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#43918 - 08/04/02 05:22 AM Unreal
Broken Offline

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
This is hard for me to consider, but i am starting to wonder none the less. I have heard about ritual abuse and child molesting cults. The fact that this is real escapes most people. They dont know, they dont want to know. They laugh at things like the manchurian canidate and satanic cults. BUt they are real.

What is making me wonder is this strange link i think i have found between it and forced feminiztion fantasies. While i think this can happen on its own, its not very likely. More often i think these fantasies, especially the more violent ones, are a result of abuse, a recreation of trauma. I have seen many different websights on crossdressing, i used to sail through them one after another, trying to understand why i didnt like or accept this about myself. Many report having been forced to dress as a girl at a young age. While this doesnt nescesarily mean it causes crosdressing, there is a link, just as there is a link between the abuse of male children by men and homosexuality. The majority of gay men and crossdressers were not abused. But a higher proportion of those who were turn out to be gay or attracted to womens clothing.

Anyways, the things i noticed about the similiarities to cult abuse is the "programming" used. Often, the stories i read were so graphic, that i do not think that somebody could have these types of cumpulsions without some sort of serious psycholgical problems or trauma. Some of the similiarities include creating "alters", personalities specificly indoctrinated to serve the abusers. Many times i read that they were called by a new feminine name, or the fantasies involved hypnosis. There were also many things like being put in cages, being starved, using blackmail and coersion, slipping hormone pills into drinks, rape in which the subject of the fantasy later comes to believe he deserved or wanted, many examples of pretty much pavlovian conditioning, and being forced to do some of the most vile and degrading things imaginable, ultimately degrading the person to the point where he is sex slave to be used at whim for whatever the abusers desire. I know there is a link between this and abuse by females, as well. There doesnt have to be any conspiracy, this kind of conditioning can be caried out, to a smaller extent, by just one person, but if one can do it then many can do it.

So why am i talking about this? Because i think i have to consider the possibility that something like this may have happened to me. I have too many questions about why i feel the way i do, about the fragments of memories that feel like dreams. I really want to believe this isnt true. I hope its not. But if this is a question i have to ask, im not running away anymore. I have had enough. I have felt like i have been running from something i cant face my whole life, like an invisible shadow. I have to face my mother. I dont know what role she had to play in my pain, but i feel she is reponsible for at least part of what i feel now. I am angry enough at her that if she chooses to deny me when i confront her, that i will not stop myself from hating her. I wont feel sorry for her when she dies, i wont care about the needle in her arm eating away at her soul.

Things are swimming through my head right now. Remembering in 4th grade when i thought that "sucking cock" meant to lick a womans anus. The stupid fucking kids making fun of me, asking me, "Do you suck cock?" "Yeah!" I was almost proud, like i thought that was a normal thing for a boy to do with a woman. Like it was "scoring" somehow. Thinking about how my mother asked me when i was twenty years old, "Don't you wish you were born a girl?" Watching her buy barbie dolls when she was over 50, putting them all over the house.

Most of all, i wonder, "If you cant tell your crazy, then how do you get better?" "If i have some sort of disorder, then how would i know it?" This is something i think everybody who has been abused goes through. Some people get through mostly intact, but nothing saves you from wondering if you are occupying the same reality as everybody else.

thanks for listening.

#43919 - 08/04/02 06:21 PM Re: Unreal
Eddie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/31/02
Posts: 25
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
You may have hit on something with "sucking cock" relating to eating out a woman!!! In 1978 when I worked downtown...all of the Blacks called eating pussy.."sucking cock"...why...I don't know but that is what it was called back then!!! I was amazed with this because I was asked if I sucked cock...said no...and was grossed out for not getting down on eating pussy??? Maybe your mother used this term!


#43920 - 08/04/02 09:50 PM Re: Unreal
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I've seen this stuff as well, followed the same path.
And my view is that it is created by people like us - to a certain degree.
I used to write this stuff for myself a while back, page after page of truly horrid crap.
Thankfully I dont have it anymore, but I still remember too much of it.

We punish ourselves, I certainly did. And I did it by creating fantasies where extremes interacted and I came out the winner.
I created fantasies of extreme humiliation, X-dressing, rape, torture, being pissed and shit on. But the end result was the ultimate sexual experience, the cosmic orgasm.
Ever had one ? no, nor me.

But inevitably this led to acting out and some of this stuff became part of that, anything that led to humiliation was going to create the best sex- I thought. My acting out was so risky and degrading that it should have worked, can you believe the confusion I felt when all I was left with was a crummy wank ?

As you progress though, and I KNOW YOU WILL, the need for humiliation dies off, X-dressing and lurid fantasy no longer have the hold on us that they once did.
the more we think about our recovery the easier it is to interupt the acting out, it's hard - believe me it's hard. It's been just over 4 years since I went cottaging last, but the fantasy and the urge are still with me, it gets less each day. And for that I'm grateful
Be strong Broken
Lloydy \:\)

Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#43921 - 08/05/02 07:28 AM Re: Unreal
Broken Offline

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
Oh man, this stuff is so confusing. People seem to have two realities, you know? One is going to work every day at a job you dont really want, buying things you dont really need, paying rent for a home that provides you with no solace. The other is the world of the holocaust, witchburnings, crazy conservative militias up in the hills. Neither seems real. And people fall into either trap so readily it almost makes you want to believe you could just start over. Maybe you can, but where do you start again from?

There are definitely satanic, child molesting cults, child prostitution rings, and government brainwashing projects that are frighteningly, horribly, real. But thier scope and practical application is limited, i feel. It just opens the door for everybody who has ever been used, or is a user, to escape into an other world where things make sense. It is sad, because some of it IS real. This is not fiction, you know. But most of it is BS, and it completely discredits the survivors of these kind of traumas.

I think its best if we are catious, but free of paranoia. I know one thing is for sure, i will not become another paranoid schizophrenic or develop a messiah complex. My memory will come one day, but pushing wont make it come any faster.

On the other hand, maybe we need to shift our perspective a little. When frued created the edipus complex, i think he was trying to deny the reality of how many of his clients were sexually abused. (And that he himself might have been abused as well) I think instead of ONLY asking the question, how do we percieve and study those who have been reduced to a state no longer acceptable to society, that we should ALSO ask, what kind of effects societies judgements and expectations have on determaning and shaping people into a state that is not acceptable to society. In other words, is society reacting to a mental state that is unacceptable, or are some people simply reacting to societies conditioning? The lock in between never being able to prove or disprove a conspiracy leaves you with only one option, and that is to have an open mind, seek the truth, and live your life without fear.

#43922 - 08/05/02 04:08 PM Re: Unreal
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
hi Broken,
There is a lot of evil in our world. There is also a lot of good. While not wanting to pretend that everything is rosy, I feel less and less need to keep up with all the evil. I am a nervous guy to begin with. If I think too much of the evil I start getting worried to illness that my loved ones are not safe etc. I sure do not need that.
Be really patient and loving towards yourself with the recall stuff. I think our psyche tries to protect us from too much too soon. But maybe we can over rule it. Handle what you can. But be sure to do some things that really refresh you, re-create you. Make you feel happy. Do a lot of that as you go through this time of recall of horrible suffering. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.


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