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#44169 - 06/26/03 03:07 PM Re: Trapped
Marc Offline

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 256
Loc: Tucson, AZ

Are you through? Are you pissed enough yet to do something about it? No offense to Tennessee but... I think we've heard a TON of Tennessee jokes on how backward it is in our lives (beaten only by W VA and LA).

Unfortunately (and I know it ain't fair!), YOU my friend are one of the few people that are going to have too drag your state kicking and screaming into the new millenia.

Personally I find your states laws and treatment of sex and sex offences as abhorrent as the Catholic Church's. The only 'good' (?) thing about it is it really isn't limited to just men there. Seems most people are treated as second class citizens regardless of sex or age.

For example...

Tennessee -- Age of Consent

But hey that's just me.

Though I do have a friend here in SF who has lived in Knoxville and he agrees with you.

I think that you have been treated like shit. I think that you have been treated like shit because you are a man (Sucks don't it?). This is a lesson in real morality for us all. Are you going to let that cycle continue? I'm sorry that in order to receive legitamate, adequate care you have to work doubly, possibly triply as hard as anyone else. But you aren't alone. And maybe, just maybe, this will make your survival that much more precious to you and to the other boys/men being victimized a second time in the state of Tennessee.

Hey, it's not like you can't take the fight to your state capital. And I'll put my money where my mouth is. If I can help in anyway in your fight, just ask!

Start your own Male Survivors group. Damnit man! You KNOW there are other men out there as hurt and as pissed as you are. Mobilize 'em!

Get your support from the people here. But you'll have to do the work there. We won't have the same effect.

Hang in there buddy. Maybe it's why you have survived. \:\)

#44170 - 06/26/03 04:39 PM Re: Trapped
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA

With all due respect, I'd like to offer a couple

of questions that I have found helpful to

ask of myself.

When I asked these of myself and tried to get

honest about the answers, I began to


And then "they", "the world", "the State" began

to change. Me first, then them. Not vice-versa.

Two question that I ask myself (in sequence, must

ask both);

Why do I continue to stay in an abusive


what is my payoff, what am I getting out of it?

Question two:

What can I do to get the hell out of the


situation (or state) that I am in, and am I

willing to do those things, regardless of how

hard they may appear?

Ok, Ok, that's really more than two questions, but

I'm trying to appear more concise than I am.

Tom, my heart is with you, man. I'm from the

granddaddy of all dysfunctional states, Texas.

I've been illegal here for my whole life.

If you're sick of being there, why don't you

fucking leave?

I know, lots of reasons why it appears easy to

stay, many more reasons why it appears so

uncertain to leave.

Take care, my brother. Hope none of this is too

harsh or in any way offensive.

If so, I apologize and ask your pardon.

I want you to

feel better, to get better.

How about you?

With respect and best wishes,

Your fellow survivor,

"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

#44171 - 06/26/03 09:27 PM Re: Trapped
Sans Logos Offline

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5796
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...

I sure am sorry about your anger, but I just have to ask as nicely as possible: Why the hell are you barking at us? We are not the ones standing in the way of you getting what you need. And we did not initiate the course of events that brought you to the same place we are.

I truly hope you find peace you need; I linger at the edge of the same flavor of rage as you seem to be indulging, I'm just too scared to let myself go there.

It makes me feel badly that you are feeling so unsupported, but what more can be done than to just be here; at least here, you're not in Nashville anymore?? At least here a house won't fall on you. Hell there is no yellow brick road out of this place leading to some emerald city, but we're not the guy behind the curtain.

Sorry, bad metaphors, well


Ron Schulz, MSPC, NCC

#44172 - 06/26/03 10:08 PM Re: Trapped
godsrabbit Offline

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 98
i have to confess, sometimes it is less about the availability of support than our attitudes toward what is available...

despite immense support, i fought therapy tool and nail for a very long time (and still fight it in my own way)...

i like laura davis' book and i have no problem whatsoever making the necessary pronoun changes in it...and if something in it does not apply to me (which much of it does not), then i just move to the next section...

i do not expect the world to be tailored to my needs...if it were, i would have never been abused in the first place...

i am very grateful for the availability of what is out is not perfect, but then nothing is...and it continues to improve and that is what matters...

