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#525431 - 07/13/18 01:01 PM Re: Trans/Gender issues [Re: SDD757]
Dissociated1 Offline


Registered: 07/11/15
Posts: 36
Loc: Virginia
Your perspective is no less valid than mine, Ceremony. They are both just opinions. I speak from my personal experience, and the experience of others I know whose need to express themselves as another gender was misdiagnosed as transsexual on their first therapy session- after insisting the diagnosis was NOT right for them. I'm not sure why I am being singled out when I was simply agreeing with the OP's observation that "It’s time for psychotherapists to seriously address the unique causes of each individual’s gender dysphoria before encouraging them to pursue hormones and surgery."


Edited by Dissociated1 (07/13/18 01:52 PM)
Edit Reason: correct grammar error
_________________________
Survivor in therapy for Dissociative Identity Disorder
Read my story: http://www.discussion.malesurvivor.org/b...5959#Post485959

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#525432 - 07/13/18 02:35 PM Re: Trans/Gender issues [Re: Dissociated1]
Ceremony Offline
Greeter

Registered: 09/14/16
Posts: 2968
Loc: Minnesota
Well Then, let me express this to you both.

Quote:
"It’s time for psychotherapists to seriously address the unique causes of each individual’s gender dysphoria before encouraging them to pursue hormones and surgery."


That is misleading. Psychiatry/Therapy on the whole in our current time, about 20 yrs, does not push people into Gender Dysphoria, nor hormones, and especially not surgery. There are established protocols.

Your experience perhaps could add that you're aware of current protocol, where for the young there is a vetting process before puberty blockers are given. Then too, adults who bring their concern about their dysphoria, must have the same vetting process. Discussions ensure that before hormones are prescribed, the patient is given time to discuss their concerns, and likewise the physician, because, it will be the physician who ultimately prescribes.

There is a need for more training. What caught my attention here is expressing your opinion with conspiracy in its tone. Like I've already noted, neither of us can prove, nor disprove such a premise, which is what led to my input. What I'm posting does not deny gender issues outside of Dysphoria, I'm well acquainted.

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#525439 - 07/13/18 05:52 PM Re: Trans/Gender issues [Re: SDD757]
Dissociated1 Offline


Registered: 07/11/15
Posts: 36
Loc: Virginia
@Ceremony
I feel as if you are trying to read some sort of anti-transgender agenda in my posts. Hormones and surgery are established protocols...for Gender Dysphoria. Psychiatry/Therapy can't push anyone into the condition. But it can misdiagnose a person with a different reason for needing to express himself as another gender as having it.

Originally Posted By Ceremony
for the young there is a vetting process before puberty blockers are given. Then too, adults who bring their concern about their dysphoria, must have the same vetting process. Discussions ensure that before hormones are prescribed, the patient is given time to discuss their concerns.

I am intimately familiar with transgender "protocol" having gone through it myself in 2009, and have been on a full transition level estrogen/spironaltone regimen since 2010. Sadly WPATH and DSM standards of care do not always line up with reality. The "vetting process" is up to the therapist's discretion. It can be circumvented altogether is the patient chooses to take the "Informed Consent" rout or has been self medicating..

I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. Opposite gender alters have nothing to do with Gender Dysphoria or being transgender. GD is much less likely than other conditions that would cause a person to need to express himself as another gender. Yet GD seems to be the default diagnosis of Psychiatry/Therapy for a person who has the need to express himself as another gender. Conspiracy or circumstance, the psychological community is not putting sufficient effort into understanding the underlying cause of the symptoms before making a diagnosis.


Edited by Dissociated1 (07/13/18 06:08 PM)
Edit Reason: correct grammar error
_________________________
Survivor in therapy for Dissociative Identity Disorder
Read my story: http://www.discussion.malesurvivor.org/b...5959#Post485959

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#525454 - 07/14/18 10:19 AM Re: Trans/Gender issues [Re: Ceremony]
SDD757 Offline


Registered: 10/08/17
Posts: 320
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
Quote:
Well Then, let me express this to you both.


