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#517210 - 11/03/17 04:02 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: Chris4TheMill]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 3257
Originally Posted By Chris4TheMill
...it has taken a long time, but when stressed or anxious, my mind no longer automatically goes toward thoughts of sexual acting out to calm my fears and anxiety.

Chris, I just read an interesting section in Beyond Betrayal about that very phenomenon. Apparently during abuse, the stress can be so great that the endorphin release can over-counter the stress to the point that we go back to that behavior just to get that endorphin high. At first, the idea sounded preposterous. Why would anyone want to go through being abused just to get a high off of it? But such is also the way with adrenaline junkies, I imagine. They are just as scared as anyone else in cliff diving, car racing, big wave surfing or extreme mountain biking - but the difference is they are addicted to that chemical release. Something I learned. Do you think that was a factor in your thoughts of acting out?
_________________________
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#517213 - 11/03/17 05:23 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: Chase Eric]
iaccus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/14
Posts: 745
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By Chase Eric
Originally Posted By Chris4TheMill
...it has taken a long time, but when stressed or anxious, my mind no longer automatically goes toward thoughts of sexual acting out to calm my fears and anxiety.

Chris, I just read an interesting section in Beyond Betrayal about that very phenomenon. Apparently during abuse, the stress can be so great that the endorphin release can over-counter the stress to the point that we go back to that behavior just to get that endorphin high. At first, the idea sounded preposterous. Why would anyone want to go through being abused just to get a high off of it? But such is also the way with adrenaline junkies, I imagine. They are just as scared as anyone else in cliff diving, car racing, big wave surfing or extreme mountain biking - but the difference is they are addicted to that chemical release. Something I learned. Do you think that was a factor in your thoughts of acting out?


Wow, that is a brilliant comparison, never thought of it that way!
..




Edited by iaccus (11/03/17 11:50 PM)

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#517226 - 11/03/17 10:56 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: Chase Eric]
Chris4TheMill Offline


Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 692
Loc: NY / NJ Area
Originally Posted By Chase Eric
...Apparently during abuse, the stress can be so great that the endorphin release can over-counter the stress to the point that we go back to that behavior just to get that endorphin high....Do you think that was a factor in your thoughts of acting out?

Good question. I finally heard someone talk about this phenomenon last week in a You Tube interview with Gary Wilson about porn and how it affects the brain. Hardly anyone talks about this. For many years I thought I was the only one suffering from this sexual compulsion toward fear and stress. To explain further, let me take you back to the original scene.

TRIGGER WARNING - Sexual Details - I will try to be as tasteful as possible, but this may be very triggering to some.

I was 11, and had just hit puberty, but barely. My very first masturbatory ejaculation had happened by then. It was to a copy of "Oui" magazine (men's magazine) that my mother had lying around in her apartment. I liked girls but was shy, and started to fantasize about them. The family friend / neighbor who ended up abusing me was around 28. He was never really coercive or forceful or violent; in fact he was very good to me in a lot of ways. But in hindsight I can see how he knew how to manipulate my affections and how to "seduce" me. Before this he had done some touching that made me uncomfortable, but nothing like this.

This is where it started. One night we were staying over at his apartment. I am not sure how we both ended up naked, but if I remember correctly, we had just taken separate showers, because I remember us drying off with large towels. We got into bed and I guess I was still very naïve because I thought we were just going to be sleeping, and that it was just kind of cool to be naked. But within minutes I felt his erect penis against my backside. I remember being very scared. But it was a confusing combination of fear, excitement, panic, adrenaline, revulsion and shame. I was a nervous person in general, but felt so small and out of sorts in that moment. To make a long story short, I was so rushed with brain chemicals and fear that I ended up ejaculating on the bed. In hindsight, I believe that happened because my body and brain were looking for a "high" to calm and soothe my fear and adrenaline surge. It released a big dopamine rush in my brain. I don't remember much else after that except falling asleep.

The next day, he joked about me having "glued the sheets together." That of course added to my shame and feeling small.

I ended up going back for more, but that is another story best left for another time.

