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#55895 - 07/23/03 06:22 AM My apologies to all members & guests
jimrh Offline

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
I want to extend my hand in apology to eveyone on this website and especially to Ron and Danny for the messages that I've posted here as well as the tone and content.

I realize that I have hurt many of you by the things that I said and for that I am truely sorry.

In retrospect, I realize I shouldn't have said anything at all and I am both embarassed and ashamed that I acted so childishly and foolishly. \:o

I understand that my emotions are that of at best a 5 year old boy, most likely a 3 year old and I have to deal with that.

I know that mere words cannot take away the hurt and anguish that I may have caused some of you. Perhaps over time my actions will show you that I am sincere.

The realization has hit me that everyone here has tremendous issues that they are dealing with. I know without a doubt that I forgot that.

Please forgive me.

\:\( Jim

#55896 - 07/23/03 08:43 AM Re: My apologies to all members & guests
uncertain Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 22
Hi Jim,

I didn't notice any posts from you with a tone or quality that would require an apology from you - but my internet was down yesterday so maybe that's why!

Anyway... I just wanted to say that I doubt there is anyone that hasn't had to apologize at least once for opening one's mouth without thinking. I think it takes a very decent man to bite the bullet and admit he's made a mistake. I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't forgive others for mistakes. \:\)

I am new and my opinion maybe doesn't hold as much water as those who have been here for ages - but I have noticed men getting upset here from time to time. Not that it's an excuse, but isn't it understandable? I think it is.

For me, I grew up not really being able to say anything to my alcoholic father about how angry I was that he neglected me and scared me, when I needed a dad most he just wasn't there. I think my anger got displaced sometimes over the years and I hurt other people in the process. I am trying to take responsibility for my behaviour instead of blaiming it on others, and that includes fessing up and apologizing when I need to. What more can we do, when we are imperfect creatures?

Love you and and you guys here. I gain a lot of insight here and sense the safety of this place.

#55897 - 07/23/03 01:01 PM Re: My apologies to all members & guests
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Jim you dont have to apologize. We have all been where you were and things can become overwhelming at times. This is a safe place to vent for us all.



#55898 - 07/23/03 04:27 PM Re: My apologies to all members & guests
Thad Offline
Administrator Emeritus

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 1752
Loc: Oakland, CA
I am in awe of your appology - it felt genuine and reflects an important step in your recovery. In it you demonstrate an understanding of why you over reacted.

You have been through a rough timeI think you will see that it is fully accepted by everyone since we all know that our own difficulties can cloud our judgment.

My hope is that you will continue seek help locally as well as come here to continue your valuable contribution to MS. We need you and want you to get through this as best you can. This was a great step toward that. Thanks for posting it.


"..this place isn't a discussion's a portal..." Lupin
"The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off." dwf's AA sponsor.

#55899 - 07/23/03 05:03 PM Re: My apologies to all members & guests
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Thank's for your apology to the guys here.

I genuinly hope you stick around, there's a lot of support here for those of us having a difficult time.


Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#55900 - 07/24/03 02:57 AM Re: My apologies to all members & guests
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
Hey Jim!! Thanks for your apology to MS and I am glad you had a chance to vent and wrestle through issues. We're all here for healing, recovery and support and glad we share the tough as well as the good times with all the guys here on the Boards.

I hope you stick around and share some more with us. You're not really aren't!!


If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

#55901 - 07/24/03 03:57 PM Re: My apologies to all members & guests
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi Jim,

It is kind, and courageous to apologise when we feel we may have unnescesssarily hurt someone. I admire you for your words.

Your emotions, are the emotions of a man who was severly harmed in mind, body and spirit, when he was a beautiful little boy. I used to say that in a lot of things, I feel as though I arrested my emotional development at about age 15 or 16. I need not apologise for that, nor be embarassed about it and neither does anyone else.

We want to mature those emotions, but it takes some help from others, and lots of time, to quietly think, if that is to happen, to the point that we feel we are responding emotional like an adult. Jim, I am not there yet, but I am better. So, progress is possible, it is just that for some of us it takes lots more work than others. You are a man jim, a wounded man. Your emotions were harmed as much as your body, so go easy on yourself, and on us, when we are in the same kind of spot.

