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#506434 - 02/12/17 05:55 PM So sure I was gay...
lumes48 Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 13
Loc: UK
I think I'd like some reassurance if possible?

Basically, my CSA happened up until the age of 7, by my brother. I don't know when it began. From that moment, males became objects of sexual attraction for me.

Alongside this, I had romantic attraction to females, I can't remember if it was 'sexual' - and now I'm thinking "But why would it be sexual, I had no idea what the female body was about..."

Anyway, from the age of 11, realising I'm sexually attracted to males caused me to identify as gay. 100%. Along with the feeling that I wanted a man to dominate me. Yet, all the guys I got with wanted me to be the 'top' - I'm too masculine in their eyes to bottom, so they say wink (which is funny, when I always viewed myself as a woman!)

So, I read a few posts on this forum. Something 'clicked' in my mind. And I went to bed last night thinking about females for the first time in my life; and it felt so right, and comfortable, and ordinary, and natural. And it makes me feel free. The fantasies I'd had about guys, and the experiences with them, had always made me uncomfortable, and feel dirty, obsessive, angry...

Did I seriously turn heterosexual overnight? I swear, if I did, I had no idea I was even into females... The guys I chose were, however, all ones who looked at me with that same cold, envious, blasé look that my brother would give me when he abused me.

There's more tied up in this, though, like my mum being extremely vulnerable and me not being able to look after her (I was an over-responsibilized child), and my sister suffering so much abuse when my dad had asked me to protect her... So I have this thing in me that always wants to protect women, but never felt capable because I let them both down, and I let myself be abused... **Note: I gently soothe myself when such guilt enters my mind; it's not my fault, and I'm accepting of that - but that acceptance has only occurred in the last week or so. So, seeing females as vulnerable = I struggle to sexualise. But having anger towards males because one of them hurt me = I find it easy to sexualise. ??

This is all very, very new to me... 24hours ago I was just a regular homosexual guy (with a shitload of issues, mind)... but even my body language has changed overnight... my confidence has increased... my sex drive (for females) has (re-?)appeared... I feel as if I've 'become a man', become true to myself... it's weiiiiiird.

How will all my female friends (all my friends are female!) respond if I start being hetero?! Ok, that sounds like a superficial worry, but I love them loads, they're like family to me...

Anyway... what I said I wanted is some reassurance... what I think I mean is that I want someone to tell me it's possible. What I'm feeling now is possible... because something in my mind is going "YOU CANNOT BE FUCKING SERIOUS. HOW?! SINCE WHEN?!!"

But I will say - I feel very, very happy with this... it really does seem to feel natural to me... Hmmmmmm....

Thoughts, anyone? Or, alternatively, just tell me I'm not mad wink

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#506435 - 02/12/17 06:08 PM Re: So sure I was gay... [Re: lumes48]
Ceremony Online   confused


Registered: 09/14/16
Posts: 782
Loc: Minnesota
Hi Lumes, I get you, please be assured, I think you're Ok. You can communicate what you're meaning, and are holding up the conscious issues about your experience and thoughts.

Now please allow me to be vulnerable, and that means to deprecate myself. In so many ways, I have not felt overt about myself, or that I can assert my insights, ideas, concern for or compassion toward others. I hold back, sad that my inexperience and fear of being idiotic do cause me to write this. I don't know much about sexuality but sense that I can help, I don't know much about gender issues, but sense my sensitivity is apropos, and it has become abundantly clear, here on MS, I'm overt regarding replies and posts ☺.

Be well, keep an open mind, stay good to yourself.

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#506439 - 02/12/17 08:31 PM Re: So sure I was gay... [Re: lumes48]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 904
Loc: washington
Hello. Lumes, I am a traveller, What I am saying is, I have taken, '"the inward journey". In my PTSD I have forgotten this journey,so i might have to go down the rabbit hole a few more times, but fear not. Whatever you find. You are, what you are.

Speaking of mad, The mad hatter was the sanest of them all. (Alice in Wonderland) Do you know why...??? Because he had to be insane, in order to live in an insane world. Sound familiar? If you are mad, that is ok. I think we are all entitled to be mad every once in a while.