You may express what ever you like. However, how am I being lumped into this aregument? I just posted an article I thought was interesting and I place a trigger warning on it. I am definitely not antiLGBT and I don’t know where you would have found that in any of my posts. I don’t think there is some LGBT agenda or that therapists are pushing people into gender reassignment. Good Lord, it seems you have to convince them that you are...


Edited by SDD757 (07/14/18 12:13 PM)

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#529016 - 11/12/18 08:44 PM Re: Trans/Gender issues [Re: SDD757]
SDD757 Offline


Registered: 10/08/17
Posts: 320
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
Nearly every day I wish that I had been born female. Now and then I get panicked that I’ll never be female. My therapist says it is from the abuse, somewhere I believed the fantasy that if I was female then the abuse would not have happened. That the abuse emasculated and I have a deep inner disgust with masculinity. Except I like being with guys sexually, I don’t seem to have a problem with masculinity that way.

Some times I feel like I have this under control then I’m like planning ways to transition. What sucks is I care about my body and self care when I set goals to transition. Then when I’m not, self care goes to crap.

Remained confused... if someone had insight in this I would be gratefull to hear it.


Edited by SDD757 (11/12/18 08:45 PM)

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#529022 - 11/13/18 12:36 AM Re: Trans/Gender issues [Re: SDD757]
Esterio Offline


Registered: 07/11/17
Posts: 540
Loc: south west coast canada bc
Hi SDD

I don't have any insights just wanted to let you know I am reading your posts. I am not well versed in transgendered peoples problems. I have always been at a lost about my sexuality. I know the issues are different. I think we struggle a lot with these issues and not knowing if this is because of CSA or not.

Who am I is what I question myself about. I think I am gay but have no gay friends. I am not sexual at all any more for the better part of 20 years I have only tried to have sex once that was about 15 years ago now I had a bad panic attack ended everything. I have not tried again.

So your T then would not support you in transition? Self care is always important no matter. So I hope you are able to look out for yourself in what ever you do. Be kind to yourself. I hope you can see your path forward clearly soon you deserve a good life as the person you are.

Take care
Esterio
_________________________
Peace be safe.

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#529087 - 11/15/18 08:23 AM Re: Trans/Gender issues [Re: Esterio]
SDD757 Offline


Registered: 10/08/17
Posts: 320
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
Thanks for reading!!!

I'm at a loss about my sexuality also. I question sometimes why I have sex. It's suppose to be about connection but I often do not feel connected. Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing it out of obligation.

My T's philosophy does not support LGBT issues. He thinks there is a way to heal from that. I really do not focus my therapy on those things. I try to focus on codependency, abuse recovery, DID, PTSD and anxiety.


Edited by SDD757 (11/15/18 08:24 AM)

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#529088 - 11/15/18 08:25 AM Re: Trans/Gender issues [Re: SDD757]
SDD757 Offline


Registered: 10/08/17
Posts: 320
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
I'm wondering how much of gender dysphoria is affected by DID. I can't seem to find much on the internet...

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#529108 - 11/15/18 06:57 PM Re: Trans/Gender issues [Re: SDD757]
Ceremony Offline
Greeter

Registered: 09/14/16
Posts: 2968
Loc: Minnesota
Hi SDD757, I still want to reach out to you. I've studied so many things now, because I have Body Dysmorphic Disorder. Gender Dysphoria became part of how I eventually discovered what my obsession all these 4+ decades has been. I think I know a lot more about GD than BDD. I also know just a bit about DID.


Originally Posted By SDD757
My T's philosophy does not support LGBT issues. He thinks there is a way to heal from that. I really do not focus my therapy on those things. I try to focus on codependency, abuse recovery, DID, PTSD and anxiety.



Originally Posted By SDD757
I'm wondering how much of gender dysphoria is affected by DID. I can't seem to find much on the internet...



I'm sorry your therapist would be described as a conversion therapist. The CDC had come out with that being a very harmful practice, seeking a ban, but then... certain set backs. However, The Journal of the American Medical Association or JAMA and those in the UK and Aus all find conversion therapies to be harmful and invalid. I see you're using it for the purposes you can, and I applaud your effort.