But ever since that night, sexual desires became very rooted in fear and stress in my mind. That created a lot of sexual dysfunction, which I will not detail here, but you can PM me if you want to compare notes. Anyway, a few months ago I happened to re-visit the memory of this event and I saw how it created my "orgasm addiction," as I call it. I believe that this one event sent me in a direction where sexual pleasure was deeply connected to fear and anxiety and vice versa. In other words, when I was fearful or afraid, my brain would automatically seek a sexual high that resulted in ejaculation. All sex was shocking to me, but I also sought to at least view or imagine more extreme sexual acts that had higher shock value, like BDSM, etc. which basically are designed to shock or unsettle.

I was also extremely drawn to the goriest horror movies and to extreme music (heavy metal, thrash, punk) - go figure! smile It was all part of my brain seeking out more shock and anxiety.

Gary Wilson mentioned that sometimes when people get bored of the usual porn, they will seek out more extreme, even violent porn, because the adrenaline and dopamine rushes that are triggered by the shock and anxiety of extreme porn are so much greater in intensity. Apparently the way the science tells it, the dopamine rushes (or high) that men get from regular sex or regular porn can lessen over time, so that they lose interest and need a more extreme version of the same to get that same high.

It is of great interest to me that this book Beyond Betrayal discusses this in more detail - and in the context of abuse - because I hardly ever hear anyone discuss this. I thought it was me, that I was just "weak" and "not a real man" to have this sexual compulsion toward fear and anxiety.

I have never told this story before to anyone. I am not sure if anyone can really relate or had anything similar, but I have always felt ashamed of having this type of issue. That is why it is a big victory that this correlation between fear / stress and sexual compulsion / fantasy has finally been crippled. As I said, it is not always 100% gone but it is no longer an automatic place my mind locks into where I can never stop it from happening. Now, at least when I feel it happening, I can slow my reactions down and take steps to stop my mind from going there. It takes work. But many times I do not even feel the urge like I used to, so thank God for that smile. I hated living like this all the time, it made me feel sexually crippled.

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#517234 - 11/04/17 07:48 AM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: Chase Eric]
KMCINVA Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 4201
Loc: VIRGINIA
Eirik

Interesting thought--because survivors are known to re-enact, relive the abuse. I had always thought it was driven by a need to take control, to feel empowered that it was not the survivor's fault. You analogy with the adrenaline junkies seems appropriate. We do not know how the mind works and the endorphin release, as in exercise which is a stress to the body, may play a role in the need for the survivor to relive or recreate the abuse. Thank you for sharing because the more we learn the more we can understand the impact of abuse/trauma on the mind and post abuse behavior.

Kevin

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#517235 - 11/04/17 08:31 AM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: manipulated]
George Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 417
Loc: NY metro **PM's are welcomed
I too never figured in that adrenaline rush and how that got locked up in my young brain with the abuse. That makes a whole lot of sense, and in hindsight so easy to see now. This is definitely another major piece of the abuse puzzle for me.

I knew my acting out was somehow a form of addiction, because all rational thought, wants and needs would go out the window once I was triggered. I would be taken over like a Dr. Jeckle & Mr. Hyde. All caution thrown to the wind and I would willingly risk everything I loved and held dear for that needed fix. Even knowing the very second it was over I'd be left in a heap of shame, guilt & self hate, it didn't matter my fix came first...

My control & masculinity issues were indeed the major players in my acting out, but I see now how that adrenaline rush was the gasoline thrown onto that smoldering fire.
_________________________
My Updated (2017) Story, it focuses on the abuse, the aftermath & poor coping mechanisms & breakthrough...Healing ; https://youtu.be/z4JAIE82NpU

https://bristleconeproject.org/men/gino-werner/

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#517328 - 11/06/17 01:48 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: Chris4TheMill]
SmartShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 472
Originally Posted By Chris4TheMill
But ever since that night, sexual desires became very rooted in fear and stress in my mind.


I can totally relate to this whole discussion.

For me the combination of being exposed, controlled, used to gratify another's sexual desires. Feeling like if I complied he would have the power to destroy my public reputation but knowing if I didn't do what he wanted he definitely would make things much worse for me. He had already proven that to me. He had me. I thought he would just do something minor but before long I was so completely traumatized that I didn't know which way was up.

He had also mixed in other conflicting messages of being on my side, carrying about me, wanting to help me. And messages like this is what normal guys do. Like there was something wrong with me if I didn't go along with what he wanted.

