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#438442 - 06/17/13 02:29 PM Re: Premature Childhood Sexuality [Re: Magellan]
Magellan Offline

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 1598
Loc: California
THanks for your responses guys.

Mornings like these when I wake up feeling lonely (again), day after day after day, where it doesn't end, and there seems no hope of ever connecting with another human being.

I wonder - what for?

It's hard to not become incredibly envious of those who have had the opportunities they've had with friendships and romance. I wonder how it is that people as damaged as myself wind up getting married or experiencing romance.

Romance is an alien concept to me.

Sometimes I wonder if I've been cursed, and will be cursed until I die.

Why me? Why us? Why won't the suffering isolation and loneliness stop?


#438443 - 06/17/13 02:48 PM Re: Premature Childhood Sexuality [Re: Magellan]
peroperic2009 Offline

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3864
Loc: South-East Europe
Isolation is one of the biggest challenges for survivors of abuse.
Even if I would try to reach to someone, feelings of fragility and inadequacy would emerged parallel with becoming closer.
Until terrible feelings of isolation would show in full light and I would need to break and move...
Don't know for other people but from my perspective sometimes there were objective obstacles, sometimes I was hypersensitive and sometimes all that together lead to being physically alone.
In any case it is always complex dynamics among people without easy rules left so there are no simple answers how to reach to other person...
My story

#438444 - 06/17/13 02:55 PM Re: Premature Childhood Sexuality [Re: Magellan]
Magellan Offline

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 1598
Loc: California
Thanks pero - yes - I have all of what you described.

And I still am cursed with sexualization. The *only* times I feel like drawing closer to someone else is when I'm sexually attracted to them. Else wise, its as you described it - inadequacy, lack of experience, shame, and embarrasment.

I work and slave at trying to "recover" and all the rest of it - but nothing changes with regards to this fucked up dysfunction.

I sometimes feel like the 12 steps lied to me - they say if I work all the steps, I will have a spiritual awakening, and the goals I set out to strive for will start showing themselves in my life.

Not so. All I've gotten is a ton of awareness, and I've taken responsibility for my own god damned feelngs, and making sure I don't hurt anyone else - but all I'm left with is the rotten loneliness inside my own head and heart wondering "what the fuck!?"

I'm incredibly envious of Survivors who have found someone who proclaimed those words "I love you" and "I want to spend the rest of my life with you" and "you're important to me". I've never heard those words spoken to me. I feel so alienated.

Sometimes I think this planet is hell.

#438449 - 06/17/13 04:18 PM Re: Premature Childhood Sexuality [Re: Magellan]
Magellan Offline

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 1598
Loc: California
A horribly confusing thought...

What if I have simply been acting out on 'ssa', and I am really not gay after all? What if this is the only 'love' I've ever known due to severe neglect? What if my identity as being genuinely attracted to guys is false?

I am aware of the debate over ssa vs. being gay. I don't come to conclusions about anyone else's take and experience. But I did accept my attractions, and now wonder if I have been acting out and repeating the only behaviors I've ever known to feel close to another.

#438471 - 06/17/13 07:37 PM Re: Premature Childhood Sexuality [Re: Magellan]
Shyshark Offline

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 973
Loc: Canada
So many pertinent comments here ...
and honesty.

I'll be honest too and share more ... perhaps it'll help those of you who despair of ever finding a meaningful relationship.
I hesitate to tell you this because it's hardly encouraging ...
and something I've told only a very select few ...
because ... in many ways it sounds like self aggrandizement.

It's not.
It's simply been my life.

Being in love ... loving ... caring about someone deeply ...
is not all it's cracked up to be.
I think for CSA ... also ASA ... my story may not be as unique as it sounds.
It all came at a very high price.

My first 6 years were spent in a "Waltons" like atmosphere.
Then we moved and the abuse turned into a different kind.
It was merciless.
I was small and ugly and deliberately dumbed myself down.
There was only so much they could torture me with if I was stupid. It allowed me to lay low.
Being smart ... which I am ... would have only been fodder to them.

I survived by chanting 2 mantras ... day after day after day.

"Hang on ... this will end ... you will get away and make a life for yourself."
"I will never be like them ... I pledge to never hurt anyone on purpose."

I did.
I never have.

I suppressed my SSA with an iron fist.
It was one of their favourite taunts ... and I was determined not to be.

I was.
I am.

A cliche I know ... but true.
The first time our eyes met I fell in love with her.
She was very beautiful (WAY out of my league!) but didn't know it
and very very intelligent ...
and self assured ... but not really
but in her eyes was the truth.
and in her eyes I saw the truth ...
In my eyes ... she saw ME
and fell in love with me too.
She WANTED me ... a circumstance that would later become pivotal to my life.
We complimented and completed each other.
I was a virgin (21 yrs old) ... she was not at all (22 yrs old)

We were married soon after and were together for 7 years ...
Sex was difficult for me ...
I detached myself from it and went through the motions ...
I almost always faked an orgasm.
Sex was infrequent.
She was happy with it ... God knows why ... and later when I admitted I had never
slept with a woman before her (or a man for that matter)
she was shocked and asked where I had learned to do all that stuff.
All that stuff ??? ..I had NO idea what she was talking about.
To me ... I was the worst lover in existence!

