in some witness protection plan ....

I am exhausted from "nicely" asking for PRE information to our daily life functioning that effects me. He still fails to do this -- it is so sporadic I wish I had never even asked for pre info in the beginning it was less confusing & less upsetting to my daily survival = existance.

yes he is at the end of his schooling but it is NO excuse for HOW he has been treating me. His rational for making plans that AGAIN exclude me are complete replay of prior to when he violated the 20 yr old. I cannot protect myself against these behaviours or words.

It is a jumbled mess & I am not sure how to put into words exactly ALL that he has done & said over the past week/s or so.

Since I have moved back into the house (yes I asked him 1st & he agreed) - he has degraded in behavior. He has grown in physically taking care of himself (this is good), verbally he has matured when speaking with "others" , but when he speaks with me it is as if I am back living with my daughters teen age verbal skills & attacks.

I have NOT responded with anger except on two occassions in which I was not only verbally attacked & belittled, but triggered my own issues as well. I HAVE resorted to removing myself from what ever room we are in at the time. He is no longer responding to the "code words" that had been pre set. He now follows me to what ever part I remove myself to. Only to either stand with arms crossed and staring in anger or to try to antagonize me into an argument that I somehow manage to just ask him to express then leave or to just leave as I need "space" to calm dwon. I keep my comments to only "I am listening".

I have found out quite simply he is "hiding money" again -- this is something he did prior when he was actively using porn & prostitutes. He also scheduled a vacation without me, AFTER there had been an agreement between us that we would discuss my attendance in a "peaceful setting" to decide IF I would go or not. (we had gone back & forth about my attendance) He very blatantly scheduled & purchased airline tickets in front of me then DENIED vehemently that the prior agreement to discuss this "vacation" ever happened.

This is classic prior behavior of his "gas lamping" of me (old movie) prior to his acting out. The "vacation" is a perfect set up for him to "act out" with prostitutes & garrunteed silence from his family.

I have made a choice to attempt to "mirror" his behavior toward me in the past of our marriage. I am no longer conversing with him other than 1)I don't know 2) I forgot 3) I'm tired

He has been "pushing me" to go visit a daugh that lives several driving hours away -- physically I cannot make the drive alone and he knows this.

In my questioning of WHY he was only purchasing ONE ticket to this Gala and I snottily asked how much money he was going to need for pocket money and prostitutes (yes it was low but the i wanted to push a button on letting him know I am aware he has money hidden) he responded that "YOU can and do travel ANYTIME you want" --

this hurt soooo bad considering I have to BEG to get a RIDE sAFELY to Dr appts. a few blocks from the house. I responded by leaving the room as this was going no where. I had said a very hurtful thing to him (tho he professes I am allowed my anger & distrust especially in this type of situation) & he in turn hit me FAR below the belt -- he knows my daughters are the ONLY reason I have not injured myself permanently and have not given up in the stupid disease fight.

I feel as if in my fear for my life in living in the disability housing after being attacked & asking to move back in here I have made a worse choice yet again. I was so frightened that I would be raped I did not think this or plan out a REALISTIC plan to function under the same roof.

He had pledged and promised that he would seek and attend marriage counseling as soon as school was completed, I have been doing my best NOT to ask anything of him so that he could do well in his goal. He has begun already his search for a job that will entail a large amount of travel. Thereby making marriage counseling null and void.

A "Lame" attempt to make good with me was him coming to me to "ask" my opinion (as if it matters) when his current boss has asked for him to return to everyday Sat. working. **this was supposed to be just a 5 day wrk wk that really only lasted 3 wks then he was back to 6 days & school anyway** -- my response was it was totally his choice he knew when he made the most money on which days.

He has accomplished getting his Last Will & Testament in place -- a step forward that only took a phone call.

My health is NOT holding up, and he KNOWS I cannot drive in my physical condition for any real length of time beyond a few miles. My perspective on this is that he is unable to "watch" my body degrading but is doing on the "outside" what would appear appropriate to make amends. So that when I do pass he will not have to appear as if he has been anything but supportive.

