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#5595 - 09/16/02 02:28 AM Need advice!!!!!!

Ok, I am not used to doing this, but I need some advice. I am 16 years old living in northern california. And this last year has been hell on ice in so many ways, my head feels like it is ready to split. I wont go into it all, but everything I had and knew a year ago is now reversed. My dad is in jail for molesting me for 16 years - from birth to the day after my 16th birthday. My mom is not supportive at all. In fact, I am the fag boy, demon seed that put him away for telling on accident. She basically tells me she should have had an abortion and that would have solved the problem. Anyways, I live in a small town (2500 people) and everyone here knows the situation. I lost all my friends, my girl friends, and everyone.

Well, now I am back in school and it is hell to say the least. I am in fights almost everyday because the others start in with me for being a "daddy fucker." If I am caught one more time fighting, I will be suspended and then next time will be expulsion. It sucks at school to say the least. I do well in some classes and goof off in others because they are too boring. I read a book a day on all sorts of topics. Right now, philosophy is on the top of my list. Just finished Kant and Hegel this weekend. Kierkegaard, Camus, and Tillich are my next three. I love studying, but I cant take school anymore. I could drop out and get my GED in November, but some people think that that is not a good move.

Some have recommended going to a half way house or a place for run aways or even other options. But this is my house. I basically pay the bills here now that Dad is away. But I cant be emancipated for a few reasons. Mom wont let me. My current state of employment is not one the judge would be proud of or sanction. And this fucking town is against me. But this is the only place I know as home I guess.

I have wanted so many times to just end it all and stop the suffering. And then something inside of me whispers to me to try harder. I have wanted to run from this mess. I have the resources to do so and survive for at least a year comfortably. But running means that I lose what little I have here. I dont know why I feel an attachment here. I mean it is not as if I feel comfort at the house. I feel more comfort at the bridge that I have contemplated driving off of! Maybe that is all it is. Just the knowledge that standing on your own grave gives a kind of comfort.

But anyways, I am not planning on doing that any time soon, so dont focus on that part. I am just looking at options on how to get out of my mess at school. I have had a few kids jump me at the same time, but I can take care of myself even though I am small. Black belts do come in handy sometimes! I have stopped most of the crap that happens until now. But is it even worth it? I mean they still taunt behind my back, write things in the bathroom or on the outside walls of the school for all to see, ignore me most of the time, do things to my stuff when I am not looking. It just isnt worth the aggravation anymore. But I want to succeed in life if I can. I am not sure about college. It means I would have to move away from here too.

Ok, so if you cant tell, I AM FUCKING SCARED! I know I can do alot of things, I am smart enough to do almost whatever I want. But I do have a few things worth sticking around for. I have a great therapist in Susanville a couple of hours away, my house, my privacy at the house when I am there alone (mom only comes back for a day or two a week, thank God), my cars (a sweet Karman Ghia, an old Duster, a spruced up Nova, and my Honda Ninja that I rarely use, only on the self loathing days).

I know I can mak lots of choices right now in regards to my life. But I am so afraid of the consequences of them. I do not want to lose my freedom that I have earned by fire and worked so hard to keep. I do not want to lose my house and comfort. I do not want to lose my life. I do not want to lose my sanity which is tenuous at best (I am DID [MPD] although fused fairly well right now). I dont want my health to deteriorate (I have Hep C and am taking pills and injections for the next 38 weeks). I dont want to sacrifice everything on a guess.

Ok, now you know I am 16. I know I act like a child with this stuff, but this isnt easy. So I am not sure which way I should turn. I just know that this has to end one way or another soon. There has to be more to life than this. Everyone on here keeps telling me that I dont know what love is yet, what my father gave me wasn't love. Well, now others are saying that I haven't lived yet either. Well, whatever I had with my dad and whatever I have done for the last 16 years on this hell hole has messed me up pretty bad. So if it seems like I can't see the obvious choice to make, please realize that my obvious choices in the past have been the wrong ones according to everyone else, BUT IT IS ALL I KNOW!!!! I try to learn the differences and how things ought to be. But they seem like fairy tales. Yes, I want to be loved. Yes, I want safety. Yes, I want security. Yes, I want NORMALCY. But all of these seem rather fleeting right now. They seem as coporeal as the mist or fog of San Francisco. You can feel it caressing your skin in the twilight hours, but the sun just scorches it away. Someday I hope that if this stuff is real, I will grab ahold of it and never let it escape from my clutches. But until then, I am just surviving the best way I know how and hoping and praying to God that it isn't an illusion. That I am not just a brain in a jar on some mad scientist's shelf with electrodes making me feel the things I am.