There was touchy-feely stuff at the YMCA ... which I somehow blocked from my reality,
but I did not accept it as being gay.
At that time I was completely unaware of my CSA ...
but a little voice inside rationalized that 'it wasn't my fault'

After 5 years our careers led us apart ... she in one city and I in another.
We both were with an airline so commuting was like taking a cab across town ...
but for 6 days a week I was alone in my city ... and for 4 in hers.
It started.
I was alone and lonely like before.
I went to a gay bathhouse ... you have no idea how hard, but irresistible that was ...
and once on that path there was no turning back.
I started using my middle name as a means of identity protection ...
how little I knew of the significance of that act.
For 2 years I lived a Jekyll/Hyde existence.
When Ray ... Shawn did not exist.
When Shawn ... Ray did not exist.
I continued sleeping with my wife when I had to ...
but ...
I quickly caught an STD ... crabs.
In fear I never touched her again.
Obviously things between us became confusing for her, but I couldn't stop.
If anything it got worse and worse.
Of course I didn't realize it at the time ... I just thought I was being cautious about not being
identified so I rarely slept with the same guy more than a few times.
But that wasn't it at all.

I was hooked.
I was getting my fix!
I was desired ... I was pursued ... I was caught ...
I was getting what I wanted ...

I'm sorry ... this is getting long I know ... but I have to finish.

Her confidence in herself was rapidly deteriorating ...
She was going down the toilet fast.
She had had a minor drinking problem when I met her which became worse because of her previous career
which she loved ... but she had a tyrant/sweety boss that asked too much of her and she was constantly stressed to the max ...
She went to AA for help ... and I made a decision on her behalf.
I made her quit her job.
Almost immediately she was accepted as a flight attendant with my airline..
(she was posted in a different base after training ... which is how we ended up in 2 different cities).
I put in for a transfer ... that never happened.
Ultimately ... it was for the best.

Back to the point.
She started drinking again.
It was the catalyst that forced me to tell her I was gay.

I was convinced that my life as I knew it was over ... ruined
and I was fucking hell not going to ruin hers!
She had to know ... she had to see that it wasn't her fault ...
it was mine.

It was the second most terrifying ordeal of my life.

I was convinced that now the truth was out I would lose everything.
My family ... my job ... what shreds of dignity I had left ...
and her.
My everything.

It didn't turn out that way ... much to the contrary.

She wanted to stay together.
"You do whatever you have to do ... I won't ever ask ... and don't tell me."

You'd think that would get me off the hook ... solve everything.
It didn't.
I hadn't been sleeping well for 2 years ... now I slept barely at all.
I couldn't do it.
I remember every word I said to her ...

"You deserve the chance to live the life you should have ... and I deserve not to spend my life in guilt."

I got a transfer to a different city ... but our love for each other only grew stronger.
There were no more lies.
She stayed by my side for another 7 years ...
then she married a great guy she had been seeing for several years ... I was ecstatic for her ...
but ...
He was deeply threatened by our closeness ... and I didn't blame him one little bit.
She and I tried to tone it down ... but it was very hard ... we were still in constant contact with each other.
Long distance phone calls had gotten out of control very early and so we had devised a system ...
If we were thinking of each other we would let the phone ring once ... if we were both home we would reply with one ring.
I'm not kidding you ... it wasn't unusual for us to do that 5 or 6 or more times a day.
I went into a relationship with a man from work lasting 7 years.
If he would be home and I wasn't he would call back with 2 rings.
They often did the 2 ring thing with each other ...
it just meant ... "I'm thinking about you."

I'm not ashamed to tell you that I've been crying for 20 minutes now.

It sounds idealistic ... a life for 3 people made in heaven.
We went to stay with her and she came to stay with us ...
the 3 of us took 1 vacation a year together.
All 3 of us got sick to death of flying vacations so we started driving once a year to Palm Springs.
Chris and I would stay 7 to 10 days ... and she would drive with us one way and fly the other...
staying for only 3 or 4 days.
We always had a room with 2 beds.
It was a magical time for us.

Point of interest ... when the 3 of us were together at each others homes ... or in Palm Springs ...
She and I would share a bed and Chris would sleep in the other one or the guest room when at home.
He was an incredibly loving man who realized it was just another way for us to be close to each other.
(no hanky-panky ... just sleeping cuddled up against each other.)

I hope I haven't lost you.

When she got remarried and we had toned everything down a lot her husband still had big problems with
our relationship. He never said anything bad about me ... we got along wonderfully too ...
but ...

She wanted to stay in touch on the sly.
It would have been VERY easy to do.
It's what I would have loved too ...
but ...

