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#448379 - 09/27/13 01:43 AM in reply to Fascination
Shyshark Offline

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 690
Loc: Canada
I've come across a word that I think is meaningful
that was prompted by my desire to respond to
JoeSmith's poem "Fascination".

Please go to
and look up

... angst

The first definition of the word is perhaps the best
way I've heard it described as I perceive it for myself ...
and I think it covers the sentiment you are trying to convey
in your poem Joe.

I think it applies to all of us.


I want to know what pill to take...
I want to know what exercise I have to do ...
I want to go and kneel in front of the cross in a Catholic church until my knees bleed ...

I don't care what I have to do ...

just somebody ...

please ...

tell what I have to do to fix this!

Edited by Shyshark (10/21/13 11:21 PM)
Experience is a brutal teacher.

#448384 - 09/27/13 02:27 AM . [Re: Shyshark]
JoeSmith Offline

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 129

#448505 - 09/28/13 12:21 AM Re: in reply to Fascination [Re: Shyshark]
Shyshark Offline

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 690
Loc: Canada
Hi Greg ...

Welcome to the "we are dweebs" club.
We have a very large membership ... including those that won't admit to it.

This is a great place to hide.
That's what I'm doing.
I find other posts intimidating ... and I don't know why.
I think it's because by putting it in a 'poetic' form it allows me to say things indirectly
which saves me from having to take responsibility for them.
Don't worry about the rhyming thing ... I just like doing it that way.
It's more of a challenge ... it helps to keeps me interested.
You'll note that everything I write is not in that form and it's not how everyone does it.
Poems are meant to be expressive.
How you do that isn't important.

I have had therapy up the wazoo ... and even though it is absolutely essential for me ...
and everybody ...
it doesn't 'fix' anything.
Thus the angst.
I hesitate to be direct in saying such things in fear of discouraging the guys who are struggling
with getting help.
I am also keenly aware that because of my age, the life I have had, and the isolation I have chosen
as a way of life ... NOW ... that it scares the hell out of the kids.
They are terrified of ending up like me ...
and because they are kids and assume they know everything ... lol ...
it's hard to convince them that life doesn't work that way.
Who I am is not who they are destined to become.

I have no problem with talking about my abuse.
I have a problem describing it.
I was so little and have so little concrete evidence to back up my story.
I know what happened at 9 and in a way it saved me.
My revered Priest stuck his hands down my pants and fondled me.
I was so utterly shocked ... because by my understand priests were supposed to be little more than eunuchs ...
that I stopped him.
So I learned that I could say no.

The big problem is that with the previous 4 guys I did not say no ... I didn't want to say no.
I liked the attention .. even at that young age I felt starved for it.
My abuse was in the form of seduction.
Flattery and coaxing and making me feel that what I was doing was alright was how it happened ...
at least with 2, 3 and 4.
I have definite recollections of them in the form of 'senses'.
Taste, touch, smell ... etc.
The sound of a hushed voice ... twilight like darkness ... the smell of old fashioned car upholstery ...
wandering around my Dad's garage trying to find something clean to wipe the stickiness off my hands
and something to drink to take the bitter taste out of my mouth ...
a pale white arm with golden hair (#2)
a pale white arm with redish blonde hair and covered in freckles (#3)
which were brothers,
being led by the hand across a grassy place on a very warm day to a place that smelled funny ...
which I now know was the fairgrounds and in a musty, dusty, empty room and the smell of nearby outhouses ...(#4)
among other things ...
which leads us to #1
I was between 3 and 4 ... closer to 3 ... and to put it simply he was a guest in our home for a few months.
My Mother had suffered yet another miscarriage and I was a handful ... my brother and sister were already in school ... and he would take me away so my mom could rest.
I have had a vision in my head my entire life ... wavy black hair ... deep brown eyes ... 5 o'clock blue shadow
and most important ... a deep cleft in his chin.
This became in adulthood my sexual ideal in a man ... especially the chin.
Things fell apart in my life at age 36 ... which jump-started the panic attacks, daytime visions (I didn't dream)
and extreme sensitivity to certain smells. (my biggest source of memory)
I can't say that I had repressed it all ... I just didn't remember it.
I went to my doctor ... who saved me ... and asked a simple question.
"Is it possible to have been sexually abused and not know it?"
He got up and came around from behind his desk, sqauted down beside me and put his arm around my shoulder and said ...
"Yes ... it is."
That began my long journey of painful discovery.
My first shrink managed to tweeze all that out of me over the span of 2 years.
Two more shrinks, a number of T's and groups all helped to confirm his findings ... and to add to them.