It is Ironic that I am saving Tillich as my last work in this bout of Philosophy. "The Courage to Be" sounds daunting to me. But, I do not know what outcome will surface in my journey. So please, I beg of you who care at all for this Lion Cub, just give me some advice that makes sense, some advice that wont make me hide in the tall savannah grasses, the kind that wont make me shrink away and do the foolish things I do when I act out.

I was with a couple last night. They made me feel like I was adult and a child at the same time. I wasn't sure if I was happy being in either camp really. But I guess that is the part of growing up that makes our transitions feel so awkward. I feel like one of you as adults and also like a little kid running in fear looking for my apron to cry into. But there is no apron anymore. My mother has made that very clear. All I have left is you.

Sorry for my tedious text. I will sign off. I hope one of you can answer me with some solace for my well is about dry. And the sun is smiting me something fierce. What, pray tell, is my logical choice? Do I turn toward life or death down this twisted, desolate, pothole pocked highway? Which way makes sense to you?

Kennedy (the non-lion hearted)

#5596 - 09/16/02 02:45 AM Re: Need advice!!!!!!
orodo Offline

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...

I wish I had the answers for you. Be here for me, if not for yourself. Focus on the future, and what you can do for you. Life is all about choices that I make. I choose to be, painful as it might be from time to time. Be well Stay well.

Your friend and "brother"


It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

#5597 - 09/16/02 03:18 AM Re: Need advice!!!!!!
Broken Offline

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
You are a pretty tough guy to deal with all that. Maybe it doesnt feel like it, but what you are doing right now is incredible. If you need out, just start calling every state agency and charity group you can find that even remotely applies to you, tell them your mother is emotionally and physicly abusive, you are being discriminated against and violently attacked in school, and that should be enough to start something. There are places you can go, and the GED is a good option. So is the california high school proficiency exam, look into that. I took it when i was 16 and i stopped going to school.

If you are capable, get a job somewhere, if you dont have one allready. It will get you away from home and earn you enough cash to get the hell out of your shitty town. You need to get out on your own as soon as you can. Fuck people like that, let them rot in thier own skins.

Cities are harder in some ways, but there are more options and more charities availible to you. If nothing else, just grab a phone book and start calling charities one by one until you find someone who will listen and can do something.

That is the best advice i can give, and it isnt much, considering where i am right now. But i moved out of my abusers home and that is something i dont regret. Just hang on, until you can take off safely. Dont just run away, you need a plan. Maybe you could get into a group home or something, just keep searching, try outside your town. If you find yourself needing to run, make sure you keep tunning TO somewhere, not just away.

