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#48238 - 07/12/04 08:24 PM new
A Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 5
Found this site and board today. It seems like this is a topic I just can't get away from. I've had tons of therapy, am in AA and SAA and work it well. It all keeps coming back to the abuse.

Well, here's a problem I have. In my mind, the details of the abuse don't seem all that bad, therefore the abuse is not bad. It wasn't violent so I have a really really really hard time feeling worthy of calling it abuse. I've read definition upon definition of sexual abuse and it qualifies. I know it's not rational but it's a stumbling block.

It's like some alcoholics in AA - they don't have all the "war stories" or fantastic drunkalogues, so they don't really feel that they are true alcoholics. In the same way, I think I can keep from having to address it because it's not real abuse...

Also, I have an incredibly hard time getting angry at the people. It's like I still see/think of them from my 4-6 year old self.

I'm not putting details in because I think that may be what you all mean when you refer to triggers. Everything I've read here so far has been painfully uncomfortable, so it all feels like a trigger, if I'm using that term right. We use a different meaning in SAA to indicate an event that leads to acting out addictively. Set me straight on how we use it here, please. Do we use it in a PTSD sense?

My therapist challenged me by saying he is surprised, with all the work I've done, that I'm not further along. In talking that through, what we discovered is that I can talk a really good recovery game about this, but I haven't really gotten into it deeply and started the process.

Anyway, not much of an introduction but have to start somewhere.


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#48240 - 07/12/04 09:29 PM Re: new
Archnut Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 343
Loc: United Kingdom
A

Welcome to the site, sorry that you need to find us.

I have been a guest member here for a few years now I have been a member of AA for a lot longer (30 years in fact). I saw/see my abuse by my original abuser as not being all that bad. Ive been in therapy now for nearly two years and I still cant get it. However I do see my abuse by the group of perps (my original abuser was a memeber of this lot also) as very bad and destructive, it took me a while to reach that place but I managed it.

I dont have any advice only my experiences.

Stay close to this room there is a lot of wisdom in here, sorry if that sounds familiar to an AA meeting.

regards

Archnut
"And all that was left was hope"

My Story (Triggers)
http://www.waltonhop.blogspot.com


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#48241 - 07/12/04 10:59 PM Re: new
BT Offline


Registered: 06/25/03
Posts: 388
Loc: Chicago IL
Welcome A. I hope you do find this place helpful. You will certainly find a lot of great guys and a lot of experience.

And I want to add that it does not matter at all whether you "feel" like the Sexual Abuse was a big deal, or damaging or anything else. Feelings at their best, can rarely be trusted.

The fact is that you were used, by someone who did not care about your life, your choices, your future etc...

So, don't believe for a minute that just because you don't feel a certain way that what you are going through is any easier, better, worse, different, harder, or any other adjective you can think of.

Again, welcome and I hope that we can be of help to you and you to all of us.

Brent.

_________________________
"Everyone is entitled to their opinions and it is not my job to change their mind." Dali Lama

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#48242 - 07/12/04 11:12 PM Re: new
FLRich Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
A,

Welcome. I joined Male Survivors last month. I too, was almost ashamed to even be here when I read of the abuse these guys have gone through. I thought I had nothing to complain about. But they all told me that we each had to deal with our issues. It isn't a contest about whose abuse was worse. It was all bad! I finally realized that if, in fact, my abuse was insignificant, then why was I looking for answers? Why was I having nightmares? Why was I online actively searching for help on a site like this. We are all abused, no matter the degree. This is the best site online and the bravest bunch of real men on the planet.


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#48243 - 07/12/04 11:39 PM Re: new
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
A
Welcome to our world, not that any of want to be here - but here we are.

Quote:
It's like some alcoholics in AA - they don't have all the "war stories" or fantastic drunkalogues, so they don't really feel that they are true alcoholics. In the same way, I think I can keep from having to address it because it's not real abuse...
I think you might be onto something here, maybe you've been working to hard on the affects rather than the cause ?

Most of us show some affects, well all of us I suppose! - some drink, some do drugs. Others act-out sexually, we have depression, PTSD, DID and the list goes on.
The temptation is to just treat the affects, just like a hangover. We take aspirin and feel better, but next weekend we do it all again.
We know what causes the hangover, but being men we never admit to it.

It can be the same with our "affects", we do some work on them, go to AA and therapy, and feel a bit better - for a while.
We have to go back to do the job properly, back to the abuse.

So never discount what happened to you as being insignificant, one small abusive incident can have long lasting and serious effects on us.
There is no league table of abuse, it's all bad.

Stick around A, the support and help here is as good as it gets.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#48244 - 07/12/04 11:59 PM Re: new
Kenn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 146
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Hello A:

I just came on board yesterday and want to tell you I relate to most of what you said.

Until I recognized abuse in my past for what it was - abuse, and not mere curiosity - I suppressed it or, equally unhelpful, minimized it.