I had to make another devastating decision ... for us both.
We met for what would be the last time.
I told her we had to stop ... I wasn't going to be 'the other man' ...
and I just couldn't bear the thought that I might be the reason her marriage could end up in trouble.
We were in the empty bar at the airport ...
we sat in silence for what seemed like eons ... not daring to look at each other.
I got up ... and went to leave.
I had to pass her to get out and as I did ...
I couldn't stop myself ... I stopped beside her chair ...
she didn't look up ... I didn't look down
I said "I love you."
and walked calmly out ...
and ran for the men's room and fell apart.

When I finally got control of myself I washed my face ...
and left the men's room ...

as I did ...

She came out of the ladies's room.

We gazed into each other's red and swollen eyes ... and said nothing.

It's me who had to do it ...
I turned away ..
and walked away.

That was the last time I ever saw her.

I still cry for her ...

It's been 20 years now.

You may think I'm a fool ...

But I have a point.

In Posts and Poems this is what I refer to as ...

"Gifts given" ... and ... "Gifts lost"

I think I'll leave it there and not into the men I shared years of my life with.
They were wonderful too ...
but again ...
Gifts given ... and ... gifts lost.

It bears noting ...

With all 4 of them ... there were arguments of course ...
but never a voice raised in anger
never an unkind word.

I fulfilled the promise I made to myself.

I've hurt a lot of people ... left a lot of wreckage behind me ...
but I was never mean ...
never acted with malice ...
never even raised my voice in anger ...
I've never done anything deliberately to hurt another ...
especially not the ones I loved.

I did not become 'them'

Read all this ... or not ...
I feel better having written it ...
no apologies.
Experience is a brutal teacher.

#438527 - 06/18/13 06:44 AM Re: Premature Childhood Sexuality [Re: Magellan]
Jacob S Offline

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 699
Loc: where the shadows lie
wow. Shyshark. You are strong for what you did. and you are brave for sharing. way to go.

I want to give you a standing ovation.
Nothing there. It subsumed me. Black hole in time and space.

And yet.

It seemed like what I was made for.

to be used.

most natural thing in the world.

#438550 - 06/18/13 02:12 PM Re: Premature Childhood Sexuality [Re: Magellan]
Anthony39 Offline

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada
I have to say that it is so familiar also to me. Any new friendship I have with a guy I automatically think that sex will be expected. I know it's not true but like a reflex I get in that mode.
Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale

#438564 - 06/18/13 06:13 PM Re: Premature Childhood Sexuality [Re: Magellan]
Shyshark Offline

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 973
Loc: Canada
Thank you Jacob ...

A few guys here know me and know how difficult it is for me to post.
I'm here a lot ... read a lot ...
and I write a lot ...
Replies and original posts.
I'd say barely 10 ... 15 percent of it makes it to the 'submit' button.
Every time I do submit I immediately regret doing it ...
and fret over it a lot.
For some reason I feel more free in 'poems' ...
but they often include some kind of apology too.

That's at the heart of the 'no apologies' ...
I didn't regret what I put down in black and white ... forever.
That's just how it was.

I appreciate your appreciation Jacob.
Experience is a brutal teacher.

#438565 - 06/18/13 06:26 PM Re: Premature Childhood Sexuality [Re: Magellan]
Shyshark Offline

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 973
Loc: Canada
Hi Magellan ...

I did have the intention originally of directly addressing a few of the things
you mentioned ...
but somehow got sidetracked onto 'Me,the Miniseries'.
Sorry about that.
It did however allow for more guys to contribute and so I'd like to make
more specific comments on the subject at hand.

I am ... as you can tell ... a bit of a wind bag.
Brevity is not my strong point ... and I've run out of time.

I will be back ...
to bore you all to tears again.


Experience is a brutal teacher.

#438567 - 06/18/13 07:30 PM Re: Premature Childhood Sexuality [Re: Magellan]
ThisMan Offline

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 778
Loc: upper south
Magellan, the loneliness is hard to deal with. I remain lonely in my current life because I choose. I just can't take anymore hurt- not thru abuse and assault or thru death. Not right now.

And for you, Sharky, I can only say thank you. And "dang you" in a friendly way! I had planned on a very light-hearted day with NO tears!!

I was 21. It was love at first sight. She completed me, loved me, encouraged me. Just as you said. And I had only the experience of CSA. Married at 22. For 23 1/2 yrs, almost, we were. And I still love her and think of her daily. And today... almost a decade later... I am chased, I am wanted, but I will not permit anyone to love me. I enjoy their company a few times, and when it becomes apparent they are developing feelings, I am gone. I have had in that decade one relationship. I loved him. And this part is hard. He was abusive. He found all my vulnerabilities and attacked them one by one, including the CSA...everything that I said had hurt me in the past lives, he would eventually repeat... he is the man who committed the ASA to my body.

Regardless, I am better, with better boundaries and I appreciate what both of you say. I understand the loneliness- mine brought on by fear. And I understand the "true love" of your life and the realization of being gay- have been there. TY both for sharing so openly.

Edited by ThisMan (06/18/13 09:34 PM)
Edit Reason: too much exposure...
For now we see through a glass, darkly.

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