I dont even ask him to take me grocery shopping - the only reason the grass was cut this past wkend was because of a NOTICE from the city. Hence a large FINE.

I am unwilling to move out yet again -- I DO believe that a set of "rules" can be made so that we can live as "room mates" and he can live as if he is doing his husbandly duties and I can still have SOME amenities to safty & my own "things" surrounding me when I do need Hospice.

Help -- have I bullshitted my ill self into thinking I should stay here and that this will work out for the better for me? having health insur is VITAL for me...

Is my "mirroring" his behavior a more effective survival tool?

He has become and is remaining so selfish I am truly considering drastic changes in what is left of my life --- I KNOW I cannot depend upon him for my happiness, but I am dependant upon him for my health care = GOOD HEALTH CARE. I feel I have earned my stripes for the years in this relationship with supporting him and then some.
However, I am feeling as if I have more than lowered my standards for simple standard of living quality.

Do I DARE call his group leader & ask for guidance? **I really dont want to do this, but I have gone beyond exasperated and NUMB***

A Dumb Sammy

#57623 - 09/01/05 03:35 PM Re: **help** feeling violated & lost trust again( Mirroring?)
kolisha54 Offline

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY

My insight?

Not dumb!!!!!

Sammy - you have done what you haveneeded to survive. If you'd had better alternatives, you would most certainly have taken them.

I am so sorry about all of this.


If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

#57624 - 09/01/05 10:45 PM Re: **help** feeling violated & lost trust again( Mirroring?)
bdr Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 12
Loc: UK

first of all you are not dumb-i kind of recognise some of his behaviour in me-and i think what u have to remember is that u have rights too-u have the right to be treated ok-he has to know this-if his problems are destroying u then u have to either make sure he knows this or leave-u seriously dont have to ruin your life as well

i sort of feel like i sould apologise to you for his behaviour because i recognise it so well

try and be happy

take care-and as i said u are NOT dumb


#57625 - 09/01/05 11:08 PM Re: **help** feeling violated & lost trust again( Mirroring?)
crisispoint Offline

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts

Ah, Hell, lass. I wish there was something I could say that would make it better. I really do, because I understand.

Insight? I don't have any, because I also fall into this tendancy (I fight it more these days, so this is good). Repeating destructive behaviors. Why do we do it?

Hell, if I had that answer.....

The only thing I can say is that, I know the situation you're in is rough, but this doesn't mean he can, should, or be allowed to stomp over you, hide things from you, or not be held to account for his actions.

It's hard, but since you've both agreed to live together and make the relationship work, this also involves him working at it. Yes, he may have made some steps forward, but he's hiding something from you, which cannot be allowed since it also affects you and the kids.

Hell, I feel so badly for you.

My thoughts are with you. If there's anything I can do, let me know.

Peace and much love,


There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

#57626 - 09/02/05 07:49 PM Re: **help** feeling violated & lost trust again( Mirroring?)
Pat Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/28/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Canada

hey, you know if your illness only gives you so much time, then don't you think you should be somewhere or doing something that would make you happy? You deserve to be happy just like anyone eles. you are wourth it!!!! Know if being happy means that you must leave then you know it's up to you.Only you know how bad it is at home and if this is the way you want to keep living, I hate that you sound so need to make sure you are taken care of mently,body, and sole.
( sorry for bd spelling) but you need to look into your self and realy look and don't lie to your self and say " what is best for me and what do I want and what will make me happy" and remmber don't kid your self buy looking for unrelitice goals. I'm so sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time, but there must be a light when you know what you want to do and are at peace with it. Well I hope the best for you and I hope for better days for you!

EdO- no one should ever be hurt like we have and no one should have the pain that we hold in our harts thourgh life.WE will fight it and WIN !!

#57627 - 09/03/05 02:20 AM Re: **help** feeling violated & lost trust again( Mirroring?)
Wifey1 Offline

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
I can''t begin to express how much your support has meant to me on this site thru the years.

