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#443580 - 08/06/13 11:38 PM very unsure of myself
Sterling Offline

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 2153
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba,Canada
I am attracted to men. Does this mean i am gay?
I know nobody can answer that.
I dont feel the same attraction to women as much as i do to
I dont allow the thought of being attracted to men. My parents' culture or maybe combination of their age and culture.
I dont know who to talk about it. I am sooo afraid of someone
putting a name on me and yelling " FAG FAG".
It is so hard to love me AND more to love a guy.. but i am
scared to touch another guy.

#443584 - 08/07/13 12:03 AM Re: very unsure of myself [Re: Sterling]
JayBro Offline

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 325
Hey Goran!

You know, labels are labels, and the issue with them is that they fulfill a human need to catalogue and label aspects of human nature which do not easily fit into neat divisions. Some men identify as gay, others as bisexual (with varying degrees of attraction to either gender), and some identify as straight men, even if they do feel attracted to men at times and do engage in sexual activities with them. And the idea of the gay vs. bi. vs. straight dichotomy is originally a British-American social construction. Other cultures observe sexuality and types of sexualities much differently. That is why in the medical and mental health community, campaigns and studies aim at "men who have sex with men" to get their point across without having to label men any particular 'sexuality', which would risk missing some based on their self-identified labels.

Point being, follow your attractions and explore your sexuality- but do so in a way that is respectful and comfortable to you. Do not try to spend so much energy and pain in trying to love another man when you are having trouble learning to love and accept yourself. If you take the time to learn to be comfortable with yourself, then working on finding a +1 will make much more sense and be much more meaningful.

I would say the best thing to do would be to talk to a therapist, psychologist, and/or therapist specialising in sexuality issues. As you are on Male Survivor, I am assuming you may also have a history of child sexual abuse which is also an important and very common factor that causes distress over sexuality issues in men. That might be connected to this, and it may also be worth while to find a professional to speak with. Shop around, find someone you feel comfortable with. However, regardless of who it is, any credited, qualified professional would and should never label you something derogatory, or critize you, nor will they "declare" or diagnose your sexual label... that is not up to them.

Men's crisis lines might also be good to find someone anonymous who will listen to you.

Many people struggle with comfortability and expanding to accepting new concepts- such as non-heterosexualities- and attribute it to their up-bringing... but fact is, the vast majority of adults today also grew up in homophobic societies and what we see today in the West is a newer development towards acceptance and inclusivity, thus proving we all have the capacity to change. You also live in a country with some of the most progressive laws towards sexual minorities and with an enormous wealth of resources for Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Trans people and their allies. While discriminatory behaviour is always a threat, that is true for so many people based on gender, age, ethnicity, health, appearance, language, etc.... and anyone of us may be called an insult at any time by anyone- but it is a part of life in a society. You cannot control what someone who's rude, ignorant, dumb, angry, flustered, drunk, inconsiderate etc says, but you can control your reaction to it. And you should also not let a fear of being called a name halt you from living your life.

I wish you the best of luck! Keep us posted.
,,Nun ging es immerzu, weit, weit bis an der Welt Ende."

#443865 - 08/09/13 06:09 PM Re: very unsure of myself [Re: Sterling]
Sterling Offline

