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#514216 - 08/06/17 03:29 AM Negativity and being at the mercy of others?
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2670
Loc: durham, north england
I'm posting here as well as in the main ms forum since it is an issue my lady has bought up, therefore it might be helpful to get the perspectives of partners as well as those of survivers, indeed I will confess that I am mainly concerned about this because it is a tendency of mine which upsets my lady, albeit I suspect her feelings are reasonable.

One legacy of both the abuse and my years of recovery I still have is a hugely negative, often down right cynical attitude on occasions, indeed indeed I've noticed for me I have something of a frustration trigger, that I become very ugly when I feel that something large, impersonal and beyond my control seems to have me at it's mercy, the crowd, the collective, the impersonal mass of disgusting humanity.

I also become jealous to the point of vitriol when I see those whom the collective loves, the pretty people, the popular people, the connected people get ahead because of who and what they are, while who and what I am has done nothing but get me abused and neglected.

This not only occasionally puts me into a position that my lady refers to as "the loop" in which I literally yell about circumstances, or say severely nasty things about pop stars, rich people etc, but also discourages me from actually trying anything where I am again going to be under the thumb of someone else's stupid judgement with no power to influence or change it.

My lady and I auditioned for a production earlier this year, and oncemore it resulted in "The standard was very high" aka "we dont' want blind people on stage"

Which of course discourages me from trying again.

I submitted an article for more professional standard publishing today in hopes of furthering my writing ambitions, and while I wrote a positive bio of myself, and while said publishers even said "we want voices of diversity" meaning that the disability thing should theoretically go in my favour, I'm still sitting around and waiting for the rejection to turn up.

Of course I tried my best, but that has never counted, indeed one life lesson I have learned is it is not your ability or how hard you try at something that counts, it's how good your ticket in the genetic lottery happened to be, aka who you know and how pretty you are.

this I confess is one of the few things that has caused my lady and I some friction, since she has got frustrated with me, both my generally negative attitude, and my extremely ugly and often vicious comments about people who win the genetic lottery, ---- eg, about the director who rejected us from the last production I actually said "well I hope he goes blind! that would learn him, though at least I can take comfort in
the fact that he's older than me so he'll die first"

My lady and I do not yell or scream at each other, and she has made her dislike of this clear without being negative or personal, also, I do accept her criticism in this case since it isn't a helpful attitude for me to have.
The problem is that it is something I do not feel in a position to change, since the attitude comes from the fact that in my life both the best and worst things that have ever happened to me have been entirely outside my control, and for a very long time I felt that every aspect of my life has pretty much been standing still whatever I do, ---- feeling powerless is not an easy thing to shake.

I have tried the "think positive" type of advice, the problem I have is that I don't see a reason why! after all why should I! think positively when it seems I have so little power over what happens to me or whether I am successful at anything or not?

Likewise, the "everyone has problems" argument is rather problematic, since would you tell a slave, or a woman in a rigidly sexist culture that they have no right to be indignant their lack of opportunities because "everyone has problems?"

Oh, and yes, there are plenty of disability laws in England, and everyone is quite aware of them, that is why people prefer to make excuses than actually treat me like another human being, besides no amount of laws can stop the problem I only have to walk down the street or into a shop to feel as if I do not exist.

it isn't indeed the disability thing specifically, since I often feel the same way if say I'm forced to accept an inferior computer upgrade because "Microsoft says so" if I have to deal with some idiotic and selfish company of the sort that run the world now (there is quite a saga about my wife's attempts to get a bank account in Britain as an American Ex pat without a driver's license).

It is this feeling of being crushed, of literally feeling that the environment, in the form of people in power is against me and that I have no way of stopping it.
Of course it goes back to my abuse, where all of that was literally and obviously true, of so many years of utter frustration of my life going no where afterewards.

To be honest if it weren't for my lady's comments on this and her observations of me, I probably wouldn't even be worried about me holding this attitude, just seeing it as a justified response to the general crappiness of the human species and my position in it. Still I do not like upsetting my lady, and I do admire the way she is able to maintain a far more positive outlook than me and be willing to try things despite being slapped down just as often and having about as much power to effect her own destiny as I do.

So does anyone have any thoughts?

Luke.