I have such exciting news today that it seems all that I have gone thru is making my "pains" worth it.

I DID decide to come back to live in the house with hubby -- and I believe that I have a "Great Creator" who has guided and held me through out these ups and downs.

Honestly when I posted last I was on the brink of holding onto a tiny string of HOPE for my OWN self ---

Today I recieved news that my "move" may not be in vain --- I have been PRE accepted into a GENE study for people with heart disease like what I have, mine has some "classic" names but Docs have not named "IT" due to them never seeing what I have before.

I am ssoooooo excited about being accepted into the GENE study which turns out one of the Cardio's in my Wizards group (who has seen me in the past & cared for me) is heading up the "Study" -- it involves injecting "genes & chemicals" directly into the heart to "grow" what are called "Collalteral Arteries" ---

so even tho I may not be as "happy" here immediately just being 3 blocks from the place where this STUDY is being performed is a HUGE BLESSING.

I Know this has nothing to do with being with my "partner", but I just felt a HUGE NEED to share this exciting news with the people who have shared my life with me for these past few years .... maybe just maybe I will be able to go out into the world with more energy and GIVE in the way that I can best to not only the issues of male SA & Relationship / s -- but on my own personal issues that I am always actively involved in.

BDR - YOU are NOT responsible for HIS behavior even if you do recognize some of his behavior in your own. Heal yourself to the best of YOUR ability so that YOU too can experience happiness in your life. I applaud you that you can identify and recognize and ACKNOWLEDGE that you have these same behaviors. It does not mean that you have to run right out and attempt to change your particular behaviors immediately. Whomever enters your life even if for just a short while you have the ability to learn from as they have the ability to learn from you. THANK YOU for your KIND WORDS!

You are a such a HUGE cheerleader with out you pointing out to me what I let slip sometimes , I just feel that without you and the others who are so BRAVE to input into my postings, I would feel so very much more alone -- THank YOU for being such a voice of REASON when I lose my way.

Scot -- I can only express the great amount of admiration and love that I have for a man who so bravely stands in my corner with open arms ALWAYS, so willing and understanding -- I did speak with him last night a little bit, and basically just expressed that he is now on this healing or NOT healing process on his own. I am taking care of ME no matter HOW he either likes it or not.

It was strange, he walked in, while I was talking with a politico (ya its race time again and i am always in the middle of local politics) -- he (Hubby) made remarks to this man that just about made me fall off my feet - I.E. how I was a wealth of info, kept the streets safe etc -- after the politico left he grabbed me in a hug and told me he meant EVERY word of it -- yet my pain made it feel so empty. I did tell him he was on his own, i would do NOTHING to embarass him & it was up to him to PROVE in action anything he said.

He did tell me he felt that he could NEVER gain my trust -- I told him that was unfair as all he had to do was ACT on his words and it would over time gain my trust -- but he had to give me the time just as I have been giving him the time AND following THRU on the promises & agreements.

BUT I was NOT going to plan or expect jack shit from him until behavior changed. His telling me he loves me etc feels so damn "empty" and rote I just dont even expect feelings from myself or truly believe that he KNOWS this is true. THERE is a difference to ME between CARE and LOVE. -- WAs I too harsh??

Pat, your words about lying to myself are EXACTLY what I am trying to figure out -- what lies I have been telling myself and what my "truths" are -- A HUGE task, physically I am in the BEST possible place to take care of me for my physical self. I DO HAVE people in my life that help to feed my soul and spirit.

I do this by staying as active in my daily life as I possibly can = still playing local politics & giving what I can in the heart disease groups. I do tend to play a little too hard when it comes to dealing with the "cops & robbers" portion -- but I have learned a little better to "pace myself".

I struggle with wanting PEACE for my HUBBY when it comes to his healing -- it is so damn hard to stand back and WATCH and not be able to FIX -- I cant FIX him. I do wish I could give him some of my fight in me when it comes to dealing with the SA -- but then again my anger wasn't and isnt always productive either...

