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#502 - 07/29/03 05:45 AM a lot of pain
MM Offline

Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
Iím so messed up Ö I was so terrified with my inability of making love with my gf, and then when she got here she talked to me in a way I never expected Ö she said to me she didnít want to have sex tonight and we just stayed in bed, and she hold me and kissed me and told me she loved me so much. It was the best feeling I had in my life, I had no fear at all.

We fell sleep, and then I had the worst nightmare ever Ö I was so scared, I went to the bathroom, I didnít want to wake her up. I just started crying uncontrollably, I just couldnít stop, I felt so much pain inside ... how could I go from feeling so much happiness to this excruciating pain ? It just hurts so much inside.

I canít erase those images from my head, I canít sleep anymore. Iím in the bathroom with my laptop, I just donít know what to do Ö I want to wake her up and talk to her, but Iím so afraid, Iím so embarrassed Ö I want to tell her what happened to me, the things Iíve done, but I donít think she deserves to go through all this shit.

How can I say to her that I was repeatedly whipped and beaten by my mom, even when I was older enough to say no? That she used to torture me while my father had his way with me? That she was always violent; I remember her laughing at me, hitting me while my dad penetrated me, touched me. It was so intense. What I wanted was to make him cum as quickly as possible because I was completely disgusted by the whole thing. I used laid down next to him on my back and he would crawl on top of me and begin kissing me. It was so horrible, but at the same time the actual orgasm felt good. I hated them each time it happened.

I never told her this; she thinks I was molested only when I was a little boy, I never told her that I had orgasms with that bastard. And now I canít have sex with the woman I love, what will she think of me? I know I have to trust her, she has been so good to me, but she doesnít know everything about the abuse, I just canít afford to lose her, she means everything for me. I canít come back to her side; sheíll realize the minute I look in her eyes. My head aches so much; I just wanted everything to disappear Ö

#503 - 07/29/03 06:48 AM Re: a lot of pain
Thad Offline
Administrator Emeritus

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 1752
Loc: Oakland, CA
She sounds like she is patient and loving - and able to understand a lot.

But you don't have to tell everything all at once - you can begin to tell her part of it - let her get used to what you are saying - not dump it all at once...

Also, it sounds like you have a lot of self shame - but you were not at fault - you were raped - hyper sexualized - and manipulated by your parents - none, I repeat, none of it was your fault

Many of us have a lot of confusion about how we felt - you talk about how awful it felt and also about being sexually stimulated - of course it was awful! - and your body reacted to the stimulation (that too is not your fault - that is how are bodies are!) our sexuality is a combination of our mind and our autonomic nervous system - we can will with our mind sexual stimulation - or - our body will react automatically by being stimulated (as a kid, I can remember getting a hard on just by the vibrations of riding a motorcycle, and other things too - I didn't will that - it just happened) also being penetrated can stimulate your penal(? is that right name?) gland and cause a climax

So the shame you feel for sexual response both from your natural body reaction - and from your confused hyper sexualized mind - WAS NOT YOUR FAULT !!!

Now, you say you could have said NO! - I doubt it. Once we have been sexualized - we are so confused - don't blame yourself for that. If you could have said no, you would have (it was repulsive to you) but we become so confused - you were traumatized - raped - betrayed by your parents - had no safety in your home - that is the worse kind of abuse! and you can not blame yourself for being a wreck emotionally and not knowing how to react - the traumatized kids I have seen - many of them could not begin to think what to do even when they were older -

So, my suggestion, take it slow with her - let her know as much as you feel comfortable with - but deal with your own shame as well - it is mis-placed - the shame is on the ones who abused you! As you begin to understand this - you will not expect her to adopt your feeling of revulsion and blame toward yourself - Besides, she sounds like one in a million - I'll bet she will understand a lot more than you give her credit for - and it sounds like she really cares. (is it inflicting this stuff on her? Well, ask y yourself, would you want her to share this stuff with you if it had happened to her? Would you want to be there for her?)

