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#47973 - 12/17/04 05:23 PM A hateful end
Aden Offline

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
I am not a Catholic. I am not even a Christian. But I am coming to despise the blind bigotry directed toward those honestly faithful souls who do so much good because of their faith.

It reminds me of back in the day when anti-nuclear power foes would drive to their protests outside the newest plant. 45,000 people perish in automobiles every year in America alone. Out of fear for what could maybe happen from a power plant accident, the protesting hoards loaded themselves into mobile coffins and demanded the end of universal enlightenment. Their success insured the 21st century “Oil Wars.”

The duality of human thought confuses me. We accept that which kills us daily out of fear of that which we think might kill us some day. We butcher the unborn out of convenience, and protest the convenience killing of human butchers. Children starve while little old ladies feed 27 cats. We save the whales and spotted owls while communities fall into ignorance and poverty. Then we condemn the communities for the ignorance and poverty into which we have cast them.

Do you think that evil will go away after you have subdued the church? Will abuse end when you have crushed the priesthood? Will you have everything you need when you have driven out all charity?

Condemn or forgive. Perpetuate or heal. You cannot have it both ways. Spit in the eye of the world or open your heart to the world. Overcome your fears or wallow in them. Am not suggesting it is easy. Just saying choose or lose.

#47974 - 12/17/04 08:34 PM Re: A hateful end
estuardo Offline

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 45
Loc: ohio
"Do you think that evil will go away after you have subdued the church? Will abuse end when you have crushed the priesthood? Will you have everything you need when you have driven out all charity?"


Not quite sure of your reasons for posting this, but I'm wondering if you understand why victim/survivors of clergy sex abuse are so 'up in arms' about what is going on.

If you have followed the sequence of events from the December 2001 Boston court ruling, the AD of Boston had to submit the documents regarding Geogan's (sp?) trial of sex abuse. What came from all of that was a very strong indication of collusion, conspiracy, and cover-up from the highest echelons of the Boston AD. Most people thought it was a fluke, I did, until more evidence shown up in the Bridgeport Conn. AD, then the NY AD, and so on, until you see the mess there is today.

What myself, and most other clergy abuse V/S want is the church to come clean, be accountable. They are using something considered sacred, holy, and making it into a 'den of thieves'.

As you have seen anywhere else, if you get caught, the law will fulfill it's purpose. So far, when the church gets caught, it manages to wiggle out of it. One has to wonder, who is pulling the strings.

I never fathomed that the church would do such stuff, even up to the point of this scandal breaking. My naive thoughts have only led me down the wrong path. I understand better now, and like everyone here, want those who are guilty to be put in prison, repent, and let the forgiveness process begin.

I've forgiven my abuser, but he won't accept it, because he doesn't see anything he has done as wrong. The church feels the same way.

BTW-the only thing I consider worse than a person who sexually abuses somebody, is somebody who knows about it, but does nothing, or worse yet, is part of the cover-up. The church still has many priests who fall in the cover-up category. Makes me wonder what else they are hiding.

"I'm entitled to my opinion...even if it's wrong."

#47975 - 12/18/04 02:22 AM Re: A hateful end
Rustam Offline

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 474
Loc: UK
Hi Aden,

I take your point about blind bigotry against the Catholic Church, I know there are many good conscientious priests and religious in the church, they do a lot that is good. I have a couple of uncle priests and aunts who are nuns. They were good people in my childhood and never abused anyone as far as I know.

Having said that I am a big critic of the way the church has failed even now to respond to the ‘abuse crisis’. In the Ireland I grew up in they were the most powerful and trusted people in our society, no one would dare challenge them, that trust has been abused in such appalling ways. I am so happy that the truth is at last coming out. I for one am shedding no tears for their loss of power in Ireland, its good for the society and can be good for them too. My own experience has been that there are normal decent people in the church but as an institution it is and I expect always has been institutionally abusive. Their own doctrine is that we must confess our sins to be forgiven, when they start practicing that themselves I think their critics can lay off.

They have been in business for two thousand years and are the biggest denomination in the world so I don’t see them getting crushed anytime soon. The church can change and improve. It’s sad that it is those whom they hurt so terribly who have to hold up the mirror for them, they are still largely refusing to look at themselves. I think it is only fair that those brave enough to stand up to the abusive aspects of the church be heard and supported.

I agree that individual priests should not suffer bigotry or prejudice because of their faith, and I have felt uncomfortable with some of the barely concealed crowing of other Christians around this.

Thanks for the post.



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