Ok. Time? Not important. (in my opinion). I used to drive myself psychotic in trying to force the answers. I believe, that this is more about the journey and less about the destination. I honor your pace. Maybe this is not race. Could we agree we have time to explore?

Like a lighthouse in the fog, I look for truth. I look for absolute clarity. For me this process is not an absolute thing, like black and white thinking. (Truth vs. lying or being dishonest). To be clear, it's not about that.

Because of the abuse, I feel that we have denial systems imbeded in our matrix, that hinders us from seeing absolute truth. (These are survival techniques, we have created in order to insulate ourselves as a form of protection) In example, how dissociation works in order to protect the mind, . The truth changes, just like the fog lifts. That, I believe is the process for absolute clarity. All I ask is that you keep an open mind.

Now that being said, I don't believe all riddles(questions) have answers. In example nature vs. nurture.

In reading your post, I see two different things that we might want to separate in the quest for absolute truth.

I think it is important to try and attempt to figure out your sexual identity first. Am I a male, or am I a female or Somebody in-between...??? Simply, Who am I..???

The next question you have to ask, is what is my sexual orientation...??? This is, what sex am I sexually attracted to...??? Who do I want to try and have a relationship with...???
Male,Female or Somebody in-between?

Keep talking, We are here. Safe travels my friend...


The Child is Gone (Fionna Apple)

island


p.s. Personally, sometimes I wander into gender dysphoria, but perhaps we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole.
_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#506446 - 02/13/17 04:06 AM Re: So sure I was gay... [Re: lumes48]
lumes48 Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 13
Loc: UK
Thank you both... I woke up this morning with the phrase in my head "I need to be more open minded about all this", so that's definitely what I'll try to do.

Ceremony - perhaps you have very strong intuition? You say you don't know much about certain things, but sense you can help. Perhaps it comes from a deeper place of knowing where we can't logically assert how/why we 'know' things, we just do, we feel them? I've noticed over the last year that my intuition is pretty sound when I allow myself to hear it. Please know that you can feel free to share with me.

1islandboy - haha @ the mad hatter. For some reason, I've always identified more with him than anyone else in Wonderland. I get what you're saying. And regarding truth, clarity, fog and psychological protection - yes, I completely get that, though I only realised it very recently. Oh and my pace: I know! It can be crazy fast at times; but I will say what comforts me is that I know, in my heart, that the moment I enter therapy is the moment I'll slow down, because I'll have enough space to go over what happened in detail, and through that fog will come some clarity. I appreciate we're all fluid in our identities anyway, so I wouldn't expect there to be a concrete destination for the future; only a destination for the day, or the mood. Sexual identity: Male. Sexual orientation: Exploring. Thank you for the song smile

Thank you both again,
Take care,
Lumes

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#506450 - 02/13/17 06:40 AM Re: So sure I was gay... [Re: lumes48]
Ceremony Online   confused


Registered: 09/14/16
Posts: 782
Loc: Minnesota
It's pretty early where I am, but I wake up my phone when I can't sleep and read. There were some amazing posts (not mine) yesterday and I'm getting responses where I participated, well I am processing them. I am fighting the self esteem voices in my head. It is why I preface stuff, or slow down getting to a point... the responses were so kind, kindness dear, dear kindness. I've been noticing kindness toward me and how I react. It scares me? I'm pretty sure the bullying messed me up pretty bad. Lumes, I know it seems I'm just writing to you, but in my thoughts just now, I thought about many people.

I sense I'm overwhelmed when I encounter kindness, and now, just this morning, and this post, thought to write about it. I suppose it's a post for elsewhere, but my mind pushed all this out, just when I started tapping letters.

Why I thought to post to you again in this thread was to again acknowledge your needs, and what must seem the vulnerability toward exploring sexuality. Gender identity out of it. Yet, which to put first? Islandboy, to me seems aware of himself, letting what is, just be, and accepting. Gender fluidity is a topic I'm exposed to, but not about myself. I've identified as a hetero male, or cis gender. I guess to me the sexuality part seems more important.

I have pondered my reaction, with no experience whatever, and to me, isn't likely, but I pondered nonetheless, whether I were open to others gender identity to be intimate with? I concluded yes, and that surprised me. I'm cis, so, if I think a transitioned partner is Ok, that must mean, my way of seeing the individual is attuned to them, not there body? Heady stuff to me. I again state, no experience.