#44173 - 06/26/03 11:39 PM Re: Trapped
Tom S. Offline

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Nashville, Tn
I still don't see anyone write that there could even be the remotest possibility that the counseling profession, and not just me, not the state, not the laws, not the pedophiles, not the street walkers or even God himself; but the mental health profession has dropped the ball and could potentially have an internal problem.
Where is the first person concerned enough to be willing to speak to me without wanting money up front? What do you think the legislature is going to do anyway? All the laws in the world are not going to make anybody give a shit.
I don't know the times I have offered to start a group, on anybody elses terms, and do ALL the work myself beforehand for the facilitator. How many times??
The latest in a series of counselors was PhD level and did have an understanding of the importance of breaking silence and identifying in a group and actually helped in the very one I described above that was 50 mi away during his training. But eventually he only found only frustration as well, and finally shifted his focus on getting paid. He even went as far as trying to involve Vanderbilt to recognize the colossal need, and offered to facilitate a group for FREE, and I would do whatever with my liscense as an RN to help.
Leave? What the hell do you think? I don't know about you, but I have going on 30 years vested in being a property owner and a landlord here, and I do still have a wife with a career and son still in school. Yeah, I'd love to leave someday, and may very well when I can no longer manage this, but in the mean time I aint about to give it away.
I think a change of websites is in order here, because I continue to become more hostile by the day. I suppose you figure if they refuse to look up to you and see your way, you can always piss them off long enough until they leave.
I have gotten what little I have by maintianing control and making sensible choices because I knew there were consequences, like HIV and JAIL. So I'm going to stay in control now, and realize you folk are NOT the ones who need to be advising me.
I believe in another budget cycle or possibly two, the whole mental health theraputic profession will resolve it's problems of egotism and overpayment all on it's own.
I think the problem at this monment in time is if I don't stop letting a bunch of over educated T's stop feeding their personal frustrations off me, then it won't be very long until I actually become the raging asshole they want to dx me as.
I saw a bumper sticker not long ago that I feel relates oh too well right now.

Now for my quote one more time; "In this time of economic uncertainty, it's all to easy to see who is dedicated to providing health care, and who is chasing bucks."

May God Bless each of you; Tom S.

' None are so enslaved as those falsely led to believe they are actually free '

#44174 - 06/27/03 12:35 AM Re: Trapped
godsrabbit Offline

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 98

clearly you are very angry, and i have not been here long enough to understand the full extent of why... you are frustrated with a system which is certainly not perfect and which i think we all share a frustration with...i personally do not rely on therapy alone...i have a support group of friends and i have my Church...these things sustain me...i feel very fortunate for that...perhaps you need support other than a "system" which you feel victimizes you...perhaps you need to look around and consider where else you can effectively get support...
Originally posted by Tom S.:
I still don't see anyone write that there could even be the remotest possibility that the counseling profession...has dropped the ball and could potentially have an internal problem.
i do not see where anybody is saying that may not be a possibility...
Originally posted by Tom S.:
Where is the first person concerned enough to be willing to speak to me without wanting money up front? why do you assume it must be person to person to get someone to help you?
Originally posted by Tom S.:
I think a change of websites is in order here, because I continue to become more hostile by the day. I suppose you figure if they refuse to look up to you and see your way, you can always piss them off long enough until they leave.
i am not sure what it is you are looking for that you are not getting, tom? you disapprove/disagree with therapy...okay...there are other one is cramming therapy down your throat...not that i have seen...
Originally posted by Tom S.:
So I'm going to stay in control now, and realize you folk are NOT the ones who need to be advising me.
no, not if it is not you have to be here to be advised or is this not just a place of mutual support? (mutual being the operative word)...
Originally posted by Tom S.:
May God Bless each of you; Tom S.
God bless you too tom, i continue to pray for you...i hope you will stay because i think you are someone i can learn from...


~ rabbit

#44175 - 06/27/03 03:11 AM Re: Trapped
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada

I think a change of websites is in order here, because I continue to become more hostile by the day.
What makes you think that you have to leave Tom. If we all left because someone pissed us off there would be no one here. That is human nature. Maybe you are just being a bit to harsh on yourself. You feel the way you do and you have just cause in my opinion. You also have a lot of good stuff in your posts. Gosh Tom we are all unique and diverse. If it were not so we would all go completely bonkers. It would be like the town of Stepford (remember stepford wives).

It is ok to get pissed. It helps relieve pressure and it is a whole lot safer doing it here than, say, at work.

You told me this is your busy time and I appreciate that but dont leave because nobody seems to see it as you do.

Rabbit has made some excellent posts.

And Tom you do know what is important to you and that it is you and your family. We all feel that way. Some of us do not have the internal guts if you like that you have. I would say that the younger men here are particularly vulnerable, mainly because it is so fresh in their minds.

Speaking for myself I try not to get too upset about anything anymore. In 15 minutes or hours it wont matter a damn anyway.

Maybe the whole damned system we have is inappropriate. I dont know. But I continue to do what I can to improve both my life, my family's life and the lives of those I touch here.

You may not realize it but you do too.

P.S. Have a great day and good weekend.

Your brother



#44176 - 06/27/03 03:23 AM Re: Trapped
Leosha Offline

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
Yes, I read how you say it, and it makes so much sense at me. I think with all that people say at me these two weeks since I am forced at 'dealing' with this, I think it does overwhelm, that it is a life thing, no quick fix to it. I just think I can hide those thoughts away forever, but then with what make me start feel it again, I see I can not, because once this starts, there is no rest of it, I can not escape it in my head. I too have felt the "it is not fair" since this makes me think more of it. But I do know that I have recieved some good of the "not fair" part of life. Sometimes I feel it is not fair that I can 'work' as athlete, and make money for my family by doing something I enjoy so much. It seems not fair, when many people have no jobs, many people have to work at jobs they hate. So I know that sometimes, the 'not fair' works to help me also. Is that fair? I do not know, I am confusing myself with what I say! I just wish to give support at you, and to hope that even if this is a life thing, we are never full done of it, that we do get at a time when it is not so big of us. I will wish you peace in mind.

Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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