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#514251 - 08/06/17 06:39 PM Re: Negativity and being at the mercy of others? [Re: dark empathy]
Chris4TheMill Offline


Registered: 05/16/17
Posts: 352
Loc: NY / NJ Area
Luke,

I can certainly relate to the vast majority of what you are saying. Especially the jealousy and upsetment at seeing how the shallow-but-pretty are treated like kings and the waves seem to part for them. And everyone seems so eager to hand their money over to them over and over, Lol.

And yes, it can sometimes feel like most everybody out there is horrible and the negative thoughts can get overwhelming at times.

However because of my faith, I am able to deal with this frustration in ways that I could not have before, and can stay relatively grounded. But that is probably a larger discussion for another time.

However I might be a bit concerned here just because it sounds like the negative energy might be affecting your relationship with the Mrs. I know we all want to be understood, and accepted, and honest and heard and to "let it all hang out" with our significant other. But, I bet there are some things which I would personally try to deal with more outside of the relationship, to protect the flow of the relationship and to protect the person I loved if indeed I thought she would rather not have to deal with my more negative emotions.

Please know that I am not saying you are not doing that, because I don't know the ins and outs of your interactions with the Mrs....but I'm just making the comment just in case you want to rethink the approach to letting everything just fly with the Mrs. in what might(?) be a fairly unedited manner...again, just going by what you said so far.

You and I do seem to have some similar sets of challenges though, and I have always valued your feedback, so I wanted to just add some third-party observations concerning what you expressed so far.

Question: Is there anyone else you can process some of the darker and more hateful emotions with? Are there others you can talk to, to help you perhaps put it into a slightly more pro-Luke perspective? I know I am taking a risk here by making these observations and suggestions, but I think you know enough about me by now to know that I am only seeking your good and just trying to provoke a little food for thought. I would expect the same from anyone who actually cared, which I do.

Anyway, feel free to respond or send me a PM if you'd like.

Best regards,

Chris

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#514265 - 08/07/17 04:54 AM Re: Negativity and being at the mercy of others? [Re: dark empathy]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2670
Loc: durham, north england
Hi Chris.

When you mention "negativity affecting the relationship" this is putting more emphasis on things than they need to be.
It is certainly not the case that we argue, or yell, or become resentful, it is just notable that this is the one time when she actually tells me she does not like the way I react. She's actually said "it's not like you" which is I suspectis true, since one of the ironic things is that for all I hate humanity in general and the collective in particular I don't tend to react that way to anyone in my vicinity, the anger is always directed only at distant targets since usually the things that trigger these forms of anger are, like my abuse things I can do nothing about since they are part of the establishment, or part of people's ignorance, or just part of how the world works.

You are correct in that when I was having councilling this was a general theme of things, indeed one of the most helpful things my councillor told me was that basically yes I was fully justified my feelings of frustration and that if I ever did! find an accepting environment I'd probably be alright.

The problem I have is that it seems there isn't a lot to do with this, and I do take my lady's comments about the expression of my frustration being unhealthy seriously. I tend to try to be decent to people around me, but it is extremely difficult to feel that way, either towards the lords of the collective in their high towers who rule my life without knowing I even exist, towards the sad little middle managers who simply decide I'm a lesser species because of who and what I am, or hell, just to the people who are so casually ignorant on a day to day basis, and that quite aside from the problem the pretty shallow people you mentioned (some of whom I've met), get a free pass to success simply because of who they are.

The problem is I find it extremely difficult not! to feel this way, not when it really does seem that the environment itself, an environment constructed and ruled by ignorant people literally against me.

For example, yesterday, when feeling not in a great mood anyway I happened to walk into the end of a branch that some people had stuck in a bin on the very narrow pavement outside their house. Of course the things stick out at all angles, and but the people who live there don't need to care because they can see where the branches are and assume everyone else can too. This caused an extremely painful bruise in the chest and a lot of swearing, including my comment of "ignorant stupid moronss it's alright for them with their nice little eyes! I hope they fucking injure themselves too!"

of course yes I suppose I could go around and complain, and they'd say "oh sorry" and then forget about it the next day, because that's the way people usually are.
There really doesn't seem an answer to this, but I don't exactly know how not to feel so bloody frustrated since hay it is not my fault.

This isn't of course a constant problem at all, however the problem I've noticed is that when it does come up it just confirms my desire to retreat from the world, and from people, and to not bother trying anything where I will be once again under someone else's judgement which seems to constantly happen.

my lady for instance wants us to try and do more music as we're both classically trained singers and it's what we love to do, but I am so sick of trying for auditions that are already pre determined because the director has already cast their friends, hell, even with a "fair" audition (if such a thing actually exists), I would still suspect the first any director would see would be visual imparement first, and so just note down a good excuse like "the standard was too high!"

ditto when I submitted my written article the other day, I'm still waiting for the rejection since once again, I have no power in the situation at all and am waiting on the judgement of someone else.