Then, what if I encountered someone who hadn't fully transitioned? Again, if I got as far as bed, and still didn't know beforehand? That seems unlikely, but just putting the possibility out there. Well, I still identify as cis, so I probably will not be intimate, but I know I wouldn't be repulsed or act put out. Why? I liked them, and lust put aside, that's been more important to me. Ok. I'm 55, way to old to go down the road of lust, I have a very healthy need and no function issues, just my mind! A bullied mind. A big deal really.

So, I think your waking up to explore women's bodies is a great idea if the woman responds? That's outside my experience.

I've had one partner and I'm married to her. She doesn't appreciate my monogamy, still pauses our conversations about serious stuff to ask/accuse me of an affair or am I gay?! She read a journal I wrote, where I pondered my gay friend from university coming on to me. I rejected it in as nice a way I could, and we remained close. He married before it was legal too. I love him as a dear friend who looked out for me. So, since I wrote about him in 1991, she still pops up questions whether I'm gay?! To spite her I get kinky about it sometimes. Mess with me too often I'll play mr. Twisty.

So, what about bi sexual? I hope you'll be satisfied with yourself if you find a guy, or transitioning person, and feel free in your sexuality to accept your experience is healthy? Gosh, I am not one to know, but if it were me, I would prepare my mind to accept the person I am attracted to, whatever their gender.

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#506481 - 02/14/17 01:13 AM Re: So sure I was gay... [Re: lumes48]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 904
Loc: washington
I might try and help others by guiding them in a certain direction, but I try really hard not to give advice. (nobody likes a know it all,and I am certainly not that). Initially, I came to MS as a disorganized lost soul that was tired of buying journals, only to lose them again and buy more. I was simply tired of buying journals only to lose them ,to purchase them yet again, thereby repeatedly financially victimizing myself.

My initial motivation was simply to find a place where I could construct a digital journal. As I wrote my journal, I realized a certain magic about this place. I found a dialog outside of myself. Other survivors added to my post and shared perspectives, I had never even considered. I was able to receive ideas outside of myself to help me on my journey. This inspired me to try and help others by sharing my experience and what I have found. Ironically this in turn, made me introspective and my care and concern for others, helped clear the fog in my mind, yet again. How cool is it, when we help others, we in turn help ourselves...???...!!!

I can't always be in the negative and the damage done, it's just not healthy for any of us to focus on any depressive thoughts for too long. I would say, one of the positive things about being sexually abused as a child is my empathy and understanding for others has been increased. I am absolutely positive a lot of us share this same superpower.

I would like to add that in my journey, I broke my mind trying to solve the riddle of nature vs nurture. As I was freewheel burning, I found a "term" that worked to serve as a fortress of solitude. Here, I could rest, find some serenity. Perhaps, I had found a rallying point, where I could work towards being comfortable in my own skin.

"PoMoSexual"

PoMoSexuals live life beyond the superficial labeling humans define their sexuality by. One does not necessarily know another merely because they are both Straight, Gay or Bi; PoMoSexuals take this into account and disregard the orientation label altogether.

It should be noted that PoMoSexuality itself is not a defined sexuality on the list of orientations to choose from. It is the equivalent of saying N/A. - The Urban Dictionary


I Kissed a Boy and I Liked It (Adam Lambert)

island








Edited by 1islandboy (02/14/17 01:58 AM)
_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#506506 - 02/15/17 07:58 AM Re: So sure I was gay... [Re: lumes48]
KMCINVA Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 3438
Lumes48

I am sorry for your struggles. I was speaking with the Diocese yesterday about my abuse. We went off on a tangent and started to speak of coping mechanisms. We all agreed none in the long term are healthy but unfortunately they may define or control our lives. They said for me I coped without addiction, self mutilation, etc but relied too heavily on dissociation. We talked about what is known and unknown about dissociation. It is believed some run to the abuse or alternatively run to a place to escape. This led to a discussion of what happens in the mind of a survivor. The ritual of reenacting or recreating the abuse was brought up. Like you have said it was a way to find comfort or peace but no pleasure from recreating the act of the abuse. They said for some it creates identity confusion which leads to many other problems. They said all the survivor is trying to do is cope or survive the trauma not as a victim but one who may willing choose to reenact to bring some peace that the trauma has robbed. Very confusing but I am learning much about trauma and I am amazed when some medical people speak how authoritative they are but lack substance, knowledge or understanding of trauma.