So take some deep breaths Ė calm yourself Ė as best you can Ė You will get through this, too.

"..this place isn't a discussion's a portal..." Lupin
"The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off." dwf's AA sponsor.

#504 - 07/29/03 08:11 AM Re: a lot of pain
RJD Offline

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
I'm glad I checked back before I continued with a responxe because Thad did such a beautiful heartfelt response to your post MM and said what I was going to say only he said it better and more concise.

I've said this before that I once knew a 45 y.o. woman with a husband and children who was still being sexually assaulted by her father. The abuse began early in her childhood at a time of absolute powerlessness against her father. As an adult, it is that same powerlessness that she experiences. The shame of her feeling powerlwss against her father's will,continued to devastate her entire adult life. Eventually she came to understand why she was so powerless against him and eventually broke ties to him. She taught me something about myself.

At 16 my mother was still taking me to bed with her. She did this until I went into the Navy at 17. I had been groomed by her since I was born, that I know of, the sexual abuse with her didn't start until I was about 13-14.

My little brother was my replacement in her bed.
I felt to powerless to protect him, I had been groomed to feel powerless.

My older brother used me sexually before she did, and he also used my little brother.
He had a daughter that I failed to protect too. There was no direct clues that he was doing anything, but in my gut I knew he was. Sure enough she is an adult and the truth is out. I failed to protect her too, and I have to live with that truth.

I also know I was trained to be powerless.

When my daughters were born I was terrified I might hurt them like I was hurt. Within 4 yrs of the birth of my 1st born, I was getting help. They are fully grown now, and they face life head on. My report card as a dad is in and it's looking damn good.

hang in there MM like Thad said.

One of these days you too can come to believe in the preciousness you were born to before they taught you otherwise. I suspect it is the same preciousness she experiences with you.

As I began to open up, all kinds of raw painful feelings percolated to the surface and wiped me out. It was a dangerous time (I had chronic suicidal thoughts). Take it slow MM. Be patient with yourself and kind. I believe you would do that for a perfect stranger and you deserve no less yourself.

Keep journaling! Here with us or by yourself, just keep writing and talk with a therapist.

#505 - 07/29/03 10:51 AM Re: a lot of pain
zadok1 Offline

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
Things get real screwy for us, especially because sex is basically an enjoyable thing. You end up thinking awful things about your self because you had your orgasm, you must be really sick to have enjoyed any part of the abuse. The bottom line is that an orgasm is a pleasant thing, and even under the worse most traumatic events, it still feels good on some level. That is the biological facts. It wasnít anything wrong with you.

One thing I have come to understand is that it is all about acceptance. Allow yourself to feel what you feel, and be who you are. I found the world isnít out there judging us as much as we build up in our minds. I found most people understand what abuse is, and that it wasnít our choice.

Iíll never forget lying in bed, staring blankly at the ceiling, choking on what I wanted to say. Then as I told my wife how this much older boy Ďshowed me a gameí, and how I liked the attention, how I liked the feelings, the sites, the smells. I told her how it hurt, how it felt good, how when he was gone, I liked it too much to stop. Explaining to her how I hated my self for liking sex, tortured my self for it, I thought she would never understand. As I told her how I used women, porn, masturbation and too many fetishes to count to escape my controlling and abusive father, we cried together.

For seven years, for a lifetime, I had hidden it from the world. I was so afraid how everyone would run away or think I was some sick freak. The day I just didnít care anymore, my life changed. When it didnít matter what anyone thought, and carrying all this around became harder than letting it out, my world changed. Many now know I was molested, and though most donít know the extent of it, I have never had anyone be anything but supportive. I know others here have had bad experiences coming out with their abuse, but I know even if it had gone bad, I would have still been free. The truth and not having to hide any more did that. So, f the world; be true to your self, and to who you have to be. after all in the end, all we have, all we can control is our selves.