Of course ... that hardly tells the whole story ... but like everybody else ... it would take volumes to tell it all.

I hope that gives you at least an idea of where I come from.
My legacy was to deny my sexuality until I hurt the woman I loved with all my heart ...
to have 3 long term loving relationships with men ...
and have an uncontrollable compulsion to seek out ... be chased and caught by a man ... to have my way with him ...
and discard him almost immediately to go on to the next guy who showed me and proved to me that he desired me ...
in a one-night-stand fashion.
So I was unable to be faithful to the ones who loved me ... much less myself.

That's enough for now ... and I hope this makes sense because I am not going to proof read it.
That is a guaranteed way to ensure that I will not submit this.
Experience is a brutal teacher.

#448506 - 09/28/13 12:43 AM Re: in reply to Fascination [Re: Shyshark]
Shyshark Offline

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 690
Loc: Canada
... and I would very much like to hear your story too.

Ordinarily, when someone asks to hear more details about me, I go to messaging.
Not because what I have to say about the abuse itself is more graphic ...
but because the results of it are.

Most of what I talk about is the later years of my life ... my adulthood.
It's the consequences of what happened to me that's important to me.
I couldn't help what happened ...
My failure to help what happened later is what keeps me awake at night.
Experience is a brutal teacher.

#448515 - 09/28/13 01:42 AM . [Re: Shyshark]
JoeSmith Offline

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 129

#448529 - 09/28/13 04:03 AM Re: in reply to Fascination [Re: Shyshark]
Shyshark Offline

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 690
Loc: Canada
Hey Greg ...
Thank for the kind comments.
I think you might taking too much Xanax ... :P

My story ... like everybody's ... is unique ...
but the same.
I often feel unworthy of being among men who suffered such horrors ...
but rest assured ...
I will accept and respect and understand without fear what you share with me ...
with us all.

I hope you are sleeping the sleep of the little boy you once were ...
carefree and happy and safe.
There was a time when that was true ...
We shouldn't forget that.
However brief ...
we were all children.
Experience is a brutal teacher.

#448592 - 09/28/13 01:49 PM . [Re: Shyshark]
JoeSmith Offline

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 129

#448615 - 09/28/13 05:23 PM Re: in reply to Fascination [Re: Shyshark]
Shyshark Offline

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 690
Loc: Canada
We are all the same.
We are men who were sexually abused ... period!
Experience is a brutal teacher.

#448647 - 09/29/13 12:18 AM . [Re: Shyshark]
JoeSmith Offline

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 129

#448660 - 09/29/13 01:56 AM Re: in reply to Fascination [Re: Shyshark]
Shyshark Offline

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 690
Loc: Canada
Hi Greg ...

... and I am overly touchy.

Truthfully ... it wasn't your view of same and different that made me angry.
I'm more than happy to argue a point. It's the only way to rethink things.
There has be something from outside ... whatever it is ... that makes you question yourself.
New ideas rarely come spontaneously from within ... there has to be a stimulus ...
which is the whole point of discussion and sharing ... to make us think "outside the box" ...
and break free from constantly saying the same thing to ourselves.
We come here as victims ... all the same ... but when we arrive we are simply persons ...
each one different.
Now ... I can see how somebody might find what I say a bit preachy ... I tend to beat a point to death,
but what took me by surprise was the reference to being patronizing.
If it was that little joke about taking too much Xanax I only meant it to mean that anyone
who thought I was brilliant had to be over medicated.
If that's what upset you I apologize.
If it was something else ... please tell me.
Otherwise ... I've reread everything I said and for the life of me ... I don't see it.

Leaving all that aside ... your story was riveting ... and familiar.
You and I have talked before.
I hope we talk a lot more because I'd like to know a lot more.
As for support and understanding ... that's not a one way street.
We walk up and down it together.
Experience is a brutal teacher.

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