We talked about abused women who return to situations of abuse, why for the same reasons as CSA survivors--self esteem, need to find a way to control what has been done to them. Abuse can leave an imprint on the brain. The similarities is that pleasure is not part of the recreation nor is love. For those who experience pleasure and love from acts of the CSA it is most likely who they are and they should be proud of who they are. For those confused or who do not derive pleasure or love it may be the confusion for the need to control or relive the abuse or in some cases it maybe denial of their sexual identity. It is not easy and too many judge the survivor without understanding the emotional and psychological damage done to the survivor at a young age. You are exploring and trying to understand who you are.

I hope you find your way to peace and harmony with yourself. For I in dissociation supposedly ran to recreate the abuse but for me outside that part of me that was fragment their is no peace with the abuse and my life is enriched with a special friend who has shown me what love and intimacy can be. She understands connection and putting each first is important. I have experienced emotions and sensations that are no longer trapped in the world of the abuse. Now I only need to get the memories of him and the abuse out of my head or in a place that does not control my thoughts or state of being.

Thank you for sharing.

Kevin

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#506625 - 02/17/17 10:15 AM Re: So sure I was gay... [Re: lumes48]
lumes48 Offline


Registered: 02/11/17
Posts: 13
Loc: UK
Jesus... thank you all so much. Everything you've all said has been so helpful. If I'm honest, I've been avoiding coming back to this site because I felt I'd exposed too much of myself - I have a habit of, I guess, throwing myself in at the deep end and dealing with the consequences later. Well, the consequences were a huge fear of rejection, so I avoided facing it. Alas, none of you has rejected me... so thank you... I can't say that enough.

This feeling isn't going away, and it's super confusing me... But a small update: I carried on using the dating site I was using to meet guys, I was honest with this particular guy about where I'm at (well, I said I'm feeling 'fluid', I didn't go into details). My issue now: I'm meeting him for coffee later, not a date, just to see how we get on, and I've just realised thru Facebook he's in some way connected to (friends with) the last two guys I've repeated the pattern of abuse with...... I have no idea what to do, nor what I'm doing... So I'm eating, because eating makes me happy until the voice in my head calls me a fat fuck and then I want to eat more to hurt myself... sigh... i'm literally going in circles...


Edited by lumes48 (02/17/17 10:16 AM)

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#506949 - Yesterday at 11:33 PM Re: So sure I was gay... [Re: lumes48]
30something Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/15
Posts: 135
Loc: Southeast
Hope you're taking time to breathe, Lumes. I find even a couple minutes of meditation can help me refocus on what I really want to be doing.

Cheers,
Asa

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#506958 - Today at 08:02 AM Re: So sure I was gay... [Re: lumes48]
George Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 208
Loc: NY metro
Lumes48,

So much of who we should've been has been changed or hidden by years of faulty coping mechanisms that were put together by our childhood immature brains. Our brains made errant connections & built habits that often became our identity, weather welcomed or eventually accepted or even disdained. Only by working thru to the root causes of our fears, habits & drives that our abuse issues brought us can we discover who we could've & often still could be.

So much damage to our budding masculinity, our identity as boys is tied to how our fathers either did or didn't bring us into the fold of masculinity with love, attention, acceptance & affirmation. With out it, that leaves us needy and wanting it. My Father wasn't too involved, I was left needy for that male attention and affirmation, it was like the cherry ontop of the intense drive to reenact my abuse due to all the control issues. I too could've easily have been blinded into thinking that I was gay. If it wasn't for the strong desire to have the family that I never had as a child with a wife & my own flesh & blood kids, I would've went the other way. Even with that strong desire in me, I still fell over and over again to acting out with men in time of stress in my life. Confusing? you bet it is. It can drive you batty.

It sounds like you are finally uncovering who you should've and still could be, life's too short to stay stuck in a rut, embrace it and keep moving forward.
_________________________
Some of my story as told in a phone interview; https://youtu.be/Zc7wwnm7bV8

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