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

#506 - 07/29/03 01:51 PM Re: a lot of pain
Sans Logos Offline

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5796
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...

Everybody is giving very good, sound advice.

I find jeff's posts very appealing, because all of his posts here recently have focused mostly on the the process that occurs once a victim decides to become a survivor, and this made me think along these lines regarding how it happened for me:

Abuse occurs then for the victim, the world changes irrevocably,and he becomes boy interrupted.

Usually very young and unable to fathom, and without a framework of reference in which to unpack the new feelings [sexual pleasure]and emotions[terror, awe, guilt] aroused in him, and usually part of a dysfunctional family system that forbids vocalizing the trauma, and certainly part of a society that shuns weakness in males [adding shame to the newly emerging emotional vocabulary], the victim is left alone with questions which will take him years to even begin to formulate, and at the same time, his life goes on as if nothing happened. He has a life's lesson thrust upon him years before it was meant to be addressed. It is as if had been forced to go from 1st grade to high school.

In order to survive the incidences, the victim creates a psychological, emotional and spiritual perception filter coloring every experience that the victim has, tethering him to a single moment in the past.

Having been overpowered, and in the experience comes to know the most powerful sensual experience of his life, the victim learns to recreate every relationship along these lines using it as a template for estabishing terms of involvment, and thereby trying deparately to recreate the initial feeling, much like wanting to recapture the first draw of nicotine in the morning.

Of course, many other corollaries crop up in his life to imitate and reflect this experience. He takes to drugs, alcohol, promiscuity, religion, all hoping to discover once more the life affirming event.

In the meantime, he continues through his rites of passage, and intuitively senses that his agenda is not appropriate to the rules of society, and adds confusion, greater guilt and shame, crossed/mixed emotions, and becomes more and more isolated within himself, and sometimes, all the while never letting on that he is scared silent.

He reaches a point in his life when the pain is too great and he begins to think about making a choice on whether to live or die.

If he is lucky, hope finds a way to get a message to him. Hope finds a crevice in the shrouding armour, and incinuates its light into the labrynth of jumbled pathology of confused thoughts and emotions.

Then one day, the world changes irrevocably, as he beings the long journey of debunking the myths that kept him cloaked in safety for so long.

If he is lucky, his thoughts of death turn to thoughts of life. He begins to pick up the pieces of his shattered life and begins to build anew knowing that he can never unmake the past. He turns his sights to constructing a new inner life for himself, and his fruitful life becomes a beacon of hope for others who are still in victim mode.

He learns to trust both himself and others for the first time in his life. He begins to learn a lesson that he skipped a long time ago: that the world is a great and awesome bountiful place, and is his for the making.

He proceeds to act as if he believes this truth, and will never succumb to the wiles of the darker emotions, because he has learned to have a "glass half full" mentality.

The word is a better, more peaceful place because of his wisdom, compassion.

He has become a survivor, and more, a thriver.

That's how it has worked for me.

Thanks for the opportunity to sum it up.

Thanks for being key characters in my downhill struggle for survivory.



Ron Schulz, MSPC, NCC

#507 - 07/29/03 04:20 PM Re: a lot of pain
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
MM - The brothers are sharing some very solid advice and suggestions. Remember, we can do that here because most of us (if not all) were where you are one time in our life. I can feel the hurt, betrayal, confusion, shame that beats on you and can recognize the tears of deep hurt and pain. You are not alone! What you are feeling is "normal" for the abnormal things you've had to endure!

Somethings you may want to keep in mind are that your inner healing in emotions and thinking usually comes before your body heals. We need to work on the inside and eventually the outside will catch up.

Placing self-blame is toxic and poisonous. I found I was trying to blame myself because if I was at fault, then I could correct it and it would stop. However, that was a lie. I was the victim of a more powerful person. To think I had any control let alone any consent to "let the perp" do it is wrong, doesn't make sense and is an outright lie. Try to STOP believing the lies the perps fed us.