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 2153
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba,Canada
hEY jybro n tahnks for your isght adn wisdom meant alot.
i dont knowif this is writing in caps. but i am aboslutley b pissed ofof. i hate computer i i worte an aweomse letter and oiii it si di id disappeared on me andi am going nuts on these things. so i cant thank you enuf.
and any i dont know where to start. my dad.. never cared
no i wanted to say that i envy those who are articulate.
these computer suck! i hate them. o dont know who to save my
material. i hate them soo faucking much.
.. i i dont know who t to take my anger out.
that is not true.
i as i way saying ..i dont like my dad.
his parents confused me they would tell me that his brother and sister-law. were my parents. and i remember his brother would laugh at me.
like right now i feel like he islaughing at me . i hate this computer i cant believe that happens to me.. oi get into a writing and it wouldnt type andi ca ..get all fucked up.
sorry if people have a hard time reading this. i busted the
i letter. i hate computers. i reallly do.
i cant write a letter and then type it doesnt work for me.
i have always been jealous of people who are articulate
..anyway.. for expample when i read i have to look up words
and then i forget the meaning and have to reopen over and over
and like right now i can see my dadès brother laughing at me.
This writing is ..aweful when all messes up. I wrote an
awesome letter and then it i couldnt fix it.
i ..get pissed off easy.
My dad ..he left me there. at his parents place.
And his sister in law would do things..l she scared me so
i wouldnt look at my mom.
I hated them. And i was always confused with my sexual
identity. my dad didnt care. He left me there and
billie dad laughed and laughed. I wanted to go but every
time i wanted to leave they would tell me if you go tell anyone
we will kill you. I was scared and my dad s parents always
would tell me these are your parents.
I hate this . And i never knew how to be.. my self.
I didnt know and billie could be gay. I wasnt allowed
to be a boy. And so this messed me up.
My mom couldnt look at me.
And so i am trying to write this out a ..i dont like my self and
i just wish ed i was a boy and i wasnt allowed and billies mum and dad did everything so i wouldnt be able to tell anyone.
I feel i have no way of telling my dad ,,,he didnt want to care
he would tell me dont tell your mum.
so why do i care
i dont like them..i wish i was a kid ..i never got to be a boy.
i am repeating myself because i dont know where the original
letter went and i dont write my letter out .. it isnt the same
i hate my dad. i never wanted to like men. never
they would scare me you have to be like this or else your
mum will know you made this up.
i never liked hanging out with them ... i feel like i dont
even know what i am supposed to be.
i hate this . to have no dad. I have no family and
i dont want one. I just want to slow down but this friggin
computer..i was always said i am dumb.
This computer sucks. I wish i could kill billie and zoran.
I dont ever want to think of them ever again.
I never want to have sex .. that is not true ..i just think
of myself of not wanting. my brain wont think like i
was supposed to. Los Angeles scared me...because they always
said you will kill your mum and dad. nobody gave a
shit . my mum slapped me too much.
I am glad my T told me i should have never been hit.
I dont want to see anyone ever again.
I never want to live like anyone else.
I wish i could kill my dad and his mum. Literally stab them
a million times . i hope billie and zoran and meri are
suicidal. i hope they kill everyone everywhere.
I dont ever want to see my brother . i dont care.
i hate them. i dont want to see any more guys packages.
i dont want them.. and i am not touching a guy.
i hope they die ,,, suffer... i never want them in my memory.
.. I dont care if they die. . What more do i need to
say... i just want them to die. I never want to see
them. my mom can go fuck herself too.
i never want to see me in the mirror.
i hate my penis .. i hate it i hate it i htae i htae i hate it
and i hate all the people who had to hear me.
i never want to hear billies voice or her voice ever again
i hope every one of them is psychologically mental and i hope
they go to prison. i hope i never plan on writing
anything. i hope live and i never lied never!
i never asked for this. i am not gay but i imagine men
liking me for sex so i that is the only way i could get attention
and acceptance was by touching. i hope i start
my thoughts to slow down not kill my self or anyone but i
hope this family suffers and i hope they suffer so much that
nobody can ever want or be anything like them.
this is the worst family in the world.
i hope i can learn to speak serbian to kill my dad and his
family and then when i die. i die and free myself of being
someone else and everyone else s toy , product and present.
never ever do i want to pretend to be something i am not.
neve never never.
sorry if i am not a little girl dad. never do i want to
look at male under wear models. i hate my childhood
i had no dad and if i have to be like my dad or be jealous
of him.. then i rather be whatever i am supposed to be
and not anything like my dad or his dad or brother i hope
they burn alive.. i could write something i hope my brother
never wants to see me ever again.
he has an adorable daughter but not me. i dont want anything
to do with any of them. god bless my neice and her siblings
fuck it i rather zoran have a good life without me.
i dont know what i will read but i hope i can learn for simple
pleasure and just to help myself to listen before asking if
my mind is smarter than the person next to me.
i dont want to hate or others to hate.
fuck governments and others who want me to hate .out of my
mind and if my dad wants me to be something time has done
what has done i cant change for him or him or her .
jebise to all of them.

thanks jaybro and i hated this shit. sorry to all who have
to go thru crap because of garbage people.

upper body hug to everyone


#444517 - 08/16/13 08:46 PM Re: very unsure of myself [Re: Sterling]
JayBro Offline

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 325
HUGS Goran!

