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#514889 - 08/21/17 07:49 AM Is this normal? Trigger Warning
LoneWolfX Offline

Registered: 08/04/17
Posts: 625
I mentioned this issue in my story but see no one commented on it.

When a teacher was dismissed after touching some of us when I was 10/11 I felt sorry for him because I did not think he did anything wrong. Is that a normal reaction?

I bathed with my father and brother up to about age 14. Is that normal?

I have no memories of sexual abuse by my father but I have sometimes had the feeling something happened. I am in my thirties and fear strikes me whenever he phones - I am still very afraid of him. Is it most likely I am projecting my sexual abuse onto him for other reasons - for allowing my stepmother to emotionally abuse me?

#514891 - 08/21/17 08:26 AM Re: Is this normal? Trigger Warning [Re: LoneWolfX]
Ceremony Offline

Registered: 09/14/16
Posts: 3019
Loc: Minnesota
Hello LWX, hope you're finding some of the threads around MS helpful? The support here can resonate well, stemming from our understanding and empathy.

I see that question about the bathing, and separately, "felt sorry" for that teacher.

The bathing, in context of living in the United States and Canada, isn't accepted after the earliest ages. I know with the smallest, to help them be steady in the bath, it' may occur. We have held our babies and toddlers in small tubs, and then over the edge of our tub as they grew. A scenario, such that three people fit into a standard bathtub, which is not easily accomplished, would require an inordinate amount of intimacy for the participants.

That kind of contact, which might not cause arousal, considering it would have been an entire childhood, is the line that would help determine whether a problem occurred. The idea of arousal, may have been downplayed, even discussed, perhaps an erection were just ignored? But, in the context of three, thoughts about how that could be explained away seem irregular.

My concern isn't to bring abuse into that time, but to explore how it normalized something that probably only families with some history of inappropriate intimate relations allowed that. How can this be talked about without some directness, and I'm uncomfortable to state these things, owing to my empathy for your feelings. I don't know how others may yet comment, and my thinking seems to be attempting a soft approach. There are dynamics and histories at play around us all the time, and perceptions become what our history forms as our bias.

Regarding the teacher, that to me, is from the changes to the way we process trauma. There are ways we cope, ways we make betrayal less painful, and that's one of them. To cope with betrayal, where we don't see it until later, and our original confusion is compounded by other things normalizing what happened (that bathing story), the idea that some might minimize what happened, even dismiss it, is relatable. When the time comes to understand our processing of trauma was altered by brain chemistry, literally where our brain goes to process internally, then we can begin to find ways to work on that trauma. Betrayal is a slippery slope, and it forks off into some directions, to understand the brain is playing a function of coping and needs help to process what really is going on, is a first step.

Finding the means to help my brain process is where I decided to write all that out. I have at least two threads where I write my research and discoveries out. I hope you find some resources to keep processing and finding the calm in how this gets stirred up. And it does get stirred up.

#514897 - 08/21/17 10:46 AM Re: Is this normal? Trigger Warning [Re: LoneWolfX]
greenwizard Offline

Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 497
Loc: PA
The teacher thing, you were looking at it from a kid's point of view. I had this one History teacher in high school... Well, I was 17 at the time so that may change things, but I so wanted him to call me over at the end of class and then do stuff to me on his desk. None of that ever happened, but if it had and he would've gotten caught, I don't think I would've understood what was wrong with me playing a little slap and tickle with a teacher.

Bathing with your father and brother, that can be more complicated. I mean, unless you remember abuse happening... Like Ceremony said, society frowns on communal bathing unless it's really little kids. And it does kind of create an intimacy of sorts. Maybe your distaste for that memory is you feel like that wasn't the kind of relationship a father is supposed to have with a son.

But I remember being a teenager and taking showers with my cousins when I stayed over there. The one closer to my age was a girl, and the younger one was a boy, and we all 3 got into that shower. They were my cousins so nothing sexual ever entered my mind, and I guess they were raised in a way of not being ashamed to show their bodies off.

Also, my friend S spent his teen years showering with his brothers, and also sometimes his older sister. There being so many people in that house that was just economical.

#514912 - 08/23/17 03:43 PM Re: Is this normal? Trigger Warning [Re: LoneWolfX]
scottyg Offline

Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 289
Loc: Seattle
Your reaction to the teacher is part of a grooming process that makes the victim doubt himself. It is a super normal reaction and as you better understand the manipulations you endured you'll eventually come to understand this teacher was in the wrong. We sometimes think that the abuse is all about the acts themselves. The most damaging abuse that I endured was the brainwashing from adults telling me how I should view this abuse.

As far as the bathing deal, trust your feelings. There is a reason you are fearful when he calls. It could be because he stood by while another parent abused you, it could be more. I've been afraid of my abusive mother all my life and I'm just now figuring out why. I'm 45. She didn't abuse me in a sexual way but that isn't the point. Sexual abuse can feel so compromising, so crushing it distorts our thinking about everything else.

Just go slow and know that everything you're going through is (unfortunately) normal. One day it will start to make sense.

#514913 - 08/23/17 04:27 PM Re: Is this normal? Trigger Warning [Re: LoneWolfX]
Tom E. Offline

Registered: 01/08/17
Posts: 662
Loc: FL
Maybe it's just me, but, bathing with father or brothers til 14 y.o. seems really sketchy ..

#514918 - 08/23/17 08:41 PM Re: Is this normal? Trigger Warning [Re: LoneWolfX]
genedebs Offline

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 462
Loc: MO
Sounds like a lack of boundaries. I am glad it didn;t happen with my older brother it would have been open season for incest.

#514940 - 08/24/17 07:55 AM Re: Is this normal? Trigger Warning [Re: LoneWolfX]
LoneWolfX Offline

Registered: 08/04/17
Posts: 625
Thank you everyone for your insight!


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