This in general, rejection, actual real physical difficulty with the environment, and feeling as if I have no control over my own destiny basically is the reason I tend to get frustrated, and with nothing else I can do I tend to just swear at things loudly! and then go back to the few things where I do have some control, the worlds of books and computer games and writing which are far nicer places to be than the planet on the tag end of the western spiral arm of an unimportant galaxy populated by the human disgrace with all it's nasty little cleaques and idolatries where the loudest word is silence.


Sorry this went a little further than I expect it to do so, accept that it's six in the morning again which is a time that promotes rambling.

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#514271 - 08/07/17 06:45 AM Re: Negativity and being at the mercy of others? [Re: dark empathy]
Ceremony Offline
Greeter

Registered: 09/15/16
Posts: 1919
Loc: Minnesota
I have torn tree branches off to remove them from hitting my or other face. People let them grow down over the sidewalk without a care for others. We've laws to keep the sidewalk clear and free of snow and ice, but tree branch obstruction is a part of being a good person, where too many aren't.

Then there are those who drive in older city roads and think there's not enough room for two cars to pass and drive down the center. I'll stop and not move over, and sure enough, when they're upon me, they can easily get by.

Then there's the folk who walk along side their shopping cart or leave it blocking the aisle of stores while they stand there oblivious of anyone else trying to make their way down the aisle. They'll stop and block many things as well, leaving their cart some distance behind or in front, while they linger over some inane decision of which bread they have to have. Making it absolute that talking to them to say "excuse me" is a must. I'm averse to people already!!

Stupid, inane, inexcusable rudeness of blocking!! Like that branch, some idiot so stupidly put in the bin to ensure some with problems seeing will navigate into the obstacle and be hurt! Idiots!!

So it seems there are so many privileged, oblivious morons to endure!!

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#514272 - 08/07/17 06:53 AM Re: Negativity and being at the mercy of others? [Re: dark empathy]
Ceremony Offline
Greeter

Registered: 09/15/16
Posts: 1919
Loc: Minnesota
When it comes to obtaining a job, all along it's fear for me, mixed with finding out the results deal me a financial blow. I'm very tired of trying to work in this system where experience means less in some cases. Too, every job seems to have a proprietary computer system, and they're seeming to require experience without regard for knowing how to learn the f'ing thing with one sit down. I've dealt with many over the years and I'm still very savvy with computers, but they reject out of hand. I'm supposed to believe every candidate has had experience with that exact interface, where the thing barely changes, but some slight commands and drop down menus. Humbug!!

I've learned computer aided design and taught myself how to read blueprints and schematics. HUMBUG!

The above skills don't get my foot in the door. I'm older, fatter and I'm not somebody. I'm not someone who knows someone or one in the family of nepotism! I don't have the social network, the bright white smile, the prime-time clothes or membership in any fitness club.

I take care of my son the best I can, I try the best I can, but it's never enough, and I lose!

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#514275 - 08/07/17 07:32 AM Re: Negativity and being at the mercy of others? [Re: dark empathy]
HealingHope Offline


Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 280
Hi Luke
I'm sorry I missed this.
You know? You absolutely do have every right to feel frustrated and angry at the ignorance we seem to have around us. I get so disillusioned too.
Couple of things I know about myself and that's without the challenges you face, when I'm giving too much of myself to others for example and foget to stay grounded and put energy into my own needs, I start to see my frustrations about others ignorance creep in.
I also wonder with all my understanding of handling recovery, triggers, self image, ptsd, anxiety etc ( all thanks to you and many others who've helped me these two years in seeing a survivors perspective), this takes huge energy. When I'm tired I lose tolerance, the management of recovery is 24/7, to
me that must be exhausting.

The other thing I've also noticed as I've grown in self awareness and worked through many of my own issues, is that most people are in their own heads most of the time, apparently not thinking about anyone else ( I know I was with my survivor when I was fearful he'd run again, just seeing my own perspective ). People can't help it, they're dealing with all their own stuff and appear not to give a jot about anyone else in that moment really. I could get into a huge philosophical ramble about that, but broadly it is my belief that many people are just not awakened enough.