I'm sad that you must deny two, or more things of great importance to you. Gender, sexuality, DID, ptsd traumas can all exist together. It would be nice to just say they would be mutually exclusive, but, there is a part to this that needs sorting.

The part I see, is that gender in GD is not static, it is going to the opposite or what's called gender fluid, or non-binary. The thing is, there is no one who can and should tell you at what point what you identify must stop. One can be transgender, and bisexual, and a cross dresser and have DID at the same time. However, there are huge institutional obstacles to owning your own identity in society. Those are the rules and norms which bias has put in our way. Masculinity, which some might consider one way, or another, and then the same for femininity. This means, you don't have to be absolutely trans, as in going to surgery, but you can know that your brain identifies as a female, and that's not insane. The DSM-V, the latest diagnostic manual notes that GD is not a mental illness, it's the things around being GD that give mental illnesses. That could be for anyone, so to pick on GD wasn't fair at all. It's an identity, not a disease.

I also know that if someone has DID, or what used to be known as Multiple Identity Disorder, then there is nothing precluding that person from knowing they're a gender that they weren't born as. It's the system of psychiatry and doctors, who are not aware or dismiss it for their biases that harm the person with DID and GD. The DID might have issues, but there is also a GD identity that knows what that is for them. And like I noted, it's not that one has to have surgery, or whatever, it's that one knows.

Historically, the way GD has gone, the transgender person will work toward passing; the ideal. But, as more is learned, that's softening to accept the other spectrum of genders. Fluid means fluid, and it may be anywhere on that spectrum. So, if a man has known for 30 years, that his mind is that of a woman, and has developed social anxieties, and depression because they're not living their gender, that's where someone would be seen as having GD... right? Well, what if you have some of that, and some that is not like that, or one of the DID personalities feel they've a right to maintain some portion of the original gender identity, but is willing to allow that for survival the transitioning is a good idea? So, if becoming a trans woman, that person might also dress butch on occasion to accommodate the personality that needs it.

I have read articles about this and I dearly want to share them with you, but I fear you will be triggered. I prefer to talk to you here and see what you think of this so far, and then I could share at least on link or two?

Any interest?

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#529136 - 11/16/18 04:42 PM Re: Trans/Gender issues [Re: SDD757]
SmartShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 472
Originally Posted By SDD757
I'm wondering how much of gender dysphoria is affected by DID. I can't seem to find much on the internet...


This is a great question.
I would like to offer my thoughts.

Dissociative identity disorder is by no means a fixed experience.
Everyone who suffers from it looks unique. Perhaps this is why it is so often undetected by professionals.
DID, dissociative identity disorder and DDNOS, dissociative disorder not otherwise specified, cover a wide range of experiences and symptoms that often get misdiagnosed. DDNOS is used when someone is suffering from DID type symptoms but they don’t appear to have different personalities that they shift in and out of. They are both very difficult condition to be dealing with.

A dissociative disorder is caused when someone’s core personality structure, splits.
This more easily happens at a young age under extreme traumatic stress.
Usually when a young person split it is a temporary setback. With safety, support and understanding we simply fold back together, into our primary personality structure. But when it is not safe to pull back together we can remain split. If the danger and trauma continues the split can be reinforced and can become much more dynamic in nature.

Splitting is a process where by the mind separates off portion of itself in order to survive extreme trauma and extreme internal conflict. Think of it like a sinking ship that starts to close off water tight compartments. It’s all about containment so the rest of the ship and crew can survive.
Now imagine parts of the crew survive in some of the closed off compartments. Communication to crew members in other compartments is severely limited or terminated all together. Each section of the crew is on there own.

Splitting appears to be a survival ability of the mind to deal with situations that are other wise not survivable to the persons psyche. Once a person learns that he can split it becomes easier the next time around. That’s why some people have many identities or separate compartments. They have gotten good at splitting in order to survive.

