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#56434 - 12/03/03 09:05 PM Re: survivors in love in Paris
Tom S. Offline

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
Caetel; I am not able to follow all the text on my screen, and I can in no way understand French; but, I understand your boyfriend was sexualized by his mother.
I also was sexualized by my mother and taught about male/female sexual acts at a very young age, and until she left when I was 10.
It will leave an individual with a distorted perception of what God intended for them in regard to living with a wife, and producing a family. You BOTH need to start from basics, like children do.
You must allow your man to understand that you do not expect anything from him but a safe companionship [even if it does not involve sex at the present moment] and foremost and above all....NEVER under circumstance compare him to another man. Not even a store front maniquin or picture in a magazine. He must always be first and NEVER feel threatened by anyone else, just like he felt with his mother. YOUR admiration and YOURS alone is what matters.
He has to substitute his mothers trust in you. [he feels threatened by a pressure to have sex with you, so he uses the other girl from college as a defense tool.] He will never want to look at another girl, let alone compare you to anybody else unless he is threatened. This is a sign so be aware if he begins to do this. No one compares their mother unfavorably to anybody else do they?
Then and only then can he begin to feel safe enough to be comfortable exploring other things like closeness and non-sexual touch with another woman who is not his mother. [do you 2 kiss? if so, how. like a son would his mother?]
He was victimized and taught how to think and act by his mother not another girl or even at an appropriate age. Neither were you, so go back to basics, and learn together.
Sexual awakening will come when he feels safe. It comes because everyone has an inate desire to reproduce and have a family, if for no other reason like impulse. [more security] And if you are patient the reward will be a life-long relationship with another who will regard you higher than his own mother. Not many men will treat you like that. A lot of other women may call it being smothered, or a clinging vine, but your man will protect you in not only his actions but his mind as well. [my wife never has to touch a door when we are out] He understands too well what he needs to feel safe, and will treat you in a manner he wants to be treated. He will run from the advances of another woman to the safety of you. Not all women want or need this kind of protection, are you ready for it?
Finally; I will mention one thing that I feel most important, even though it is rather graphic, and may result in censorship here. But, when sexual awakening does begin to occur, be most patient at that point. Play like children if necessary and do not expect adult responses or climatic results. He MUST feel safe. Just be thoughtful and patient. There are a lot of other basics first. When he feels safe enough to be that close to you, [espicially without clothes] allow him time to simply connect without activity 'IF' that is required and no adult like pressure to finish or perform. It may be difficult for you to restrain and not achieve results, but there is the rest of your life if you really want him. You may lead him in time, but remember; safety and not pressure and NEVER expect him to be like anyone else. It must ALWAYS be just him and you.

My second wife and I were introduced by mutual friends who knew we were not socially adjusted and were always uncomfortable around others. [sexual fears kept us from competing in social circles] We could not have met any other way but through persistant mutual frineds who thought they were being cute. But during our first miserable date, we both discovered a lot of common ground and soon became secure disclosing superficial, yet very important things with each other that could never be disclosed to anyone else. Like the fact we simply had parents that were not like other peoples, and home was not like what we saw on TV. No real specifics or graphic details, just generalities. We became sexual the second time we ever met, on our very next date, because we made the discovery we were safer with each alone from other people than we were safe by ourself. We continue to feel that way today 21 years later. We have friends, but no one close, not even our immediate families. We have substituted each other for the rest of the world, and we like it that way. We both have had to deal with things no one else on earth could have tolerated, [therapists have been a major stumbling block and a whole other story] and we do not in any way expect anyone who has not been sexualized as a child to begin to understand. But we both know the feelings that victimization can cause, and we share a realtionship that is not like other peoples, and we don't care if they ever understand. We have one child who is 13 and we lost another. My other 2 children are grown, but are closer to us than anyone else. My wife has a supervisory job in a hospital lab where she has worked since about the time we came together [we met at school and she was in training] and she has met our financial needs throughout our life together. I worked away from home when necessary to supplement out income as a registered nurse. She needed my support to advance in her career, and I needed her support to build our house and family. God just worked out our family in a different fashion from the rest of the world, but it is no less strong. He will do yours the same way if this is what you desire.
I have related these facts about me before on this board to other people in this same situation with a SA survivor, and I hope and pray you find the same comfort and security in your relationship that my wife and I have found in each other.
Best regards, Caetel. [hope i spell that correct]
Tom S. in Tn.

' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

#56435 - 12/04/03 12:04 AM Re: survivors in love in Paris
Caetel Offline

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
Waow ! Tom ! I can't thank you enough for all your insights. I never looked at it this way.
Especially about him being the only one for me. Sure I have noticed he is very insecure because I have a lot of very good friends and some of them are guys. I have noticed how he can look jealous and he more than once imagined I had some kind of affairs with some of them. He is completely wrong but I have to reassure him though I often miss out completely: I just don't see him being jealous.
He knows I have loved someone very strongly before so I guess it has been an obstacle for a long time. I made it clear in June that I was really in love with him and that I had gotten over that previous relationship.
We had never kissed really, apart from kissing on the cheeks which is a casual greetings between friends in France. I am often frustrated because it is hard to feel the closeness and not act upon it (even if it's just a hug or a cuddle).
I have noticed his care. V is so considerate with me. I have never met a guy who would be so sweet with me ! He always make sure I am served first at a restaurant, or he would order drinks and especially go to the bar so I don't have to walk (even when himself doesn't order a drink), he is always there to give a hand. He even did my food shopping for when I came back from South Africa because it was Bastille day and the shops were all closed. He was so cute carrying his shopping bags \:\) . Last week I asked him if he could post a letter for me and he did not want my money, he just wanted to do something nice for me. I love being so much cared for.
My question is when do I know he is fully trusting me ? Lately he started talking about himself. I felt it was very positive but he is keeping himself away this week.
About intimacy, I know he is very uncomfortable with his body and with nakedness. I don't have that problem but I know that when we get to that point well that would be terrific ! Closeness and physical intimacy without sex is fine by me. I mean I invented the concept \:\) !!!!
I am going to read all the answers I had so far and think again ! Will certainly ask questions !
Thank you so much for taking the time and share your experience with me
Tom you wrote it write : Caetel (it stands for Cahétel, who is my guardian angel \:\) )

Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

#56436 - 12/04/03 01:32 AM Re: survivors in love in Paris
Tom S. Offline

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
So glad I could be of help, Caetel. There are other people in the world just like us, and it is important to know that even though we are a different minority, we have much stronger family relationships, even if we can't be social animals.
My wife and I both are deeply insecure especially in the area of close personal relationships and sex. But as soon as we met, we discovered we no longer needed to feel insecure with each other and found the greatest relief in our life having a wife/husband that could accecpt being insecure and unable to function in way accecptable to the rest of the world. We both acted stupid but we both found it a relief to see someone else act the same way.
On the job, my wife is very successful and a supervisor of several people, and carries much responsibility, and interracts with people at that level more efficiently and professionally than the people who proceeded her. But in the area of sensuality or man/woman personal relationships; well just let me say I was blessed to have her given to me because I am also totally inadequate to function macho as well. Many times when one of us is afraid, we have to go back to being kids again. We start from basics, even if it means we just simply connect together and hold each other to overcome fears and insecurity. I was never allowed to do that before, it always had to be a complete sex act.
Always remember it is essential for your relationship to always think of the other person first, and never have anyone else to compete with for your attention and security. You don't need money or presents, but just remember it's always him and you alone even if you are in a crowd. My wife and I hold hands whenever possible, and used to do the same with our kids until they getting independant with age. It feels safe. You must be ready for the constant closeness, and no male friends that could offer competetion for affection. It's not for everybody, especially if you think you are being smothered because your mate worries when you are out of sight.
We send messages and phone each other whenever we need to hear from someone, and we expect it also. We are different I assume, but we would not consider anything else.
Once we had the security of each other, we could begin to unravel the mess before we met. I have been very angry before, but the thought of having to be seperated from my wife has kept me from ever acting on it.
Rember, if you choose him, it will be only the 2 of you until he [and you] feels safe enough to interract outside your relationship.
Best wishes; Tom S. in Tn.

' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

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