Jim, a 3yo or even a 5yo could not write the note you just sent us.

There may be better ways to accomplish a goal. But, even given the fact that we are all trying to get to where we feel WELL, not just less ill, we still need to look at faults we might have as a group, and as individuals, simply because we are men who were sexually assaulted as a boy, or teen, or even as an adult.

So, we do need to practice common snese and a certain level of sensitivity in chat and on the boards. A reminder of that is not a crime against humanity. You did do us a service Jim, but it just got to a point where lots of us were at a bad space at the same time. But, we more than any other group of men should be careful that we do not neglect each other, or discount each other, or fail in common courtesy.

We will always have to forgive each other from time to time. It is just hoped, that each time we learn, and the harsh words get less and less harsh.

One of the Admins of MS reminds us mods that there are going to be days when we will have our spirit hurt deeply simply because we are dealing with people who are deeply hurting. In a sense, he tells us that if that is not something we can endure, then some other service to MS might be better for us.

That part about feeling the hurt, the suffering of a brother and being decent enough to let him cry out and not always be totally gentle, seems like good advice for us whether we are mods or not.


If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

#55902 - 07/24/03 08:28 PM Re: My apologies to all members & guests
Ivanhoe Offline

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
All of you make good points.

Bob, you say that it's not very easy to be totally gentle when a brother is railing against us.
I think that is the test for all of us.
It's the one that my spouse wins every time.

She's the reason that we will make it to our 38th anniversay next month.

God, sometimes, I feel, and act, like such the caveman, swaggering around with my big club, hitting out, breaking egos, kicking down solid ground that we have built together, who the hell do I think I am?

Here is this woman who has stood by me through all of my rage. How does she do it? How can we do it, when one of our brothers lashes out, striking us, really, as maybe he was struck as a five, six, 10 or 15 year old?
"Well, get your shit together, brother, I don't want to hear it, take it, or consider it."

Are we our brother's keeper?

God, guys if there is anyplace on earth, IT IS HERE THAT WE ARE OUR BROTHERS' KEEPER.

Does that give us license to lash out anytime that we have a problem with folks here?

Hell, no.

But do we have the right to lash back, to goad or otherwise poke sticks at our hurting brother(s)? That's certainly our choice, but is it the best one.

"Hey, shithead, get tough with me and I'll verbally clean your clock."

I remember a time, not long ago, that a brother, here, said something offensive to me, about me, and I just sat there, dumbfounded.

The heat suddenly rose in my body temperature, I felt myself breathing faster, the only thing that I could think to do was to hit the off button on my PC. I brushed my teeth and went to bed.

My God, if I'd been a couple of years younger, say around 8, I would have cried myself to sleep.

Instead, I tossed and turned, flipped and flopped, until finally, I threw back the bedcovers and made it back to my computer.

While waiting for the thing to warm up, boot up, I tried to imagine what I was going to say, in either a PM or e-mail. I had calmed down some and was trying my damndest to think of something loving. God, what a challenge, because I was thinking things like, "Up Yours, Get Screwed, Screw Off, Your Mother's a...." I think you get my drift.

As the screen warmed to life, and I made the necessary choices, a plea showed up in the yayoo messenger box, for my attention.

"David, David, are you there? I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you. Let me know that you're OK."

My, God, I just sat there, this time I didn't have to be a couple of years younger.........I cried.

Here it was, almost an answer to my prayer that I would eventually come up with the right thing to say. This was my opening.

That brother and I sat up for an hour or more with one of the best conversations I've had of those....from.......the.....heart.

Heartfelt conversations to you, my brothers,


"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

#55903 - 07/24/03 11:47 PM Re: My apologies to all members & guests
Sans Logos Offline

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5796
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...

I did not feel offended by anything that you wrote, and any response I gave was only to honor my own process. I think this is the best gift that I can give to myself and anyone who's path I cross. Jim, you are doing a marvelous job at honoring your own process and I salute you for that.



Ron Schulz, MSPC, NCC


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