Some of these identities and parts will hold unique conflict and trauma so that other identities, or personalities can operate free from the burden of such things. Parts or identities are developed for very specific reasons, to contain the trauma, to fight, to hide or to do whatever it takes to survive, and others just had to learn to drive a car or make food or appear to be a normal person.

Separate identities can get stuck, learn, develop and grow. They can learn about the other personalities as well and can learn to communicate, work together, negotiate and help each other. They change over time especially through the process of integrating where they can begin to fold back together.

Integration can be very challenging because parts that hold a lot of damage, trauma and threatening conflict need to be individually helped before they can learn to trust and risk opening up. The parts of us that don’t contain these damages and conflicts will also need to learn to accept, help and even love the more troubled parts. It truly becomes a group effort in a way.

Sometimes a part may not feel like it belongs in the body. This in itself can be very traumatic to that part. The sex or age may be completely wrong.

Parts can be a different gender, have a different sexual orientation, be a different age and sometimes not even see it’s self as human. A part may be in the background having a lot of emotional experiences or may be a primary player that controls a lot of the decision making for the entire structure. Sometimes a part can take over executive control from another. This can be a very frightening experience if the person going through it doesn’t understand what’s going on. Often the perception of lost time is experienced . Segments of memory loss is sometimes another symptom.

I am absolutely convinced that some people with gender dysphoria have DID.

Most people have different aspects of their personality. But they are aware of them and remain aware of the whole even if they lean into a particular aspect of their personality at times. That’s different from DID.

A person with DID shifts in and out of a completely different states of being.
They may be completely unaware of the state the were just in or they may know what they were just doing or going through but for the life of them can’t get back in touch with the emotions, needs or reasons for who they just were.

As my therapist puts it,
“Every one has parts, DID is about how far flung or disconnected they are from one another”

So, if I shift into a part of my personality that has gender dysphoria, then I now have gender dysphoria because of the shift. I now experience what the now “presenting identity” feels or experiences or thinks.
If I shift away from that “identity” for one reason or another or that part of me goes into hiding because she feels unsafe, then my gender dysphoria goes away.

If my primary personality has gender dysphoria, and I shift in and out of another personality, let’s say a stereo typical male part, I may be constantly confused and in a perpetual confusion, trying to understand just who I am.

Often we develop an eraser or edit feature to clean up our internal experience so that it can better match the outward persona and story we are trying to project.

In short I believe that DID is not the cause things like homosexuality or gender dysphoria. But trauma and being split can certainly encapsulate, cut off and amplify our various state of being. DID can certainly keep us from growing into a more holistic balance version of our self and can cause us to vacillate and fixate as we shift in and out of various states of being. DID can also be perpetuated by highly conflicted states that are difficulty to understand and accept enough to allow integration. But even if some conflicted parts don’t fully integrate, they can still learn to work with the rest of the system and vice versa. A big key for integration is revisiting and working through the original trauma. Often the full system needs to be strengthened and aware to help facilitate this trauma work.
Otherwise the trauma work just tends to trigger the maze of dissociative defenses.

It’s definitely not easy stuff to sort out but I think it would be a mistake to entertain hormonal therapy or especially sex reassignment before understanding your system as a whole and having all your parts in awareness and in understanding and in a process of agreement of what is being considered. It’s sounds like your female part is probably a core part but there may well be other core or central parts that need to be considered and brought onboard.

Just because one part is more expressive and around most of the time doesn’t necessarily mean it is aware of, or capable of considering, the needs and reality of the other parts and the pragmatic needs of the whole system.

That’s why you need to get them communicating and working together.

Big life decisions can then be better considered, the cost and benefit for the whole system and for all of the parts involved can be taken into consideration. Usually this will require heavy inter-personal compromise and creative solutions.

Chances are good that you are already doing some of this compromising by default. How else could you manage it? In my opinion this is the beginning of getting your parts working together and helping them to co-operate.

Integration is the process of folding the parts back together, into one unit.
This is where you would find out who you are as a system of disconnected parts and then who you may be as one person and one mind. Integration is the progress of coming back together and it can changes things significantly.

There’s nothing easy about living with a dissociative condition but with the right treatment and understanding we can come back together.

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