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#57570 - 01/19/04 08:22 PM Re: New To This Board--Have Many Questions
PAS Offline

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
>>>But there's alot of stuff there that I don't think applies to me, which I imagine is normal. I don't think I wobble, as they say. Think I'm pretty well grounded, as related to that. Everyone has some degree of mood swings;
mine aren't any worse than anyone else's. Whatever has happened to me in the past, is only manifested by my putting up the wall.

>>>My professional life is great, but my personal
life (as some people see it) sucks. I have developed excellent coping skills and defense mechanisms. Guess I've just accustomed myself to being alone.

Thats the problem. Survivors develop coping skills/mechanisms that help you when you are being abused.. and they serve you pretty well in other places.. i.e. if you are in the military or in policing, etc.. but....

I bet that the wobble and anxiety starts when he is in a relationship, hence the wall.

I'm an abuse survivor so is my fiance (why i'm on here) and i can tell you that in many aspects of my life i'm pretty sane, capable, normal.. etc (whatever normal is) but its when i get into relationships too that I am a mess.. and my fiance is/was too...

Abuse does not always affect all aspects of your life.. but relationships is the place that this affects you the most.

>>>I read some of the site last night, then again this a.m. Honestly, this morning when I thought about the site, I got the thought of "what a bunch of wussy, touchy feely, anti-gun, anti-war, liberal asses!" Denial? Hmmm...maybe.

I'd say so.

I guess he's totally fine and ok in this world as long as he does not want to have a relationship.

If he does he's got a lot of work to do.


#57571 - 01/19/04 08:28 PM Re: New To This Board--Have Many Questions
PAS Offline

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
>>>>I don't believe GOD made us to be a solitary species, and instead made us to be loving and connected to others. If it wasn't for his breaking it off with me so suddenly, I would never had known he was suffering emotionally

Indeed God did not make us to be solitary, but abuse histories can cause us to act in that way as a protective mechanism.

>>>I believe that love is still there buried somewhere.....hiding. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, but worth waiting for. At least for today.

How long do you want to wait? I know you dont want to right now, but eventually you may have to make a decision for yourself, and be open to someone who may come along who WILL be able to do relationships!!!

>>>He's very special to me. I only want him to be happy and do not to make him feel guilty, or overly stressed.

But what about your happiness?
What about your specialness?

>>>I'm really on my own it feels.

he has made it clear he doesn't do relationships.. i'd say you are on your own!

And that is not to say there is anything wrong with many aspects of this guy, sounds like a good guy to be friends with, to have fun with, but if you are looking to be in a serious committed emotionally intimate relationship, he has made it very clear that he is not the person for you!!

Sorry to be blunt but I can only see this ending in heartbreak for you!

I have beeen here before.. and it is tough.. someone has everything going for them EXCEPT they just are so emotionally scarred that they can't do relationships!

#57572 - 01/20/04 02:27 AM Re: New To This Board--Have Many Questions
ConcernedGal Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 19
Loc: California
Thanks PAS.

You're right on! I do deserve to be with someone that can love me, and if that's where I end up going then it will be because it's the right time. He's been very honest and has not made any attempt to deceive me with respect to coming back to me. He's been very straightforward about the possibility that he may never be OK in a relationship again. That's why I've come here.

I guess I first needed to understand what he's experiencing, and how serious this all is, so I could ascertain what I was up against. Without therapy for him there would be no possibility for us and I know that. I can live with that. I'm not so insecure that I will be there for him indefinitely, but, I can't just say "see ya' later 'cuz you're sick" either. I will take the opportunity to go out with another if the opportunity avails itself. He knows that. But, I told him I'm not looking right now. It's too soon after our breakup and I don't jump from one relationship to another. Not good for the soul. So, don't think I'm a wilting flower without him. He just loved me the way I loved him and was perfect for me...for a while anyway.

