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#519810 - 01/08/18 11:02 AM Re: Men stuck in an abusive marriage, TRIGGERING [Re: Ceremony]
HealingHope Offline


Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 327
Hi Ceremony

I’m not sure if it’s ok to respond but since you posted in f&f I’m sensing you may have wanted a different perspective?

First off I think men in emotionally abusive marriages/ relationships are far more common than it’s believed and as the article says it’s not that easy to just leave.
On a personal level I relate to abandonment and neglect from my childhood and these are the pieces I’ve focussed on for my own work because they were huge triggers for me when my survivor needed away time.

I also relate to not leaving because of your promise to your inner child to never leave your kids. But what I will say about that is they see more than you imagine, especially if you’re being badly treated, and you may be surprised by how understanding they are if you chose to change things. I know that’s a huge leap of faith to take, though.

My sense about your financial situation is something I relate to as well, belief that we’re reliant on another to provide our financial safety. I had to take a leap of faith with leaving a job 2 years ago and setting up my own business in something I love instead, but with no employment opportunities out there. My business has established itself and I could manage alone now.

One last comment, dear Ceremony, working through the neglect and abandonment stuff has taken me over 2 years and I’m not a survivor, you’ve been working through healing as well! Patience is the big learning message you guys have always given me, be kind to yourself and patient. Blessing HH.

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#519811 - 01/08/18 12:10 PM Re: Men stuck in an abusive marriage, TRIGGERING [Re: genedebs]
Ceremony Offline
Greeter

Registered: 09/15/16
Posts: 2407
Loc: Minnesota
Hello Gene, thanks for sharing. I've spent nearing 18 years of my sobriety thinking two things, that I could atone for my mental absence and be there for my kids. I've felt the guilt keenly. My daughter didn't have me available like my son. My wife sometimes makes very negative comments about how I was like during our daughters era. We had them nearing 20 years apart, and I think there's a part of her, that knew I may leave without children. That she can't get away with the emotional, and destruction of property abuse and that awful screaming she does. I thought, she'll be calmer now that our son is on the way? No, she was more demanding, and far more stressful. She had a major health crisis with our son's birth. She could have died. When she was having it the worst, and I tried to stay and watch over her situation, she told me to go, that my presence made her more stressed.

I slept in her room for three days straight, and would take her requests to the nurses station, get her water, and read to her if she wished. I would go home for a quick shower and come back. But, that evening, the night before she ended up in the ICU for three days, and had a Pastor visit in case it was the end, I was told to go, I was too much stress? I can forgive that, emotional states are what they are. But, it told me, I'm not what she's ever wanted, she's not seeing me there for her emotional wellbeing? She's never been there for me. I have listened an hour while she'll talk about her troubles with her job, or a distant family concern, or a friend, but, I am if I try that, I'm complaining too much and weak.

Last night, I wanted to check in to see if Healing Circle was in session, and join, she refused to cooperate. Our son has been on Christmas and New Years break from school, and he goes back this morning. He was not getting off his computer, and because he does that so frequently, we turned the internet off at 8:15pm CST. I said, "it helps me manage my self care and concerns", she said, "you should be over this by now, how long do I have to put up with your shit?!"

Well, isn't that special.

Say the above, in the way I intended, using the Saturday Night Live "Church Lady" done by Dana Carvey.



Edited by Ceremony (01/08/18 01:27 PM)

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#519812 - 01/08/18 12:44 PM Re: Men stuck in an abusive marriage, TRIGGERING [Re: dark empathy]
Ceremony Offline
Greeter

Registered: 09/15/16
Posts: 2407
Loc: Minnesota
Hi Luke, A lot of what and why I've not left this abuse is because of what I tell myself. That's what my T and I went over this past week. That narrative in my head about how bad I am, or have to do this or that before I can leave. It's ironic, that the very things she thinks will make me a better husband, are the things I think I need to leave her.

To me, and this seems to me to be a double standard, a societally set standard, that the man has to have a job and be able to make ends meet. In the past 30+ years, it's not so much provider, but co-provider is an absolute. To be a man, who is house husband, or care giver to the children is in Life News, but we know it's rarer and still appearing awkward.

Part of what I did in 2016, to help my son go through an emotional crisis, was to allow him to be home schooled. I tried to engage professionals and the school, but nothing I tried helped him settle in at school. He talked to me, and would relay stories of slights the teachers seemed to do, and some kids picked on him, and he wasn't ready for that. He crashed and cried near daily. He felt alone and adrift, and that's exactly what I went through, I decided to home school him. He could mature at home, and when he was ready, he could go back.

