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#512564 - 06/25/17 03:57 PM Emotional empathy versus compassion empathy
Mishka95673 Offline


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 351
.


Edited by Mishka95673 (06/28/17 03:02 AM)

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#512589 - 06/26/17 08:02 AM Re: Emotional empathy versus compassion empathy [Re: Mishka95673]
HealingHope Offline


Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 280
Interesting. Thanks for sharing this.
I've always seen empathy as seeing feeling and understanding things through their eyes not my own. It's also Showing that we do too. I think that's where the confusion lies. The minute we get drawn in by our own stuff, we're not actually empathising and that's the problem when you love someone... you have a connection, what happens to one effects the other. Empathy is seeing, feeling and understanding but with one foot on the bank, not jumping in the boat with them. That's when it's dangerous and we can hinder our survivors as well as ourselves.
That's why it's so important to work through our own issues so we know when we're being drawn down a path that's Not keeping one foot on the bank.

For me I see that my survivor needs me Not to get drawn on those things, but still needs to know I "see" him. If I was just being compassionate he would know it's not really me.... my heart & soul. He told me once I tried to, said it made me 'cold'... I'm smiling remembering that because he saw through me!

Love you see is the key ingredient the links debate doesn't cater for. We're not health care professionals when we're in our relationships... well I know I can't be.
Compassion empathy is one way to keep boundaries but for me it's not my authentic self at all. Self care, healthy boundaries based on understanding my own needs and if they are being projected and owning those if I am being, is more 'real' for me, but I can see that this approach could be a useful tool.
The video is an interesting POV from a health care professional but in reality switching off the love would be impossible for me, so I've learnt other ways to stay safe, to see things as others do, and I hope as he does.

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#512591 - 06/26/17 09:07 AM Re: Emotional empathy versus compassion empathy [Re: Mishka95673]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2670
Loc: durham, north england
I don't know, I respect the perspective, but I am uncertain on it's clarity.

I remember in one discussion with a friend of mine who is a professional rogerian councillor I once asked her what she did about her not responding to clients.
She replied that she did! respond emotionally to clients, but she was in a remove where she could explain things.

indeed it would quite often happen that when we were talking, given that she was one of the people I could! talk to about abuse, she would sometimes say "that makes me quite angry" or "that makes me upset"

When I apologised, she was quite blunt on the subject.

"You! don't need to apologise, I'm just letting you know how I'm feeling. Your not responsible for how I'm feeling, that is to do with me and my history not yours"

This is actually an approach I've found myself following with my lady fairly often when sharing details of her past, I'll realize I'm feeling something and explain it rather than just reacting.

I don't think in this case it's a question though of empathy, so much as how feelings are expressed and what comes from them.

A constant problem with my mum is that frequently I'd get proposed solutions, even when I wasn't necessarily looking! for a solution, where my lady tends to react and be more honest about her reactions, which makes me want to try to do the same.

Then again all of this is really musing on my part, ---- after all definition of ethical terms and a philosophy graduate is rather like red rag and bull laugh.

Luke.

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#512593 - 06/26/17 09:56 AM Re: Emotional empathy versus compassion empathy [Re: Mishka95673]
HealingHope Offline


Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 280
Exactly this, Luke smile

"You! don't need to apologise, I'm just letting you know how I'm feeling. Your not responsible for how I'm feeling, that is to do with me and my history not yours"

Knowing this is critical when showing empathy. And critical to support others otherwise our our lack of awareness can project on to the very one we're trying to support. As you mention about your mother, nobody wants to be told how to fix when all they want is to be heard. I know this personally, I shut down completely if I'm lectured or feel judged.

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#512625 - 06/26/17 10:09 PM Re: Emotional empathy versus compassion empathy [Re: Mishka95673]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2670
Loc: durham, north england
Well Hh, I can't take credit for that one, that is one way in which my friend is quite wise.
I'll always be greatful to her since she was the one person I spoke to after that horrible day in 2007 when everything crashed, when my parents answer was "give it time" and "it'll come" and most of my friends didn't know what to say who just listened, one reason I always remember her advice, albeit I will be the first to admit I'm not always able to follow it as I should, especially with patterns related to my abuse.