30+ years since it started, however, and I have plenty of evidence to suggest how I reacted to it, and my life has been anything but "minimal" - qualifying for every _.A. fellowship there is, practically, depression that I did not begin to get treated until AFTER I got HIV in 1990, therapy on and off since I stopped drinking in 1988, and yet it was not until 1990 - again post-HIV - that I identified the abuse as abuse.

So I started to "deal with it" and, just when I thought I had finished, it came back - time and again it all goes back to the abuse (by a stranger, repeatedly, between 12 or 13 and 16).

No matter how much I think I have "let go" of the resentment the trauma is still within me.

So I'm frustrated to be looking at it, yet again, but it did not come up in therapy again recently for no reason. And I didn't "Google" this subject and find my way here last night for no reason.

I did not mean to respond in such great length but I relate to "the details of the abuse don't seem all that bad" but when I ask myself, "If that 12 or 13 year old boy was to go home and completely confide in his parents what had started happening, might things have been different?" I know I would have received help immediately.

I trust the process.

Kenn

_________________________
"This above all; to thine own self be true."

William Shakespeare, Hamlet

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#48245 - 07/13/04 12:31 AM Re: new
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Welcome A!

Trriger waring means different things. When I put that on a post or reply I mean that something I am about to write could well cause a reader to have a flashbacks, nightmares, or memories that they do not want to deal with at this time.

I am in AA and I do not have the war stories. I got flat out drunk once in my life--when I was 9 or 10 and at my sisters wedding. After that, I usually just drank more than what would have made it safe for me to drive. I just wanted to get to a point where I could forget my pain and hopefully sleep at peace.

Sexual abuse is a matter of feeling betrayed and personaly violated for me. At the age you mention, anyone who was an adult should have known that it could harm you in the future to do whatever they did.

Take care.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#48246 - 07/13/04 06:52 AM Re: new
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1984
Loc: Flint, Michigan
A,

Not much I can add, besides my welcome. Welcome. I hope you find MaleSurvivor.org to be as helpful for you as I have for me.

Take care,
Bill

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#48247 - 07/13/04 09:16 AM Re: new
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Hey, A,

Welcome to the best brotherhood on the planet. These guys will continue to uplift and care for you as they have in their introductions.
I just wanted to make a comment or two about what you said about your abuse not seeming to be as "bad" as some of the others here.
I had that feeling too, when I first came here. You see, no one held a knife to my throat. With me it was the, "Candy Man," pure and simple. He gave me the attention that I craved and those trips and clothes, money and food helped seduce me beyond any dignity that I thought that I had. It took me far too many years to realize that I was not the pile of shit that I thought that I had become.
Hopefully you have a good therapist who will help you get beyond the stuff that is holding you back from what you want to do, from whom you want to be.
If there is anyway that we can help you along the way, just give us a, "say, hey," and we'll come a runnin'.
One of your new brothers,

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#48248 - 07/13/04 03:25 PM Re: new
A Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 5
Thank you everyone. There is so much comfort in not being alone. Just to know that there are people out there that know what it feels like to be me. All I've ever really been exposed to so far is the facts of different people's experiences. Therefore, I instantly see differences. When I can start to hear about how it has affected others, how it has impacted their lives and relationships, how it makes them feel, what they have been through - then I see similarities. I need that. Just like so many things, I don't want to be alone with this.

I realized something yesterday after spending some time here and reading some other literature - it's not going to happen to me again. That may seem strange for a 35 year old to say about abuse that occurred when he was 4-6 but much of the fear I walk around with feels like a little boy and I find it reassuring to tell myself it's not going to happen anymore.


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#48249 - 07/13/04 04:12 PM Re: new
Aden Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
A,

Welcome! I've not been here long, but so far I haven't managed to find anything or anyone to be a negative factor. There seem to be some truly caring people here. It is the first opportunity I've had to talk openly about my childhood sexual abues, with guys who understand.

This seems to be a place where you can honestly sort out these kind of issues with the help of others who have been down the same road. This is a strange place that touches the soul in an unaccustomed manner. So far as I have seen, the citizens of this realm reach out softly and touch each other with the greatst of care.

I feel like taking a strole in this garden, and would be honored to have you along for company.

Aden


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#48250 - 07/14/04 12:12 AM Re: new
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I was just checking through the posts quickly before going to bed and I was thinking to myself "there's quite a few new guys here, and some old timers who we haven't seen for a while as well"

And in amongst the new guys and the regulars there is a feeling of such hope !
Just look at these small quotes from this topic alone

Quote:
but I relate to "the details of the abuse don't seem all that bad" but when I ask myself, "If that 12 or 13 year old boy was to go home and completely confide in his parents what had started happening, might things have been different?" I know I would have received help immediately.
'Kenn'


I realized something yesterday after spending some time here and reading some other literature - it's not going to happen to me again.
'A'

It is the first opportunity I've had to talk openly about my childhood sexual abues, with guys who understand.
This seems to be a place where you can honestly sort out these kind of issues with the help of others who have been down the same road. This is a strange place that touches the soul in an unaccustomed manner.
'Aden'
Isn't this some positive stuff ?
I come here nearly every night, and I'm always blown away by what I read here.

You guys, all of you, make MS the place to be.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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