That worked, and I did that home school for almost two years. He's been back this year. I had to step down from my Dept. Mgr job, that one that paid about half of what my previous and eliminated position paid. I went part time, but at least, with my skill and reputation, I was wanted and kept on. I'm still there, part time. I can't do the old Mgmt position now, too much pain. I've been looking for more in line with my old position, a project mgr. I'm very skilled with blue print take offs, and managing what is to happen with building.

What I don't have is a place to live securely, where it's my home and I feel welcome and secure. The welcome part, that's my deep need to be loved, that wish that I were wanted and attached to someone whom wanted me, as I do them. I've not found that for these 33+ years. I have actually known, that she holds me back by the emotional, verbal and property abuse. I'm not stable, and get caught in the fight cycle sometimes. I try not to engage, that's been my way for about 3 years, but she can scream so badly, I sometimes end up shouting back.

It's not good.


Edited by Ceremony (01/08/18 01:07 PM)

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#519813 - 01/08/18 01:26 PM Re: Men stuck in an abusive marriage, TRIGGERING [Re: HealingHope]
Ceremony Offline
Greeter

Registered: 09/15/16
Posts: 2407
Loc: Minnesota
Hello HH, I do appreciate your perspective very much. When I read those links, and that men in bad situations are responding just like women do, I get kind of mixed up about what all that's about? I found just this past therapy session, and she had to wait for me to figure it out, she even prompted me, that abandonment is exactly what's the underlying nature of my staying.

I'm too complex, I have body issues, neglect and csa, dissociation, fear and anxiety, and I've had to calm my internal rage. I feel the pressure and stress she does to me, and I have gone off for drives in the past. I would catch myself going 80 and seeming like nothing mattered, I was dissociating. I would find the nearest stop. It always seemed weird to become aware after going off for drives after abuse.

I would sulk, and cry and feel intensely angry. I had to sit there and feel all the tension of rage, and sometimes it might be too cold to get out and walk. I tried to, but it wouldn't always be a place I could do that. Sometimes I went on hours drives and would find myself 100 miles away. I would drive back with deep regret for the situation, and I stop thinking as best I can.

Sadness, shame, embarrassment, rage, intense loneliness, fear, anxiety seem to be what awaits me at this house. I'm nothing here, without my son. He's been the only reason I stay. I would have left, regardless of my finances, I had the money just 3 years ago, I would have left then, and if my great job had not been eliminated, I could very well be gone. That job was enough to make the attempt to keep my son with me. That's what is always on my mind. How do I justify leaving him here when she nitpicks him and yells at him too. What will she be like if I go and her punching bag is gone? My son isn't taking it anymore either, he's gotten very angry at her and that scares me. I don't want her to incite him to do something he wouldn't do around me, and I know she incites him. He'll beg her to stop, but if that's failing, he'll start yelling for her to "shut up". Sadly, He picked that up from me.

I too had my own business for near 11 years. I had built it from a small time Ceramic and Stone tiling professional, to a full licensed remodeler. I invested in it and for 7 years of it I was doing very well. It was during my best years that our son was born. However, the parts that made me upset, was here continuing slight of my business, saying "when are you going to get a real job and stop with that hobby?!" She said worse too, but that's the gist.


When the crash came in 2008, I was in the middle of my biggest and best job ever, and made it until Jan. 2010. But, that whole year, nobody of any of my hundred contacts wanted a job, and I went out of business. I had never wanted for a job, but all of a sudden, there were none! I found that great job and made nearly as much as I did as a remodeler, and it seemed stable. But, 5+ years later, the company eliminated it. Now, see my response to Luke about the home school and part time work.

I hope for the future, but I have limitations. I don't see those per say, but others might. It's reality. Discrimination, but reality.

I hope that my therapy about abandonment, which has only just started last week, will bring me to independence of thinking. I started this out to figure my path, and note three posts in, I'm talking about rewriting my narrative. Not only my new path, but what I say to myself. To be kinder to myself, to love myself, to be sufficient for me.

Man, that seems far away, but there I am writing it. It's there, so it must be happening some time. I'll get there.