As far as age and being a teenager, realize when the abuse started your emotional maturity may have been a teenager on the outside but "little MM" was inside. That little innocent boy who never grew up "believed with all his heart" that there was not hope and no resistence! You could have been King Kong and the perp had his control over you. You were never the problem, you were never in control and you were never to blame!!

MM, you are very courageous in overcoming your fears. No, I'm not crazy!! The fact you overcame the fear of reaching out and speaking up and sharing what you did with us, tells me you want to be a survivor! You want to take your life back! You want to share with your gf! You are a survivor now and you can only get more of your life back! Keep working through he pain.

Hope this helped! Keep sharing...we are there for you!


If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

#508 - 07/29/03 06:15 PM Re: a lot of pain
BT Offline

Registered: 06/25/03
Posts: 388
Loc: Chicago IL
MM, I am glad to see that you are continuing to post and trust all of us enough to include us in your pain and your healing.

As strange as it sounds you are starting the process of healing, of taking control of your life and not letting the abuse and the manipulation of your parents continue to control your feelings and emotions.

One of the hardest steps to take is to trust someone else, someone that you love and that loves you. To me one of the worst results of my SA is not the memories, nightmares, not even the sexual confusion, and not the fear of what I might do, but it is the inability to trust someone with all the truth. Like so many others what I first told my wife was very limited. I was convinced that If she knew she would not be able to handle it and would leave.

I am still learning to trust her and have a long ways to go, but she does know what happened to me know and all the things I was so ashamed of that I did growing up to where I am now.

I am still amazed that she is not only still with me but at how much closer we are. I still don't completly understand how she can love me so much. It is hard to accept but I am trying.

I say all that to get to this point. Don't underestimate the strength and Love of your GF. We tend to transfer our feelings of shame and guilt and inadequacy to those we love and assume they will feel the same way about us because thats the way we feel so it must be true.

But it is not true. We have nothing to be ashamed of or guilty of and while it still amazes me those we love see that better than we do.

Take it one day at a time. Talk to her about trusting her and how hard that is. believe her when she tells you what she thinks. Don't second guess her and think she wouldn't Love me if she knew this or that. She doesn't love you because of what has happened to you or what you have done or any of that. She loves you because of who you are. She loves you because of the incrediable strength you have to have survived. She loves you because of your compassion and love for others. She loves you because you are a wonderful man, capable of so much. She sees through your fears and knows that despite what you believe you will be a wonderful father. Loving and protecting your children like no one else.

While you can't believe in yourself, believe in her and what she sees. Believe in her love.

My best to you.


"Everyone is entitled to their opinions and it is not my job to change their mind." Dali Lama

#509 - 07/29/03 06:15 PM Re: a lot of pain
ernie Offline

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 121
Loc: Portland, Maine
So many encouraging words from some courageous men.
I fealt for so many years that no one could possibly believe that this really happened, it is something movies are made of. No "normal" being abuses a 4 year old boy, no uncle abuses a nephew, no stranger walks up to you an offers "sex" at a rest area..............well guess what, all the above are wrong. No matter if the abuse happened once, twice, a hundred times, you are the victum, you are the one that was robbed of your youth.
Robbed, like a theft in the night of what you deserve. Not only you but your spouse, your significant other, your family. Robbed of the person that is hiding within you.
You WILL find this person, you can be whole again. Its a battle and the hill is steep, get the help you need, ask for the advise you need. No ones history is a Hollywood movie, it is reality....plain and simple....a reality, it happened and it happened to you by some very sick individuals.
Enjoy the hugs, treasure every minute of them, hopefully they will overtake the pain because they are from a person that really cares about you. Don't forget to give that hug in return, how I miss and regret not being able to do that. It isn't all about sex you know, it is also about caring, compassion, understanding, tenderness, and unconditional love.
I sincerely hope you find peace again, it is a steep hill and takes a long time to figure it all out but stay strong, seek your answers.

The roads of life are full of stones but, they can be moved take my hand we will help each other.