#5598 - 09/16/02 04:07 AM Re: Need advice!!!!!!
ARW Offline

Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 161
Loc: LA
LC, you were in chat the other night - killer music knowledge as I recall.
What does your shrink have to say about all this? I can't imagine anyone wanting you to stay in your house under those conditions. I would ask your shrink and/or use this site to locate someone in your area who handles these issues specifically. I also agree with Broken that running is a bad idea unless you've got somewhere to run to - and preferably someone; a shelter, shrink, etc. A new environment can be overwhelming on top of the emotional rollercoaster you're currently on. I wish I could give you a great place to go, but if you're near the bay area, there's bound to be good options. I do have a friend who's dealt with an issue like this in your area. If has help, I'll pass it along.
Meantime, I would advise focusing on a few things:
-seeking out advice and support from a group formed by professionals.
-making a realistic plan to get out of your present town asap.
-looking towards finding an above board gig.
Not to patronize at all, you're obviously plenty smart, but you don't want to make the mistake of assuming you can strike out completely on your own. Get some serious, reliable back-up. Then, I would say, get out of Dodge, pronto.
Keep your head on, LC, like you are, and be cautious with the philo. - a little goes a long way. It's great stuff, but you may be better helped by books that deal directly with your issues. It's actually more soothing looking square at the problem than you may think. You'll find there's a lot of us out there with a similar history. And a lot of good ways to heal. Also, add some zen teaching to your regimen. Great books on Mindfulness and Vipassana meditation. Helped me a lot. Dig Nietzsche and Kierkegaard too (my hotmail handle is his pseudonym, hilarius bogbinder) but mostly cuz it's nice to know there were people out there way more fucked up than me! The point is that you should be cautious that you don't crawl into your pain and shut the door, which a lot of philo. may do to you. One of the greatest things I learned from the amazing guys on the site is to focus on the good of your self (past and present) as well as the bad. That may seem impossible, but it's not. It's an incredibly helpful thing to do.
Good luck LC.
-Al ;\)

In every cry of every man,
In every Infant's cry of fear,
In every voice, in every ban,
The mind-forged manacles I hear.
-William Blake

#5599 - 09/16/02 05:20 AM Re: Need advice!!!!!!
Healing_Brother Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Arkansas
i am not sure what to say to help you, but i want you to know that i am ALWAYS here for you!! and i will be adding more later when i think of things!!

#5600 - 09/16/02 09:28 AM Re: Need advice!!!!!!
Roy Offline

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Los Angeles

These guys have all given you some good advice. Reread what ARW and Broken (I hate calling him that) have to say carefully. They are both, and I am as well, advising you to proceed with making changes, but to do so with a plan. This is a time to take action but not impulsively. It is most unfortunate that your life has been so difficult so far, and very unfair. It is hard to understand why some people get way more than their share of burden. Hopefully, you will find meaning in this someday and put the knowledge and growth you gather from these circumstances to good use. But you have to take good care of yourself, and travel a ways in life before you get there.

You are indeed a tough guy in a tough situation. Do not underestimate yourself and your ability to persevere. You are fortunate in that you recognize when you are overwhelmed and know when to ask for help. What you lack is the experience and wisdom that hopefully (not always!) comes with age. The fact that you came on here with a sense of humility and asked for help bodes well for your future.

Your options will be limited due to the fact that you are a minor, so prepare for obstacles and frustration in getting your needs met. Also, you might look more extensively into the prospect of becoming emancipated. I'm not sure that you need parental consent, you may be able to petition the court. Something to do some more research on. For the time being, you will be dealing with a lot of agencies, social services, case managers, social workers, etc. I have worked as one of these people (a pretty good one, thank you very much), and I urge you to be patient and persistent with these people. They are generally overworked and underpaid, so remember two things: 1)you are not the only person they have to work with and help and 2)call them, dont wait for returned calls, go in person if necessary, politely insist they pay attention to you. They deal with lots of troubled teens, so it will be to your advantage to be charming and tenacious so they grasp the unique nature of your situation and pay attention to you. Thats just the way it is. My grandfather used to say: "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and that is pretty much true.

I agree with the others, cut your losses and get out of there. Just do it thoughtfully. The first consideration is, of course, how you will support yourself. This is very important!!! At 16, it is highly unlikely you will be able to legally generate enough income to live independently. Seriously consider the risks and consequences of "alternate" forms of income. You mentioned that you have enough money to survive for a year. Thats great, but hang on to it. I am sometimes guilty of magically turning a hundred dollars into a lot more than it is in my head, so be careful. Write down your financial needs on paper, prepare a realistic paper with some cushion built in for the unforseen. The unforseen can be very expensive! Review the budget with someone you trust, your therapist perhaps. I'm trying to say explore all possibilities of support before you rely on your savings. Let that be your "plan B".