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#519818 - 01/08/18 02:08 PM Re: Men stuck in an abusive marriage, TRIGGERING [Re: Ceremony]
Noah Barrett Offline


Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 44
Loc: NW Georgia USA
WEAK. I never liked that word. It's been thrown my way more than a few times. A weak man would not be making the effort you are to save your marriage. A weak man would have tucked his tail and ran at the first sign of trouble. Your abuse, your medical ailments, all the things that make you question your self worth or sometimes even question your own sanity and all of it feeling like a never ending war.... and your still fighting. You sound plenty damn strong to me.
"You should be over this by now"- I hope you forgive me but that's a really ignorant and hurtful thing to say. Reading that kinda made me mad. She really has no idea what she's talking about. If you had lost your legs in an accident instead, would she still tell you to get over it? Kinda like telling someone with cancer to "walk it off".
From what I've read here, she sounds about as stable as a 3 legged drunken horse on an icy hill. Everything YOU are putting up with and you still have the strength to keep going. Your alot more stable and stronger than you realize. Keep looking up, keep going forward. Be the best damn Mr. Ceremony you can be. -Noah
_________________________
Nobody knows, nobody sees, nobody knows but me.
-Lefty Frizzell

need a giggle? watch this.
https://youtu.be/wuKxKbtxCV0

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#519820 - 01/08/18 02:14 PM Re: Men stuck in an abusive marriage, TRIGGERING [Re: Noah Barrett]
Ceremony Offline
Greeter

Registered: 09/15/16
Posts: 2407
Loc: Minnesota
Thank you Noah, this support is helping me a lot. The nurturing missed in the real world, really can be found in places like MS. We just know these things, and it connects.

Bless you for that kindness.

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#519822 - 01/08/18 05:06 PM Re: Men stuck in an abusive marriage, TRIGGERING [Re: Ceremony]
Noah Barrett Offline


Registered: 01/03/18
Posts: 44
Loc: NW Georgia USA
Music is one of my coping mechanisms when I feel overwhelmed. I think I found a song that fits your situation. I hope it helps. I would post a link but I'm still learning how to do all this. If you get a chance later look it up and listen.

-Fryin' Bacon Nekkid- by Roger Alan Wade

Loving you's like frying bacon naked,
You tempt me, darling, then you torture me.
Loving you's like frying bacon naked,
Cause that's how I feel when you get through with me.

You think I'd know you think I'd learn,
A man falls in love a man's gonna get burned.
All I ask from you is this solemn pledge,
You can burn the bacon but please don't scorch my sausage.

Loving you's like frying bacon naked,
You tempt me, darling, then you torture me.
Loving you's like frying bacon naked,
Cause that's how I feel when you get through with me.

What made God put thorns on a rose?
He's got his reasons I suppose.
What makes a woman want to put her man
Like cold fatback in a hot frying pan?

Loving you's like frying bacon naked,
You tempt me, darling, then you torture me.
Loving you's like frying bacon naked,
Cause that's how I feel when you get through with me.


IF nothing else I hope you get a giggle out of it. -Noah
_________________________
Nobody knows, nobody sees, nobody knows but me.
-Lefty Frizzell

need a giggle? watch this.
https://youtu.be/wuKxKbtxCV0

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#519841 - 01/09/18 01:30 AM Re: Men stuck in an abusive marriage, TRIGGERING [Re: Ceremony]
Echoes Offline


Registered: 07/05/15
Posts: 122
Leaving will never be easy, it's so damn scary not knowing how life will be like or if it will be better or worse than what you have now. I think you're strong for taking all that abuse and still retain your compassion, and for staying for the reasons you're staying. You're worth so much more. No one can judge you for staying or leaving, they don't know what you've been through. You can leave at your own pace.

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#520312 - 01/21/18 11:23 PM Re: Men stuck in an abusive marriage, TRIGGERING [Re: Ceremony]
chairdesklamp Offline


Registered: 01/20/18
Posts: 137
Loc: Los Angeles County, California
I haven't read much of this thread, but it's already struck something major in me. I don't have kids, and all my relationships have been with abusers, so that's lucky, even though I have no partner,. no kids, and I'm completely alone in life.

I did, though, watch my dad go through this with my mother, who was my own first abuser. I watched him be threatened with DV reports to the police because she hurt herself hurting him to get money out of him (it worked), I watched her disallow him from everything from therapy to having friends at all (she also did this with me), I watched her set up illegal ways for him to procure her more money.

He ended up committing suicide. I ended up in her hands alone, kicking off ~25 years of abuse at multiple hands.

One of those, I ended up with someone exactly like her. This woman redefined me to the core, every facet of my life.

Even though he took himself from me in taking his life, I finally understood why my father had killed himself. As in, I wanted to follow in his footsteps.

Leaving, saying NO, is GOOD FOR YOUR CHILDREN. They see you, they see what she's doing to you. They see you accepting it. Police/custody court may be unfriendly to male abuse victims depending on where you live. But you should be able to get shared (they stay with you sometimes, with her sometimes)

Once that's over, EXPLICITLY TALK about this to them. (As long as you can be sure they won't repeat to her you said she was abusive--retribution and all)

It'll be better for everyone.
_________________________
My Story, Condensed

"A man who never makes mistakes must get tired of doing nothing," --Alan Ludden quoting a viewer's letter on Password Plus

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