You'll be okay!! No one is laughing at you. If you also ever need to talk and get it out, you can contact a local hotline service for men.

Sexual Assault Support and Crisis: Tel: 1-800-909-7007
Crisis Line (24hr) in Manitoba: 1-888-322-3019

Take care Goran!!
,,Nun ging es immerzu, weit, weit bis an der Welt Ende."

#444545 - 08/17/13 11:26 AM Re: very unsure of myself [Re: Sterling]
Magellan Offline

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
Hi Goran,

My apologies, this might run a little long, but I'm sure you'll understand why very quickly!

I want to acknowledge your anger and resentment. Your 2nd post made me feel really sad and empathetic for your situation. It is very clear in your writing that you are so angry and needing to be understood and valued for who you are, and what you're feeling. I also want to encourage you to try and take a look at the source of your anger and shame.

Is it yours, or was it forced on you because of abuse (neglect/emotional/sexual)? I ask, because I see the classic signs of an angry survivor taking on the blame for their own circumstances.

I sense that you blame yourself, and that you're angry at yourself for having the thoughts and feelings that you have. Thoughts and feelings that very may well have been planted into you when you were a child. Thoughts and feelings that don't belong to you, but you internalized and made a part of you, believing it to be you and consequently, your experience of life.

I want to encourage you to think of the thoughts feelings you express (the rage, anger, jealousy, pain, resentment, envy, fear) as a learned habit of thinking/feeling. A learned habit passed down to you from your family. A learned habit that you took on because you were taught nothing else.

I didn't have any parents who could love me either. My mom was remarried for 8 years during my childhood, otherwise, she was a single mother (I, an only child). The very sad and long story is - she should have never had kids. She was a lost child herself.

She gave birth to a baby with 2 disabilities, and proceeded to neglect me as I grew up. As a result, I never learned proper social function, nor was I educated in relationships - NO one talked to me about them. I was a bullied child (glasses and hearing aids) and many kids bullied me.

As a result I grew up hating life. I hated the world. I hated the stupid people. I grew up wondering what the fucking hell was wrong with human beings; that they could hurt and maim each other (myself as a victim). I couldn't believe what I was learning about human history. Oh yeah - for a big part of my childhood - I was a fundamentalist christian. My mom was remarried to an evangelist preacher type.

Anyways, I hated life, I distrusted people, and the universe was a complete farce. I was so very very angry. Why did *I* have to live this shitty life existence, only to realize that there are other people who apparently are living pretty decent lives in this hell. How could it be that others could enjoy themselves while I suffered immeasurably. Oh yes - that's the twist of hell. You live in your own hell in this reality we share with others only to discovers, it really is your OWN hell - no one else is experiencing it but you.

I think this last sentence is rather important for me as I write it. My mindset was very angry and very hostile and very unhappy. I had every right to be so angry, because I was unloved and I was bullied.

And yeah. I started becoming aware of my sexual attraction to other guys when puberty started. I thought God cursed me and was punishing me. All the torment and loneliness, and now I was being made to be attracted to boys!

I hated life and I hated myself. I had many reasons to:
1. I was born with multiple disabilities
2. I wore glasses and hearing aids
3. I was bullied by many other kids in my school
4. My mom was incapable of loving me
5. I received absolutely no social training from my mom/parents
6. Mom was a narcissist who loved religious men
7. She married an evangelist type preacher; and their religion took us to southern baptist churches - the church preaching hellfire and damnation and brimstone and lake of fire burning for people who don't believe. I bought into it hook line and sinker.

What was the point of my pointing out those 7 things above? Because that is the list I have which gives me permission to be very angry at life, at my disabilities, at my mom, at society, at God, and angry for simply being born.

I'm 41 now. I spent a long long time being angry. But not everything was lost...

