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#439243 - 06/26/13 03:45 AM Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 766
Deleted - thanks for the support, guys. I miss these kind of dynamics on MS.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 10:29 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.
_________________________
Husky

"Only the solitary seek the truth, and they break with all those who don't love it sufficiently." - Pasternak

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#439245 - 06/26/13 04:23 AM Re: Moral Decay and Keeping in Touch with Perp. [Re: concerned_husky]
newground Offline

Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 1091
Loc: michigan
hey husky
first of all man ... just breathe long cleansing breaths. you have made it to where you are and you can make it man. lying is such a common coping mechanism not to take away from the issue I understand your feeling lost in that. still we as survivors have such a hard time with our identity anyway. it will take some hard work to break that habit and unfortunately some feelings maybe hurt. but you are a MAN now not the little boy who was the victim. you have the authority and the ability to say no/yes whatever the situation calls for. it is not impossible to do that without fracturing the relationship. though twisted she can learn to accept your boundaries. It will probably be tough man but you can make it.
Jeff
_________________________
Either I will find a way, or I will make one.
Philip Sidney

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#439247 - 06/26/13 07:51 AM Re: Moral Decay and Keeping in Touch with Perp. [Re: concerned_husky]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 927
Perps have no privileges. I don't think it even counts as a lie if you lie to them because they aren't entitled to your true self. If what you need from your mother is money, then mime your kabuki dance to make her pay up like a good mark and deny her your true self that she hurt so badly.

Just try to keep the lying "situational" - don't let it become a way of life.
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of Heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#439256 - 06/26/13 10:07 AM Re: Moral Decay and Keeping in Touch with Perp. [Re: concerned_husky]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/27/14 04:52 PM)

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#439262 - 06/26/13 11:45 AM Re: Moral Decay and Keeping in Touch with Perp. [Re: concerned_husky]
Daniel_forgotten Offline


Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 479
Husky,

I've cut off communication with them since last year. I would do and agree to whatever they said. I would lie to myself in order to protect them. I cared for them more than I cared for myself. It happened in just one minute. The minute I decided to break free and run away from them, from my family, from my country.

To this day I feel guilty for disobeying, for make them worry. I don't reply to emails, I don't accept their economical support anymore although I did before. I needed it badly before. Sometimes I feel guilty about that too, but you know, as the tittle of this website says, we were surviving. Whatever it takes to survive. I'm sure things will improve for you and someday you will be free from them, whether that means seeing them without guilt or not seeing them at all.

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#439293 - 06/26/13 06:31 PM Re: Moral Decay and Keeping in Touch with Perp. [Re: concerned_husky]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 766
.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 10:25 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.
_________________________
Husky

"Only the solitary seek the truth, and they break with all those who don't love it sufficiently." - Pasternak

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#439299 - 06/26/13 07:03 PM Re: Moral Decay and Keeping in Touch with Perp. [Re: concerned_husky]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 489
Loc: NY
Husky:

Your post is one of those that I will remember. The question of moral decay seems to be at the heart of so many conversations about the confusing nature of relationships that have become destructively out of balance in a family. Many times it seemed like some kind of moral decay had to be behind the life my parents created for the family they were raising. In the end, it was simply a choice they made. For my own reasons, I am not making those choices today.

One of my big regrets is that my standards had to be lowered when they didn't need to. Because I could not face what had actually happened, I assumed that some moral decay was necessary in life and this led me into getting involved with kinds of people who ultimately I could not respect. It has taken me a long time to see where I picked up the attitudes that led me to do this.

Your questioning here about the moral nature of a relationship to oneself and others seems to be a form of self-love. To ask the question of what standards you want to live by is a way to feel and understand yourself.

When misperceptions build up between two people, they can in their own way constitute a lie. When we feel misunderstood and unable to show who we truly are, it can seem impossible to rid oneself of the habitual experience of feeling like life is a lie around a certain person. And when that person is our mother, it can seem not only impossible but wrong to try and undo the lie.

In order to make relationships clear by improving boundaries, lying is sometimes necessary. This may be because boundaries have been crossed for so long that the feeling of living the lie is ingrained. With new space within a relationship, it can become possible to perceive the pattern of how things got messed up in the first place. This is very valuable information. It may help reveal unconscious dynamics that led to the chronic forms of abuse that you have described. In this way, choosing to lie with the intention of undoing bigger lies seems like a stronger moral choice.

I have had to make this choice with both parents at times. When things improved later on, I was able to slowly establish greater trust and let the smaller lies fade into the past. Integrity is ultimately cultivated by you and only you, not by a parent who attempts to convince you that you are someone only they want to see.

