Newest Members
chairdesklamp, Bill Ohio USA, jez, Long Way Home, Bcbornleo
13595 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
bdr (54), Duane99 (2018), Henry_MD (60), Jimi (64)
Who's Online
5 registered (anxietydepressio, chairdesklamp, 3 invisible), 24 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
13,595 Registered Members
75 Forums
70,716 Topics
493,853 Posts

Most users ever online: 418 @ 07/02/12 11:29 AM
Topic Options
#438893 - 06/22/13 08:16 PM Satan Enters Through the Mind
Becoming Other Offline

Registered: 07/26/11
Posts: 154
Loc: follow early Alice Miller, Del...
“Satan enters through the mind, if you let him. He gets in, if you go that way.”

She then went on to denounce any sort of thinking which is not what she sees as properly Christian. What she means is that we must not think “negative thoughts”. In her view, as it is with all the members of her church, these thoughts are the work of Satan. So if one feels one’s feelings, instead of using motivationalism to control what one feels, then one is submitting to Satan. They have identified as Satan the very aliveness and self-protectiveness which enable us to act in our own interest and to strike back when called to.

The quote above is what was said to me today by a Pentecostal woman, and she really believes it. You will also hear similar statements coming from New Ager’s. Much of our population is committed to denial as a moral virtue. If they are not using motivationalism, Born Again Christianity, or New Ageism, then they are probably on alcohol, drugs, or psychiatric medication. Either way they do not feel their pain and anger, they just stay dissociated. And of course they enforce this mode upon their children as well. Most of their families have a blacksheep, the designated scapegoat, the one who cannot live with the denial systems.

One of the reasons I inserted myself into the Christian Fundamentalist Molestation case was that I saw how much energy the defendant had invested in blacksheeping his eldest daughter. He was jumping around pointing and gesturing, telling me how the whole case was caused because his eldest daughter had a “problem with drugs, alcohol, and sex”. He was indignant and pointing at park bushes and exclaiming that, “She even had sex in the bushes!”

Well yes, at the age of 16 she did do exactly that, and she got caught. A letter went home to her parents and her father completely freaked out. He would be interrogating her beyond the hour of midnight for four months. Then he banished her from the home. So she lived with her maternal grandparents . To further humiliate her he had gotten her to confess to four such outdoor locations. Then he took her to each of them so that he could photograph her.

Then some years later the youngest girl, then in the 8th grade, said something to a counselor at youth center. The counselor was just an intern, but she did exactly what the law required. This is important, because we need to know if the existing protections actually work. She wrote the matter up and then faxed it to Police and Child Protective Services. Over the weeks which followed Police tracked down the eldest daughter. Soon they would be using a different detective to interview each family member. Then multiple felony charges, carrying the possibility of a very long sentence, were filed against the father. All of the charges pertained to the fondling of the three girls.

The defendant had known that I’d stepped into a couple of other matters, so he assumed that I was always pro-defense. Over a number of months I listened to him tell me how he was pouring all his energies into fighting this case. He was doing little else. So I listened and asked very few questions. What he told me was not really evidence. It never really indicated guilt or innocence, and I never asked for that. Rather, I got to see how committed he was to demonizing this eldest daughter and to calling all three of the girls liars. He also blamed the eldest girl for influencing the others.

As the case developed, the eldest daughter got married. Then she got the two younger girls to move in with her. Then she got herself and her new husband appointed as guardians of the two younger girls. The defendant was jumping around exclaiming of this, “Everything she has done with them is *pure malice*!”

Baiting him, “Do you mean turning them against you?”


Putting a Christian Fundamentalist behind bars should be like shooting fish in a barrel, because they live in a different world, one which revolves around who is Saved and who is not, and where such blacksheeping is the norm. I think this is what the DA expected too. Problem is, they still had the resources to hire a highly specialized attorney, someone who does nothing except child molestation and sex crime cases. He has clearly studied family conflicts and learned what the themes are and learned how to turn it all back against the child. He also panders to anti-feminist sentiments within the jury pool. I had not even known that such scum bags lived. I would end up writing about this at great length to the DA, showing her exactly where the vulnerabilities are.

I did say to the defendant, as the trial date was approaching, that I side with the child. I also explained to him that I did not consider the fact that the girls had not mentioned the molestations in earlier meetings with school councilors to be a strike against their credibility. I explained that it is always going to be very difficult for anyone to come forward with such allegations. I knew that his views were simply what he was being told by his defense attorney. But he acted like my idea was something he had never even considered before.