So IF anyone has any IDEAS of WHAT questions to ask myself on HOW to find MY truths it would be such a help.

As you can see and tell I am so damn overwhelmed I dont know what basic questions I need to ASK myself to figure out my "truths" and even "needs" - the health stuff I know what I need -- the relationship with myself is where currently I am stuck... so ANY questions you may have asked yourself, or been suggested to you or heck any IDEA would be a BEGINNING for me to start my process....

Thank you to ALL of you GUIZE, --- I never feel "Alone" knowing you are all just a few keyboard strokes away....

With much Peace for Us ALL, Sammy

#57628 - 09/03/05 05:57 AM Re: **help** feeling violated & lost trust again( Mirroring?)
Pat Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/28/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Canada
questions are hard. try what is easy to ask your self. like- 'am i truly happy?" and depending on the anser " what makes me happy/unhappy?" just strat slow don't rush and don't over think it too. You sound like a great person who just needs some friends be hind you and I'm here for you anytime! And the sounds of it everyone eles feels the same way. If you ever need to you can send me a personal letter if you wont or just see how everyone is doing right here! \:\) But like I said start small with the questions and go from there! I hope I've been a little help \:\)
ok. we will not let you be alone and we should be here when you need us it might take a day to get back at you (lol) but we are here for you!

Your friend Pat

EdO- no one should ever be hurt like we have and no one should have the pain that we hold in our harts thourgh life.WE will fight it and WIN !!

#57629 - 09/05/05 02:21 AM Re: **help** feeling violated & lost trust again( Mirroring?)
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Something tells me that you're ahead of him in the healing process, and it's very frustrating for you.

Maybe he feels overshadowed by you and your grip of what's going in YOUR life ?

You're right to expect boundaries, but does he feel controled by them? We all know how much we hate control because our abuse was based upon control.

Maybe the compromises you're trying for are the only practical answer?


Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#57630 - 09/08/05 01:42 AM Re: **help** feeling violated & lost trust again( Mirroring?)
Mystic Rhythm Offline

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 96
Loc: Limbo, clawing my way out...
Sammy, your husband sounds a lot like my father - unwilling to change. This is the impression I'm getting, and if I'm wrong, I apologize.

My father was simply unwilling to change for his family. He worked the barest of minimums to pay for his drinking at the local tavern next to his office, and brought piddly squat to the table and the roof over our head. No idea if he was into prostitution, but it wouldn't surprise me with all the drinking he did.

My point being that until one chooses to make a change in his or her life, it's pointless to even bother arguing or forcing them to do so. They'll only follow along at best, or simply refuse at worse, maybe even becoming violent to the people who have their best interest at heart. I can easily hear and understand that his "loving and caring words" are just that - words.

Humans respond best through actions. Very hard to lie through actions. Very easy to lie with words.

Please forgive me for this next observation, but in my own past experience, I've seen friends (women) hold on to the spark of goodness that lies in a very bad man, hoping it will consume the evil that permeates the man. Works in Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, might work in real life for some, but chances are, won't work for most people. I know it's a negative point of view, but it's also the reality of some men and women and nothing you can do or say will change them or force them to change.

I'll echo other posts above and say that right now, YOU are the most important person that needs YOU. If he truly wishes to change, he'll make his choice, not you. So stop stretching yourself thin in hoping he'll change and focus on YOU right now.


"Don't give up and lose the chance to return to innocence" - Enigma, Return to Innocence

#57631 - 09/08/05 02:04 AM Re: **help** feeling violated & lost trust again( Mirroring?)
kolisha54 Offline

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
MR - you are very gentle in your comments. I would like to know, though, does your opinion change for those of us who are simply experiencing the great Freeze Out that seems to happen with many relationships with survivors?

Also, I could be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to recall that there have been times when Mr. Sammy was really appearing to have changed dramatically - if someone is "doing the wave" (vacillating back & forth between becoming kinder & then backsliding) at what point can do we throw up our hands & say "enough is enough" this will never change?

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

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