How about moving to Susanville for now? Your therapist is there and being two hours away from home should give you enough distance from all the ugliness there. Close enough to not be such a huge and scary transition. Consider the possibility of going into foster care. We all know the horror stories, but most foster families are good people. And remember all this is temporary. With each milestone, turning 18, getting into college, etc., things will get better. Granted, foster care may not be ideal, but it buys you time to make further decisions. I agree with "Broken" that getting your GED or doing high school proficiency exam is not such a bad thing. In the long run, no gives a rats ass whether you graduated or did the GED, as long as you meet the requirements for completion. The same goes for college, unless you are planning on going into academia or running a Fortune 500 company, no one gives a rats ass where you go to college, as long as you get the degree. And I definetely think you should keep college in your sights. It is a great place to take time to figure out who you are and what you are all about. It also buys you time to grow up some more. Definitely an experience not to be missed. The California public higher education system is excellent, one of the best in the world, and pretty inexpensive for California residents, all things considered.(UC Berekely, UC San Diego, Cal State San Francisco, Humboldt State, to name a few). Trust me, it will change your life and you will never regret it.

Your car collection sounds great! That is so awesome you get to play with such cool cars. I am a car freak, too, and I hate to be the one to tell you, but the cars have to go. I know, I know, you don't want to get rid of them and all that, and believe me, I sympathize, but now is not the time to be burdened by such things. Consolidate your resources, take the money you get and buy something boring and sensible for now, probably Japanese. It is important to remember that your identity is not made up of or dependent on what you have or what you do or who you know. This is one area where its all about you, what's inside, how you conduct yourself, your beliefs, your values, your personality. There will always be cool cars to buy and houses and everything else. You have more important tasks before you. Come back to that stuff later at a more appropriate time. Have faith that that will happen.

I also agree with what "Broken" had to say about cities. Harder in some ways but more options. Based on my knowledge level about this stuff at the moment, I think San Francisco would be the best choice. I suspect they have a range of services available to youth, but I would do some major research on this as well. I have a friend who is very actively working in the area of youth services in southern California (where I live) and I know he is well connected. I will consult with him about what might be available. For the time being, I still say Susanville might be the best choice for your first move.

What ARW said about philosophy made sense, too. Great stuff, you will always be a thinker about such things. You might want to put that on the back burner, so to speak. Focus on survival and the important decisions before you. Now is not the time to grapple with the mysteries of life and the universe. For awhile, you will be dealing with things like food, clothing, and shelter. Kirkegaard isn't going anywhere! Ultimately, you will be fine. I'm proud of you for standing up for yourself like you have. Keep in touch, and I will get back to you with any new information I gather about services for youth.

Over and out,

#5601 - 09/16/02 02:24 PM Re: Need advice!!!!!!
ARW Offline

Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 161
Loc: LA
LC,Roy's words are worth their weight in gold. Print them, tuck 'em under your pillow.

BTW my friend up near Frisco does know the place I was mentioning. He'll have a name soon. Though I agree that if your therapist is good, moving near there is a possible first step.


In every cry of every man,
In every Infant's cry of fear,
In every voice, in every ban,
The mind-forged manacles I hear.
-William Blake

#5602 - 09/16/02 02:50 PM Re: Need advice!!!!!!
RecoveringRyan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 28
Loc: new york state

I feel unqualified to offer you any advice, but consider these things if they are helpful to you. You are evidently extremely intelligent and strong. I had a blackbelt in karate while in high school, too, and I still couldn't handle the situation as well as you have. You are so articulate that I struggle to believe you are 16. And you asked for help. You're amazing.

To find out more about colleges, just go to their websites and look at their brochures or prospectuses. Most colleges will accept a GED without any problem, especially if it is accompanied by a discreet letter of explanation. Also your test scores, SAT, Achievement Test, and ACT, will count for a lot, and you seem like you'll ace those easily. So, you can get into a good college whether you do the GED route or complete high school somewhere. Given your intelligence, you should consider UC Berkeley, Stanford and UCLA in California, but look at the top 30 schools nationwide as listed in Businessweek (I may have the magazine confused). Their website will have the article buried in it somewhere. One thing I wasn't aware of until going to college is that most of the top private schools offer need-based financial aid, ie, all you have to do is be smart, you don't need money if you don't have money.