You know what I do when I'm in one of my " who are these people" moments?
I first notice it, which is effectively noticing I've been triggered and then I counter their behaviour by doing something I love. This lifts me out of the loop your lady mentioned because it lifts my energy and keep doing the thing I love. Have a playlist, meditate, cook, garden, small acts of kindness ( like giving way when I'm driving) it helps, not always easy but I keep at it until I shift the negativity. Over time I've realised I need a tangible way to shift my mood, because it can feel an impossible task to try and think our way out of it. Doing helps me out of my loop. If you believe like attracts like, as I do.
Doing something positive brings positivity. Takes effort though, and some days I realise this may sound too simple.
I hope this helps! A bit of a ramble!


Edited by HealingHope (08/07/17 08:11 AM)

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#514288 - 08/07/17 01:51 PM Re: Negativity and being at the mercy of others? [Re: dark empathy]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2670
Loc: durham, north england
@Ceremony, again this sounds familiar, unfortunately it seems we live in a world run by bastards for bastards where if your not in the bastard club you don't exist.

What for me is particularly hard is mustering the desire to actually go out among the bastards and try again, try to find some way of expression, or some of those friends I used to have since each rejection ends up making me less likely to bother.
this is one difference between myself and my lady, she remains with a far more positive attitude despite rejections and wants to try more stuff, I find that the more things go wrong the more I envy Robinson Cruso. Indeed in some ways I suppose this is where my lady and I have a rather unhealthy relationship since as society does not like us very much or want us in their cliques we are almost entirely! dependent upon each other for contact, stimulation, support etc, and yes, I freely admit I'm luckyin her, one reason I don't like upsetting her with my generally negative attitude albeit it is a difficult attitude to move.

@hh, your probably correct that simply going off and doing something else is the best way of avoiding the ignorance, though the problem is that is what I've pretty much done for years and while it is a reasonable holding pattern that is all it is, since if I contemplate trying to do something else I still feel stuck.

It is particularly difficult when it touches directly upon a surviver related issue.
For instance last week I was in town which was of course crowded with annoying people my guide dog was struggling to navigate around. A woman ran straight into me and her hand hit my groin by accident, she then swore at me.

Public place, intimate touching, swearing! one of the worst triggers I've had for a long! time.
I make it to the bank where they have some seats and phone my lady and just ask her to talk to me, to try and keep myself grounded and where I am, and yes, in ten minutes I have pulled myself together.

I decide to continue shopping since we really need food, make it to the supermarket for the manager to tell me crossly " only got three staff today and their all on the three checkouts so nobody can help you today, come back later!" I pointed out (calmly), this was not reasonable, that he could in fact take one cashier of a desk for the ten minutes or so necessary to get my shopping, that indeed he was! breaking the law.
He wouldn't have any of it.

"no!" he said loudly and quite rudely "sorry too busy!" and then that immortal "Well it's not my! fault you can't see"

I then leave feeling down right furious, and just for good measure whang my head on a metal bar.

In fairness even on that occasion my fits of frustration do not last long, (five minutes at most though I am told and I do believe I can be quite ugly inside those five minutes), and I do indeed do as you suggest, make coffee, listen to something good music wise etc and I am usually fine, indeed my lady admits herself that I am never angry for long (one reason I tend to yell loudly rather than simmer).

I do worry though about upsetting her, and about becoming ugly, since to be absolutely honest, much as I do sort o fwish that that stupid man did indeed go blind, lose his job and have to cope, if I heard it happened I doubt I actually would laugh since my empathy is not something I can turn off.

I am also fairly sure that if I were! in a where I felt I was something more significant with my life, if my singing or writing was making a difference or if those so called friends! of mine weren't forever too busy with their offspring to contact me, I would feel this significantly less, since it's far easier to cope with people's ignorance if you aren't alone.
undoubtedly my lady has helped considerably with this, ---- since before I met her I actually had moments when I wished that the human race (including myself), would end, where I could see no good in anyone or anything, but unfortunately it's still not where it needs to be and I don't want to hurt my lady with my expression of this, or indeed my unwillingness to bother trying to break into the collective despite a lack of contacts, or acceptable appearance or all of the other things the collective likes.

Luke.