Although financial help can seem like an invitation to revert to old patterns, this may not necessarily be true. My mother (and perp) has been willing to pay for some of my therapy. Although we haven't explicitly talked about the connection of my pain to any mistakes on her part, the journey to some kind of healing for both of us has been understood.

Best of luck with your visit and your new direction.

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#439395 - 06/27/13 07:37 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: focusedbody]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 766
.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 10:25 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.
_________________________
Husky

"Only the solitary seek the truth, and they break with all those who don't love it sufficiently." - Pasternak

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#440042 - 07/04/13 10:12 AM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 766
.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 10:26 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.
_________________________
Husky

"Only the solitary seek the truth, and they break with all those who don't love it sufficiently." - Pasternak

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#440044 - 07/04/13 10:35 AM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
peroperic2009 Offline

Moderator
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3772
Loc: South-East Europe
Hang on Husky,
I know that is difficult for you at the moment, you are not alone frown
If you'll have some energy left please read this article and try to catch those deep and hurtful feelings whose impacts you are sensing this moment (it is that feeling of mounting pressure inside that drives us to some "problematic" behaviors):
http://www.malesurvivor.org/ArchivedPages/singer2.html

No matter on all difficulties, this is good opportunity to learn more about self and coping mechanism that has developed over the years while your borders were shattered.
In my case such mechanism is always on when some my internal process start running when triggered forcing me to escape from reality.
Keep fighting!

Pero
_________________________
My story

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#440058 - 07/04/13 03:12 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1566
Loc: California
C. Husky,

You're going to be okay. You have brothers here that know and understand your quandary and angst at life. You're safe here.

D

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#440151 - 07/05/13 06:18 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 766
.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 10:27 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.
_________________________
Husky

"Only the solitary seek the truth, and they break with all those who don't love it sufficiently." - Pasternak

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#440174 - 07/05/13 10:42 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
GT13568 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 184
Loc: California, 93451
Hi Husky,

I read your poem "My Story" and I am blown away by it. I can't imagine the horrible things that were done to you. I am also blown away by your eloquence in telling the story. Every line rings true, all of your anger, pain, and confusion comes through, loud and clear. I recognize them all in my life, through your words.

Here again, even under duress, you share in such an open and direct manner. It must be so difficult to spend time with the perpetrator of the crimes against you. I'm very sorry you must do it.

I believe in you. Your words give me insight and strength. I think that to give these things to others, one must have them oneself. I bet you do. Good luck Husky.
_________________________
I won the moment he hurt me, because he poisoned his soul, and I did not poison mine. I did not hurt anyone. He did. He was the perp. He tried to make me into a victim, but I became a survivor. Yes.

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#440207 - 07/06/13 08:56 AM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 766
.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 10:27 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.
_________________________
Husky

"Only the solitary seek the truth, and they break with all those who don't love it sufficiently." - Pasternak

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#440223 - 07/06/13 01:54 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
genedebs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 305
Loc: MO
Hi Husky

The simple fact for me was that I could not confront my parents in a manner which would allow me to live (my confrontation that I wanted to perform was to kill them). I certainly wasn't going to be honest with them.

You have your goals, is being honest with your mother more valuable than achieving your goals? There are strategies to learn to reduce the level of abuse and manipulation that you need to accept. But, learning and developing new strategies in the middle of harassment is absurd.

I am sorry that you need to get drunk to cope, but that is how I coped for 27 years so it may become an unnecessary coping mechanism as it has for me.

The idea that being dishonest is a sign of moral decay, is a very rigid standard.
Honesty without compassion is just another form of abuse.

She is not someone you can be honest with and compassionate. A) she would be too defensive; B) you have little compassion for her.

Sorry you have such limited choices. But, you have goals that are where you investing your life today. I hope reaching your goals is the reward you are looking for

Go with God

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#440227 - 07/06/13 02:26 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/27/14 05:20 PM)

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#440228 - 07/06/13 02:27 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 489
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: concerned_husky
A little update - like the countless previous times I spoke with my mother, I got shitted on for four hours straight today, and am in the process of getting drunk while I write down a list of things she said and am trying to process it all.


Husky: One suggestion--write first, process later. Writing can help you look back at a later point from a safer distance.

Originally Posted By: concerned_husky

The most level-headed thing I can say at the moment is, there is still a lot of work that needs to be done on my character. It feels like I know a lot in my head about 'dealing' but applying it in real-life situations, like meeting your perpetrator who thinks nothing of treating you as an emotional dump for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours on end...especially trying to defend yourself in a second language, is not that easy.


Taking a moment from my own experience, simply being in the same room may not be easy. Try not to focus on what you are doing wrong, but as much as you can, on what is really happening.