I have speculated a lot on the difference between compassion and empathy, since I know people who are one and not the other.
My brother for example is extremely! compassionate, butt is very unempathic.

I am rather the other way around.
I'd say myself it's what we do! with the empathy that matters, how it is expressed, not the empathy itself that is a problem.

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#512628 - 06/26/17 10:33 PM Re: Emotional empathy versus compassion empathy [Re: Mishka95673]
Mishka95673 Offline


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 351
.


Edited by Mishka95673 (06/28/17 03:02 AM)

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#512646 - 06/27/17 11:28 AM Re: Emotional empathy versus compassion empathy [Re: Mishka95673]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2670
Loc: durham, north england
It is true that for health professionals there is a need to keep some emotional distance between yourself and interactions with clients, heck, sometimes when i read stories on this board I find a need to do that myself.

But I am not sure if that is to do with a change in empathy, or finding a way to deal! with what happens with said empathy.

My lady was refused a councilling position at one point since she was told she was too vulnerable (I and she suspect it was more to do with being too disabled but there you go).

I can see a little logic to this, since for someone who tends to be extremely gentle by nature she really can get venomously irate about the suffering of others, her reactions about my abuse have actually surprised me, since I! tend to be the one who is fairly relaxed on the subject where she tends to get vicious. Yet, she finishes with these things very! quickly and can put them behind her afterwards, it's actually one of the things I admire about her since she is far less prone to linger with anger or negativity of any sort, and usually said anger and negativity are on behalf of others.

Luke.

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#512647 - 06/27/17 12:07 PM Re: Emotional empathy versus compassion empathy [Re: Mishka95673]
HealingHope Offline


Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 280
I agree, Luke. I think the compassionate empathy discussed in the video isn't true empathy in my experience, because it's seemily switching off 'feeling. The key to empathy is seeing and feeling things through the eyes of the other person, not your own. So I also feel the way the emotional empathy type was described isn't how I was trained to experience & show empathy, because it talks about feeling the pain as your own. That's not empathy either.... again in my experience. I am a health care professional and empathy in my practice is as I've described above. In my experience you have professional boundaries to avoid jumping in the emotional boat with the client. One of those boundaries is knowing you've worked through your own issues in your own therapy, so the clients experiences and yours don't get immeshed.

In a loving relationship however in MY experience this is much harder, the compassionate empathy type is not authentic enough for me, but it may work for other supporters. I've worked on my own issues to try not to be emotionally living my experience instead of seeing & feeling his experience, but see it I hope through his eyes, or hope to without emotionally losing myself in his pain. As I mentioned in my first post,he saw through my "compassionate empathy" as not being me. I hope this makes more sense.
Thank you for the video.

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#512690 - 06/28/17 02:36 AM Re: Emotional empathy versus compassion empathy [Re: Mishka95673]
Mishka95673 Offline


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 351
.


Edited by Mishka95673 (06/28/17 03:03 AM)

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#512705 - 06/28/17 11:32 AM Re: Emotional empathy versus compassion empathy [Re: Mishka95673]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2670
Loc: durham, north england
@Mishka, Please don't feel my disagreement with the video or what you have said here was personal. Your certainly right that there is a position where getting too swept up in another's feelings can be a less good thing.
I will also confess that as I said, as a philosophy graduate, and more specifically an ethicist who has read a great deal on empathy this is actually the sort of discussion I just find interesting in and of itself, indeed thank you for bringing this up.

So I hope you don't get the idea that I am attempting to be dismissive of the point hereor not valuing what your saying, I just enjoy comparing notes on this sort of thing laugh.



@Hh, "compassionate listening" does seem to be the in thing in health professions at the moment.
My mum has been a physio therapist (particularly dealing with babies and children), for fourty years and once expressed it extremely well.
She had an entire three hours on "mindfulness" and how people should "be mindful of a parents' feelings when a parent loses a child" which asked professionals to "express themselves through body gestures", and "breathe mindfully" and "imagine what a parent is feeling! and try to express that feeling in a positive way!"

My mum's rather caustic comment was "most parents who just lose a child express their feelings through the medium of swearing, ---- and of course they do! they've just lost a child, what do you expect them to say! All you can do is sit there, let them swear at you, let them know your sorry since sorry is what your feeling, go and have a cry and move on!"

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