Because he recently made a comment that he doesn't know if he can follow through with therapy, I now know that I really don't have any say so, or control, over my future with him. I suspect he's entertaining thoughts to back out. I won't be surprised if he tells me that anyway.

I tend to go through my own mood-swings where this is concerned, and today is not a good day for me at all. Work is bad, lost my wallet, and I'm beginning to hear rumblings of him backing out of therapy. I don't want him to do it for me....he has to do it for himself, but I guess I gauge how worthy I was to him by his seeking treatment or not. Probably not a fair thing to think, but there were two of us involved together...not just him. He made sure I was good and connected, and then dropped the bomb. I'm angry for that. I didn't need another failed relationship under my belt. He just was sooooo stable, it seemed.

I think child abuse is THE saddest thing in this world. I had my own issues to deal with when I got sober, but this is so much more horrific. I want all of you survivors to know how proud I am that you are trying to work through your pain. Just taking that first step is soooo important. Just like in AA/NA, and I admire you all for that. It can't be easy, but I believe you will get whole one step at a time. I attended AA meetings for the first 7-8 years of my sobriety!! Not to mention one-on-one therapy off and on for two years, and marriage counseling off-and-on. Sheesh.....I've been severely therapized!!

I appreciate each response that I'm getting here.


#57573 - 01/20/04 07:26 PM Re: New To This Board--Have Many Questions
PAS Offline

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
>>>>I guess I first needed to understand what he's experiencing, and how serious this all is, so I could ascertain what I was up against. Without therapy for him there would be no possibility for us and I know that. I can live with that.

I guess the one thing that is really key is that people who have been abused/traumatized, particularly sexually, the whole concept of being intimate, physically or emotionally is just so overwhelming that it just sets off so many alarm bells that they often go into a seriuos deep freeze ("the wall") and until they process the issue

So whiel your friend says he does not have PTSD I would beg to differ - he was abused intimately in a close relationship so naturally trauma responses (checking out, the wall, etc.) will show up when he is in a similar siutation - wont necessarily leave him totally unfunctional in all aspets of his life just those that remind him subconsciously of the abuse.

>>>>Because he recently made a comment that he doesn't know if he can follow through with therapy, I now know that I really don't have any say so, or control, over my future with him.

I dont think it is possible for him to really be in a relatioship unless he does get therapy. Unfortunately...

>>>>I tend to go through my own mood-swings where this is concerned, and today is not a good day for me at all.

Of course! You are still in the throes of grief and loss yourself. You really liked this guy, you had high hopes, you invested time and energy and felt good about this.. and now you are realizing it will not happen. You see a GREAT guy who has been so affected by abuse, you tend to focus on that one thing that you feel is keeping you from that great guy.. hard not to be angry about this!!!

>>>I didn't need another failed relationship under my belt. He just was sooooo stable, it seemed.

Been there. Done that. Many times. I can completely understand.

>>>I've been severely therapized!!

Me too! I've had about 12 shrinks since 1989, 3 social workers, two outpatient psychiatric nurse therapists, been to ACoA for years, hypnotherapy, been on antidepressants twice, sleeping pills off and on, tranquilizers once, couples therapy, EMDR and hypnotherapy. Sheesh! I should have my B.A. in psychology by now!

#57574 - 01/21/04 01:04 AM Re: New To This Board--Have Many Questions
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I'd say he's nearly there....soooooo frustrating !

I'm no expert on PTSD, and I know I denied it with a vengance when my T said I displayed all the symptoms. So he explained, and I did some research, and he was right. So what ? it's another label to add to the many I've collected on the way as far as I'm concerned. But having the label makes sense of some of my behaviours.
And for so long I couldn't make any sense of them, why did I do things that I didn't really want to do? why did I take huge risks ?