#510 - 07/29/03 11:17 PM Re: a lot of pain
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I didn't "wake my wife up" for 31 years, and I missed so much.

The support we can get from someone who loves us, believes in us, see beyond our abuse, is staggering at times.

My wife discovered by accident, by reading my journal for which she felt so guilty, that I'd been acting out and giving strangers blowjobs.
She felt worse about reading my private journal than the f****g bj's ! How confused was I ? don't ask.

But she also knew that it is something I would have told her about sooner of later. I'd already promised "no secrets, but at my pace" - she just hurried it along a bit.

The point I'm making is that love can go past all the shit. Her words to me where "It wasn't you going to those toilets to give bj's, it was those bastards leading you by the hand"

She realised that my troubles were deep rooted, and stemmed from my abuse. And as long as I was trying to get better then as sure as hell she was going to help me by understanding what I went through, and was going through.

Why ? because she loved me.

I know there are men here who's partners couldn't deal with it and have left them.
But I see no sign of that at all. Your girlfriend is beside you, supporting you, wanting you to get better, loving you.

Don't worry about sex for the moment, I know it's nice and we all want the perfect sex life with the person we love. But sometimes we have to take a step backwards to make the leap forward.

Your emotions are having a riot on you at the moment, try to ease them off. Try to think of one aspect of your abuse problems at once. It's easier said than done I know only too well.
But we have to get ourselves into a position where we can say "ok, lets get started"

A good starting point is believing that -

It wasn't your fault.

You didn't ask for it.

Your body reacted to a normal, physical stimulation.

You are not alone.

We, are not alone.

We can help.

Your Girlfriend loves you.



Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#511 - 07/30/03 04:28 AM Re: a lot of pain
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1986
Loc: Flint, Michigan

I know and feel your anguish. My first sexual encounter with a woman (or anybody) in a not being used by my perps, had left me deeply disturbed. I felt that I had done the same to her that had been done to me. It would be another 12 years before I would even try again.

Even then, I was less than functioning. I was able to achieve an erection, but not an orgasm. As of my last new relationship, my future ex-wife, it took three or more encounters before I could have an orgasm with them. If I ever saw, or imagined, the slightest discomfort or something similar, it would trigger me, and I would immediately loose my erection and go into a deep funk. It took a long time before I came to realize that some people do enjoy having sex. That having sex with them wasnít victimizing them, as was done to us.

That was a nice day, to be able to have sexual relationships, to actually enjoy sex. I even began to enjoy those first several times that I cannot orgasm. The feeling that I am harming them still remains to this day, but I can see that they enjoy it and I usually enjoy it. Receiving oral sex is still brings on an onset of horrible memories, and anything near my anus will do me in. I am very reserved sexually.

I adore cuddling and holding each other. I would much rather spend a night just holding each other tight and listening to gentle music, than to actually have sex.

I never had the courage, nor the desire to allow anyone to know about the sexual assaults against me. I instead left them deep inside of me, let them affect my ability to have an open relationship, to let them affect my partners without them knowing why. Thus I am about to get my second ex-wife.

It sounds like your gf is a wonderful person. She is willing to work with you to find your way, to give you some support that you deeply need and that she is not rushing you to get there. So donít rush yourself, donít traumatize yourself trying to do something you arenít ready to. You have let her know why you are unable to make love to her and she seems to be very understanding. As time goes on and you share some of your fears and the reasons for them, she will understand even more and be able to be more of a support.

Bless you. I am glad you found this place, it has been a great help for me in the short period I have been here. I am truly sorry that you needed to find this place and that you were deprived of a childhood, a happy family, and that it is trying to deprive you of having relationship and happiness. Hang in there MM, hang around and ask questions, rant, and join in. Maybe someday you will feel comfortable enough to find a T, but for now you have a gf that will provide the support you need.

I wish I could be more of a help. I donít have much experience on how to help them heal, I just learned where they are and how deep they are.


Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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