Edited by dark empathy (08/08/17 09:35 AM)

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#514295 - 08/07/17 02:47 PM Re: Negativity and being at the mercy of others? [Re: dark empathy]
HealingHope Offline


Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 280
I'm so sorry those situations happened and made more complicated by such difficult triggers to manage. People are just so defensive, I find when they're in the wrong they lash out, zero awareness or thought for others. A simple sorry goes a long way.
Also really get what you mean that distractions are only a coping strategy, doesn't get to the root.

I've just re-read your worries about your Lady and how you're worried you're upsetting her? If there's anything thing I can do to help your worries there, I'd be happy to understand more?


Edited by HealingHope (08/07/17 02:51 PM)

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#514417 - 08/09/17 05:33 PM Re: Negativity and being at the mercy of others? [Re: dark empathy]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2670
Loc: durham, north england
Hi Hh.

My worries concerning my lady aren't exactly worries as such. We don't fight or yell or the like, however she is sometimes shocked at when I say something severely ugly, or when I actively show little to no compassion for one of the collective's darlings.

For example I know a tenor who is also called Luke. however he is extremely pretty, a dancer, has been to music school and of course has a mother who is a professional singer and a father who is a director. he has slept his way through a number of relationships (I know because three his x girlfriends told me as much, two of them mentioning he'd cheated on them with a different girl).

My lady did say when she heard him sing he was technically extremely good but utterly cold, with no emotion behind it. I replied "it doesn't matter, who needs to be good when you have connections, after all I bet nobody ever given him an excuse. I hope he fails really badly! accept he won't since that's how the world works"

She genuinely sounded shocked and said "You don't sound like yourself"

I also know she finds it similarly difficult when I can muster absolutely no hope of things changing. For example, I sent of the professional article I mentioned in the first post to be published, complete with a bio (which my lady read through with me and helped tweak,r being better with people generally than I am), and when I sent it I said "there its done, I wonder if they'll send a rejection or just ignore me"
My lady replied "that's terrible! we have to try"

I don't say she is wrong either, her comments likely quite legitimate, its just my experiences, everything from the abuse to the years of my life going absolutely no where haven't left me with a great attitude towards people, and unfortunately the things that I most feel express who I am, my writing and my singing, are both things that require the judgement of people to actually do, and my experiences of that have been pretty dam negative.

Actually my councillor himself said that having my phd thesis failed in 2013 after initially it being accepted had done me a significant amount of damage, ---- btw, its still! not been fully accepted since at my last viva they commented that after all the stupidities of rejections and rewrites I haven't referd to any current articles in the field (well of course I bloody haven't I finished writing the dam thing in 13), so want me to add an extra appendix, which I'll likely start working on later this year.

it also doesn't help that my lady herself wants to sing, and I can't be the least bit positive about attempts to find opportunities to do it since I've failed so badly, and tend to respond with l it seems impossible if you don't go to music! school!" (and yes, I usually say this with a sneer, since I've applied to three different music schools and each time been rejected on grounds of sight, yet I haven't been to music school I don't meet all the nice little cliques and connections others do, sod them!).

My lady is wonderful, and I love her beyond reason, but I do worry about this since I feel so stuck in my life and don't see a way of getting unstuck since it is not my! fault, its the collective, i.e. all the nasty little assumptions people pickup without meaning which keep the powerful in power, elevate the cliques and lock everyone else out.

As I said in one of my poems (based on Desolation row by Bob Dilen:

the line it is drawn, the curse it is cast,
The race is still won by the strong and the fast,
The future seems now to be much like the past,
why change what can't need replacin'
The last one we punish shall ever be last,
and the times they are a changin'

Luke.

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#514418 - 08/09/17 06:07 PM Re: Negativity and being at the mercy of others? [Re: dark empathy]
jewelgirl50 Offline


Registered: 06/22/17
Posts: 31
I totally get what you are saying Luke. I have a very negative view of humanity (somewhat of an oxymoron) as evil, greed and immorality surrounds us. I am retired now so I am somewhat immune from this, but I have seen that incredible talent does not necessarily end in success. I look at pop stars and rich people in the same light because I perceive wealth in its excess to be greed, as the acquisition of material items goes beyond necessity and morphs into the ridiculous. The elitism and sense of superiority of the aforementioned groups is disgusting. I think your frustration is warranted. I think that the most important quality a person can have is character. Seeing the world for what it is and accepting it will hopefully lead to some peace in your soul. It is difficult to have a positive outlook when life has shown you otherwise. However, to enter "the loop" is not serving you well. Don't let negativity overpower you and create vitriol, however, it is perfectly fine to look at reality for what it is. I hope this helps.

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