I didn't know any of the answers, but my life became intolerable so answers had to be found. Perhaps a level of intolerance has to be reached before we feel compelled to act ?
I know my friend who went through the divorce from hell felt like your friend, all he wanted was his own company, his hobbies and peace and quiet.
He's just moved in with his girlfriend, 13 years younger and as loud as they come ! \:D
But he did it in his time, on his terms.
Is there something about men that makes us more wary of getting hurt again ?
I'm sure that we only do anything when we've run out of alternatives though :rolleyes:

I like my touchy - feely side now, It took some getting used to, and I reacted against it. But it can exist perfectly happily alongside the old 'macho' me ( believe that, you'll believe anything ! \:D ) - well, maybe not macho, but the rough- arsed, slob image I cultivated for so long.
We can do both, maybe not perfectly, but we can at least try. If I fart in bed I say "sorry" now.


Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#57575 - 01/21/04 01:26 AM Re: New To This Board--Have Many Questions
ConcernedGal Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 19
Loc: California

Are you male or female? I'm getting female, but can't be sure.

Anyway. I guess what I find interesting is that he was in three sexual marriages before me. He was in a relationship with a gal named Mary just for the sex for an extended period. It was mutual between them that it was just for the sex. She was rather promiscuous and wasn't interested in him for more.

Why, with me, could he not have the sexual intimacy and broke it off, but he could with his wives and past girlfriend's? Was it because he saw in me a person who was not going to just take off at the slightest provocation? That it had had gotten too serious? I know the others don't have anything to do with me, I'm just not understanding what it was about me that sent him over the brink. My personality? My experience and comfort with therapy, 12 step programs and recovery?

I now believe the sex brought up the deep pain. It must have made him sick to some extent. That's the only thing I can think of, and he wouldn't tell me that for fear I would think it was me instead of the activity that made him ill.

I asked him if he's testing me for loyalty. He said "no" very sincerely.

It would be hard for me to say goodbye during this period, but if he doesn't do the footwork then I would consider that a silent "f/u" to me. Passive resistant or passive aggressive? Although he would never see it as that.

Alcoholics are given ultimatums all the time. I guess an example would be me drinking myself into oblivion every night, and being told by those who loved me that either I get some help or they won't hang around. I would be expected to do something. People don't HAVE to hit a "bottom" before they get help anymore. We can help them along by showing them they aren't alone and they are loved. I know it's different here since we're not married, and I have no real ties to him.

To settle for friendship, with him doing nothing to make this break-up into a positive, would be very telling. I'm giving him a litte while to follow up with a new referral, but I won't keep giving support to someone who doesn't need it. He only needs my support if he's going through the trials and tributions of therapy. I think he's moving into an area of minimizing his issues, now that the dirty work of breaking up with me is no longer an issue.

All this writing and talking situation is actually helping me to move forward albeit exhausting. The more I write, the closer I get to making some changes for me. Especially when he tells me he's not sure he can go through with it. He has called some here "wussies", but these "wussies" weren't too "wussie" to get help! Are you reading this b/friend? :-)

It takes courage to get help and face the whispering demons. Only "wussies" stay "as sick as their secrets" (A fine AA term). I also firmly believe that it won't get better, but only worse. Either physically or emotionally he cannot maintain the strict control he manages for himself indefinitely. He already suffers from bad migraines, which I think HE even believes has to do with the crap he's carrying around.

Like I said before to him in an e-mail, I may do him a favor and just give up on waiting. Then he wouldn't have to do a thing but live his life alone as he's most comfortable. I'd hate to see the waste of that, but life has to go on for me at some juncture. If he can't do it for himself, then do it for me. We have learned that when companies force their employees into recovery programs they get sober. And sometimes alcoholics can only muster up the reason to get sober for someone other than themselves. I can't see a lot of difference here, since many alcoholics were also sexually molested and abused. Admitting we have a problem and then facing it is a very scary adult thing to have to do. Fear doesn't offer up motivation to face horrors like this. But, what choice is there really? Do nothing? I guess I'll end by saying that millions have dealt with their demons, I think he has what it takes to do so also. Then again, if he doesn't.....well, God Bless His Heart.