I made a decision when I was 18 that I didn't want to live in total fear of my sexuality. The rest of my life was so fucked up and so dysfunctional, that I couldn't connect to anyone else at all. I remember having the thought in my head "I'll be damned if I can't enjoy SOMETHING in my fucking retarded life!".

I made the decision that I had nothing to lose by choosing to accept my sexual attractions (I really had nothing else). I was deeply ashamed of them, and humiliated that I had turned out so perverted and "wrong". Why was I forced to live such a profoundly different life than most of everyone else? God, I was so angry and jealous of others.

So this decision was an act of rebellion. Rebellion against the status quo (my totally fucked up life), against society (in the 80's in the USA - coming out of the closet was still very risky).

So I rebelled. I rebelled by accepting this sexual perversion, because, dammit, I was going to try and enjoy SOMETHING in this hell life. So I proceeded to work on accepting my attractions to guys. And even went so far as to start trying to meet some.

23 years later, after I started coming out, and after I started accepting my sexual attractions, and practice safe sex / safe behavior, I have to say that it was one of the best decisions of my life. By accepting my sexuality, it opened a window. It was the first of a series of open windows I've had to climb through to get to where I am today.

In the past 3 years I've made the decision to learn how to love myself, to learn to forgive, to learn how to accept my disabilities, to learn how to let go of my anger, to learn how to appreciate what I do have, to learn how to not be jealous of other people - essentially, to unlearn all the shitty things my mom/parents and society taught me. They all taught me that I was unlovable and that I was worthless and ugly.

They were wrong. And I'm discovering that now because of a decision I made 23 years ago to start accepting something about myself - my sexuality. I just gave up judging myself and hating myself for liking other guys.

It helped that I met someone else who was out of the closet and apparently totally accepting and loving of his sexuality. I was jealous that he had the opportunities he was given because he lived so fearlessly. He was having sex and having relationships with people he was attracted to! I was very jealous of him! I wanted the opportunities he was having, that I was denying myself because of my own self judgments.

So I stepped away from self judgment by accepting my sexuality. And 23 years later, that was the first of many steps in my personally long journey of recovery. And most of those steps consisted of doing the same thing as the 1st step - accepting something about myself.

They're the hardest, and yet the simplest lessons of life. And it is our task as survivors to really know them if we are to make a good life for ourselves. Those lessons are - love yourself, and do not judge (yourself OR others). Accept yourself as you are and others as they are. Those are the keys to creating a life worth living.

I'm sorry (again) this turned out so long. It comes directly from my heart, Goran. I read your post about your shame and fear of being sexually attracted to other guys. I also understand the resentment and anger you have. I wrote all that out because I really want you to see into my heart - I've shared your feelings and your point of view. I totally get it. I also wanted to share with you how you can release yourself from that prison by accepting yourself (at least your attractions) and explore (healthily) as JayBro recommended. I recommend the same.

You are not at fault for the feelings you have. And you are not to blame for how your life is right now. Your parents/family are/were responsible. I hope that you can begin to see that you can set yourself free by learning how to accept yourself. Start with something. But make it a meaningful acceptance. My personal suggestion would be to start with accepting your sexuality and sexual attractions. Be healthy about it. Respect yourself and others, but accept your feelings.

I suggest this because we now live in a world where it is safe (you're in Canada, I'm in the USA) to be openly gay. We are free to marry the people we love. Socially, it is becoming rapidly acceptable (more than 50% majority in the US as of this past year!) to be gay/bi/queer. Society is growing up, finally. Our forefathers were wrong to be so judgmental about sexuality. Our parents were wrong to be judgmental of us. Many people suffered for the judgment.

Now that, socially, the judgment is disappearing all around us, it should be far more easy for you to accept it personally, than it was for me to accept it personally (when society still found homosexuality repugnant).

Goran - if you're still reading, then I'm very very happy. I wrote all of this for you, with you in my mind. I wrote all this because I really hope that you know that I get you. I know your anger and resentments (I've had them), and I understand it. I also want you to know that you can be released from all of it, and you can learn how to enjoy life and love and be loved.

With much Fraternal love - we're survivors,



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