On moving, I understand the desire to stay with what you know. I live with my family now even though they are largely hostile to me. Because of my first erroneous but very strong trust and feeling of security here formed when I was an infant, I strangely feel safer here than elsewhere, even though rationally I know that other people would be nicer to me than my family is. But I am older and can control my family to a great extent. I am not saying don't move; I'm saying that it is understandable not to move. One thing to try is going to visit for a weekend or a week some place where you would like to live and get a feel for what it would be like to live there. This will also give you some breathing room from back home. Stay with a friend, in a youth hostel or in a motel. Also, on moving, since you are underage, one way to scam the apt thing is find somebody who is already renting an apartment and is looking for a roommate. These situations tend to be much more flexible than being on a lease yourself: the landlords don't scrutinize very much, if at all, the duration can be flexible, month-to-month. So you could coast by til your 18 and get a place yourself. Check out for the bay area and other areas. There's another site as well, but I can't remember it offhand. Checking these sites will also give you an idea of availability and price. Maybe you have any distant relatives who would put you up temporarily and then you could stretch that out a bit.

If you move, maybe you could force your Mom to help you out by signing whatever paperwork is necessary with school or whereever so you could pretend like she's there with you or at least supports you. Even if she's useless to you, the administrators in your new school don't need to know that. Do you have any leverage over her? Maybe bribe her if she needs money and you have some. Maybe offer her that you will be moving out. My mother has been willing to do much more to get me to move out and nothing but bitch at me to help me stay and recover.

If you stay in school and you want to go to college, the two important things are that you don't get a criminal record and that your grades are as good as possible. The subject material is unimportant. I've never used high school chemistry, physics or biology, social studies (history), english, or even advanced math for anything. So focus on getting the grade and don't feel guilty about not really caring about the material. If it gets too tough, maybe withdraw for a quarter/semester (this is also fine if well-explained with any college admissions board) or consider the GED or other alternatives. It may not be a good idea to trash your record because the other people in your school and town are ignorant of who you are and what you are going through.

One type of job to consider is computer-related work. You can usually learn it all on your own, and people are accustomed to the idea of young people being prodigies with computers. There will also be more employment for this in northern CA if and when the stock markets go back up.

Reading is good. Have you considered these books?

Philosophy--Allan Bloom (see particularly Closing of the American Mind, Love and Friendship), Leo Strauss (see particularly Liberalism Ancient and Modern: What is Liberal Education?), Alexis de Tocqueville (see particularly Democracy in America, Voyage in America), Jean-Jacques Rousseau (see particularly Emile and Confessions), John Locke (see particularly Thoughts Concerning Education)

Pyschology/Therapy--Alice Miller, Laura Davis and Ellen Bass, Wendy Maltz, Mike Lew, Mic Hunter, Patrick Carnes

Hope it's helpful.


#5603 - 09/16/02 07:51 PM Re: Need advice!!!!!!
ARW Offline

Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 161
Loc: LA
LC - check your private messages. ;\)

In every cry of every man,
In every Infant's cry of fear,
In every voice, in every ban,
The mind-forged manacles I hear.
-William Blake

#5604 - 09/16/02 08:56 PM Re: Need advice!!!!!!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Lion Cub
Remember the words of the Clash song from way before your time ?
"should I stay or should I go now,
If I stay there will be trouble,
If I go it could be double "

Who knows ? You've got attachments to where you live but it's hell. And what's waiting in the next town is unknown.
It aint easy, but I would start to begin a new life away fromt the arseholes around you. Although they will tire of hounding you they wont forget, and years from now a false word in a bar would be enough to have it all slung back at you.
What they say doesn't matter a toss, they're ignorant arseholes, but it'll hurt you every time.

You'll never escape your own memories entirely, but they're going to get easier to deal with, as is being scared.
None of us has a crystal ball to tell us our futures, we're all a bit frightened of what lays ahead.
It's different to being frightened of the current situation, but you're dealing with that. You're thinking hard about it, making options and asking advice.
For that you should feel proud, and I think it'll lead to you deciding your own answers.
And like the way most survivors survive, whatever seems right at the time is usually the best way at the time, or the only way.

Be strong

Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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