This was all while having my sexual hormones and fear hormones turn to 300% for several hours. I may as well have been in a terrible accident and woken up in the hospital severally crippled and in shock.

Any time after that my sexual feelings were not normal. They opened back up the extreme traumatic high. I was even addicted to this for some years. Like being addicted to being hit in the face with a shovel.

This really messed up my thinking in so many ways.

I have over come a lot of this but I still have a lot of trauma stored in my body that gets triggered by anything sexually intense. This is probably the hardest aspect of being married for me. I really hope I can someday, have the train wreck intensity, completely decoupled from my body and mind.

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#517335 - 11/06/17 08:26 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: Chase Eric]
SDD757 Offline


Registered: 10/08/17
Posts: 320
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
Quote:
Apparently during abuse, the stress can be so great that the endorphin release can over-counter the stress to the point that we go back to that behavior just to get that endorphin high.


Well, this explains a lot. Diapers were used in part of my abuse, this is probably why they have been such a compulsion all of my life.

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#517339 - 11/06/17 10:11 PM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: SmartShadow]
Chris4TheMill Offline


Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 692
Loc: NY / NJ Area
Originally Posted By SmartShadow
I have over come a lot of this but I still have a lot of trauma stored in my body that gets triggered by anything sexually intense. This is probably the hardest aspect of being married for me. I really hope I can someday, have the train wreck intensity, completely decoupled from my body and mind.

[Trigger Warning]

That is really good that you recognize this. I too have had to deal with way too much triggering (of various types) by the intensity of 'conventional' sex. The only solution I have found that seems to be working is exploring the concepts of Tantra, Karezza, and "Slow Sex." There are a few good books and websites around these issues. The best are probably "Cupid's Poisoned Arrow" by Marnia Robinson, and "Tantric Sex For Men" by Diana and Michael Richardson. I first heard interviews with these people on various podcasts and was very intrigued. Some of the ideas they propose are radical by conventional standards (such as both partners agreeing to try to avoid orgasm), but they really do succeed in slowing down the whole sexual experience to a way more relaxing, calm, meditative, mindful state that offers a type of satisfaction (and different neurochemical release) that cannot be obtained via the usual fast, goal-driven sexual tropes that most people follow because the magazines and movies tell them to.

Marnia also has a website - www.reuniting.info which is chock full of info and comments from people who are practicing Karezza.

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#517342 - 11/07/17 01:13 AM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: manipulated]
SmartShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 472
Very interesting.
Thanks, I will look into it.

After taking a closer look I have to say I want to give it a try. i kind of already have the ability to slow things down and prolong the high so this may be relatively easy for me. I have to ask my wife about it at some point. I am relatively passive anyway so often my issue is sometimes not being able to get fired up enough to want to keep going. It's a find balancing act going on in my head. But this actually sounds appealing to me on a number of levels.
My main concern is that I would be in a constant state of sexual energy with no reset. Maybe I am missing something but I think that wouldn't be the best for me but worth a try. Sounds like if nothing else it would offer something new and a chance to add to a list of what does work.

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#517344 - 11/07/17 03:11 AM Re: Sexual Disorientation [Re: manipulated]
LoneWolfX Offline


Registered: 08/04/17
Posts: 621
[Trigger Warning]

I can relate a bit and there are certainly contrasts in my story compared to others.

At the time all of this abuse stuff came flooding back to me about 7 years ago, my friend and I use to go often to this night club looking to meet girls. There was heavy drinking too. On one occasion if anyone touched me (brushed passed) I had a gag reflex and almost threw up. Very strangely as I write this now I almost puked (this was really unexpected).

Anyway on another occasion at this club I almost went home with this older guy. Very weird because I am straight and even if I was not I cannot imagine having any interest in such a person.

In terms of my abuse obviously when it started I did not ejac... because I could not. Even later when I could I only recall ever ejac... once when he made me mast... myself when I had "come of age". Thinking about it now it would seem he only did that to humiliate me - he had such a huge p... and mine is on the slightly smaller side of average. He then commented on how little s... I produced.

I confess I did get an erection sometimes though. I think I was more of a sex toy for him. I took on the role of a woman - "I remember making a story and telling him I am carrying your child". Pretty FUCKING SICK!

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