Keep up the good work that all of you are doing. I admire you all greatly for your individual hard work, and the time you put in here for the newcomers like me who just ramble on....


#57576 - 01/21/04 02:05 AM Re: New To This Board--Have Many Questions
ConcernedGal Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 19
Loc: California

You crack me up!! Thanks for the great input.

What did you mean "He's nearly there?" Do you mean he's close to seeking help? I sure as hell hope so.....
He's reading these messages so it's good that you men are responding.

I'm long winded, but most of it is therapeutic for me more than anything else. And good for you at your progress!!

When you talked about your friend who just moved in with his girlfriend, I have to assume he sought out therapy or else he wouldn't be seeking companionship, correct?

Labels are important. I know that doesn't make sense to those who have never been in recovery, but I'm AA/Alinon (called a double-winner)NA & ACA. But, incest survivor was not my primary problem although I was treated for more covert/indirect sexual issues during marriage counseling and in early sobriety therapy. I have other insecurities now, but nothing hugely serious. I guess if we had gotten married, I would have had a better chance of being influential in his getting help. Maybe I'm just a catalyst to start the seed growing in his head. He's probably saying "dang, why did I have to meet her!" :-)

Is it a true statement, from the survivors perspective, if I was to say that his parents still control him even though they are only in his life very little? That until he gets help they will continue to influence him negatively?

He talks with his dad on the phone maybe once every weekend, but he avoids his mother as much as possible. When she does get through to him, she has the ability to frustrate him alot. It's like a love/hate relationship. Instead of cutting her loose for good, he goes awhile without speaking to her, then she manages to get through again. He continues to send her money out of duty, even though she offers him only negatives. It seems like a sick connection to me. She controls him still.

I believe his father does too. He cannot stick up for himself, and settles for his dad's "morsels" of interest in his life. The father was very intimidating and cold when he was growing up. His father is dealing with either prostate or colon cancer (in remission right now, I believe) so his dad may only be around a couple more years. I'd only tolerate enough to get my inheritance if I was him, but I'm not him, and I don't have the emotional connection b/friend does with him.

I have a male friend who was physically abused by a violent father, along with his brothers. I asked him what happened to his dad and he said "he died before I got a chance to kick his ass." Just like that! I find that to be a healthy response. To hate your abuser and be able to talk about hating them. Sometimes they deserve to be hated. I hated my mother for not taking my brothers and I away from my alcoholic father. But in those days women stayed. She didn't drive and one of my brothers is handicapped. She was stuck as stuck could be in those times.


#57577 - 01/24/04 01:12 AM Re: New To This Board--Have Many Questions
RICK57 Offline

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Concerned Gal / Confused Gal - I am working my way through the posts tonight and will surprise everyone by giving my shortest response yet. Which will surprise everyone (now avoids going into lengthy explanation in brackets but still uses those bloody brackets).

1/ Everyone here has issues, that's why we are here (or we are supporting someone that needs to come here). We need good people to help us resolve those issues, however we cannot and should not expect anyone to help us if we do not help ourselves. *You are welcome to give us a kick to get us moving (well me anyway).
2/ We all deserve a good life that is very positive in all aspects. We are all also responsible for trying to build that life for ourselves - I can blame my perv, and have done for years if I do not achieve what I want. That BASTARD is NOT GOING TO WIN ANYMORE
3/ We all have a duty to ourselves to have that life.
4/ Every time that 'the abuser' pops into our minds, build up a defence that tells him to go away on holiday (**** off and travel) - this is difficult, but building that contempt helps.
5/ People here help - accept it... I'm not going to get into the olympics, but you seem to have done a marathon with Your Sobriety - I award you a GOLD MEDAL for achievement.

Best wishes and a smile... Rik - I could never do I'm learning.

*Might not have specifically answered your questions, but a summary of what we can and should be!

*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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