Originally Posted By: concerned_husky

I'm probably going to be really embarrassed when I read this tomorrow but screw it.


You may be, but what about other feelings that haven't been able to breathe the light of day? Hope you can give them a chance to be known too.

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#440229 - 07/06/13 02:34 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
BraveFalcon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1231
Loc: The ATL
Originally Posted By: concerned_husky

Every time I talk to her, it's like death has swept over and extinguished the last bit of fire that was burning in my heart. It takes a while to jump-start it again, but how many more times it'll ignite I'm not sure.


Hi Husky. Don't let your mom put that fire out man. Don't let her win. Just keep doing whatever you need to do to get through this and you will come out the other side. Eventually, you'll be free and it will all be worth it.

Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
Perps have no privileges. I don't think it even counts as a lie if you lie to them because they aren't entitled to your true self. If what you need from your mother is money, then mime your kabuki dance to make her pay up like a good mark and deny her your true self that she hurt so badly.

Just try to keep the lying "situational" - don't let it become a way of life.


I completely, 100% agree with this! Like I said, just do what ever it is you need to do to gain your freedom from her. If that involves lying and telling her what she wants to hear so you can continue to get the financial support you need, fine. She used and abused you, why should you not return the favor? As far as I'm concerned, your conscience should be clear. Take care. Peace,

Ken

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#440231 - 07/06/13 03:21 PM . [Re: concerned_husky]
JoeSmith Offline


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 129
.

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#440316 - 07/07/13 08:26 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 766
.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 10:27 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.
_________________________
Husky

"Only the solitary seek the truth, and they break with all those who don't love it sufficiently." - Pasternak

Top
#440322 - 07/07/13 09:19 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
GT13568 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 184
Loc: California, 93451
Yay. A victory for our side. Sounds good, Husky! Congrats.
_________________________
I won the moment he hurt me, because he poisoned his soul, and I did not poison mine. I did not hurt anyone. He did. He was the perp. He tried to make me into a victim, but I became a survivor. Yes.

Top
#440468 - 07/09/13 03:39 PM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 766
.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 10:28 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.
_________________________
Husky

"Only the solitary seek the truth, and they break with all those who don't love it sufficiently." - Pasternak

Top
#440628 - 07/11/13 07:21 AM Re: Moral Decay - Seeing Perp. (Mother) Next Week [Re: concerned_husky]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 489
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: concerned_husky
I'm going to go on a little monologue here, but bear with me. The biggest discovery I've made, I guess, is that talking to her is like talking to a really stupid immature 5-year-old girl.


Husky:

Don't know if you have processed much (or should process much, as per my last message), but thought I'd let you know that your observations resonate with my experience. My mom would occasionally go into little girl mode with me. This was especially enraging.

Originally Posted By: concerned_husky
Obviously. I guess my greatest disadvantage now is that by in large, I understand why she does this, having come from a very abusive childhood herself (though she has by in large idealized her abusive parents - she gets incredibly defensive when I criticize my grandmother for not having given her enough affection and love).


This may be good information. My mother's parents were idealized by many, many people, which made it difficult for her to see them for who they were. Combined with the observation about behaving like a little girl, this draws a picture of someone needing the attention she never got.

However, in the case of behaving like this with her son, the dynamic is of course, problematic. So as important as it is to know something about her, it can be hard to be objective without also dissociating in this situation.

In my case, my mother would take this little girl behavior into a behavioral fugue of fawning. It is difficult for me to endure when I watch her do it with men in general. When she did it with me growing up, it is now coming home to me that the results felt catastrophic. It was universes away from what I needed and also tended to arouse me in ways that were, as you can guess, asphyxiating and disgusting.

Originally Posted By: concerned_husky

I understand, therefore, I...enable? That sounds stupid.


It seems right to point out here that this is her stuff, not yours. You are therefore not enabling, at all.

On the other hand....because what we are talking about is an ongoing sexual dynamic, there is the possibility of cognitive dissonance here. That is, although the mind may perceive the objective reality, the body is experiencing something different. You may "feel" like you are enabling because how can you turn off who you are--a grown and growing man, who is also her son? What are you to do? My best advice--breathe as deeply as you can and give yourself as much room as you need to decompress later.

Originally Posted By: concerned_husky

There is still one little problem - every time she shows me physical affection (holding my hands or touching my arms) I just...uh...let it happen. And I go through a few seconds of wanting to puke and then move away. And she wonders why I'm doing that.


Let her wonder! She's got a lot of ground to cover before she sees who you are.

You are a brave soul. Hope you have a good goodbye.

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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