I was uncertain as to what sort of involvement I should have, and I still am not at liberty to disclose all which has transpired. Suffice for now to say that I knew I must not let this opportunity pass. Here was a conflict where a parent was blacksheeping his child, the other parent was following along, and it had escalated to the level of a major felony jury trial. Anytime a child comes forward with an accusation against a parent, they risk being condemned for failure to comply with the self-reliance ethic. Likewise, having grown up in such a church, they had to have internalized the denial ethic. So in coming forward these girls were taking a bold risk. So I knew that they had to be listened to and be believed. I knew that police prosecutors, judges, juries, and journalists all had to see that the public cares about these cases, and that the public is not fooled by the attempts to turn it back on the children, or by the defendant’s invocation of the good father role. I also knew that it was essential that the defendant serve serious time. The whole action could not be in vain. There had to be a serious result.

So I knew then that I must not be AWOL, confessing on the couch while making regular contributions to my therapist’s retirement account. I saw this as a test. Am I able to act, or have I also been so damaged by religion, therapy, live and let live, the self-reliance ethic, and by 12-step powerlessness that I am incapable of doing anything more than punching pillows and making affirmations in front of the mirror.

I knew that I had to act, but I was uncertain as to what that might entail. Suffice for now to say, I ended up having extensive communications with the DA, both face to face in the court house hallway, and in writing. The written communications were especially important because I wanted her superiors and colleagues to also read them, to see that the public does care and does understand what is going on.

When the defendant first saw that I intended to attend his trial, he almost lost it in the hallway. He was really angry and physically imposing, closing in on me saying, “I’m on trial for my life. Based on what you have told me, your presence here is going to raise the stress level. It will be like having another DA in the back row.” Though I never replied to him, when he approached me and started in, I looked to where the security cameras were, and made sure that we were in front of one. As far as what he said, he had no idea how right he would be. I have extended myself very far in becoming involved in this. Right now though I can only disclose a few aspects of what this had entailed. I will explain some of these.

I would write to the DA about how strong the relationship is between the defendant’s type of thinking, and the ideas prevalent in their church. I explained that most all the families in their church have a blacksheep. I explained how learning to live in one’s skin is a life’s work, but that this defendant belongs to a church committed to exactly the opposite. I explained that the problem he has with his eldest daughter is not that she experimented with drugs and alcohol. Her use of such was far less than his. That is of course before he got Saved. His problem with her is that she is not like the other blacksheep children of their church. Her life does not completely revolve around drugs and alcohol.

Likewise, the problem is not that at the age of 16 she had sex with a boyfriend. Rather it’s that she is not like the other blacksheep of their church, someone who has never known anything other than a futile quest for connection via destructive sexual relationships. Because she has not been completely destroyed, she is a threat to her father. I emphasized that when the three daughters first came forward with their complaint of sexual molestation, the mother tried to send all of them to “eye movement desensitization therapy”, an obvious brain washing technique.

I explained to the DA that the sexual molestations were not just for the defendant’s own gratification. Rather, he wanted to make the girls like him. Especially with the eldest, he needed her to feel that her own sexual desires were dirty, were the work of Satan. And he wanted her to live in the hell of having her own sexual experience bound up with him. Otherwise she would not have to live the sort of loveless and moralistic life that he has led.

If this goes the way I want, I’m going to be taking credit for it and bragging to everyone I have contact with. I’ll be tracking which facility he is in. I’ll be telling people where he is, how long he is in for, and about everything I did to help get him there.

We no longer have a working class in this country. Maybe for immigrants it still exists, but not for anyone else. So instead we have both an underclass and an untouchable caste. These do not offer the dignity and social standing which the working class once did. Living without dignity and social standing means continual pain and extreme vulnerability. As such, the people have to be controlled, kept passivated. The primary tools used to do this would seem to be alcohol, drugs, psychiatric medication, motivationalism, and born again christianity. Huge numbers of people swim in these realms. Usually they operate in the intersections, playing one off against the other. I wrote to the DA that their church does everything by having people hold hands in a prayer circle. I explained that with some of the people you can just about see the beads of sweat running down their foreheads as they are trying so very very hard to become good Christians. I explained that after such prayer circles there are going to be some really screwy people on high horses. It’s not at all uncommon that there are problems. When there are, someone will exclaim, “This is all the work of Satan.” I reminded her that the defendant likes to cast out demons.

Here we see a Senator Ted Cruz from Texas who is trying to advance himself and his party by targeting America’s underclass and trying to make deep cuts to one of our few social programs, Food Stamps.

If he succeeds, those who are already the most marginalized will become even less able to fight back, as they’ll be even more driven into the arms of the born again’s simply because they need to eat.

Of course all of this relates to the sorts of inscriptions made by the family. There is a forceful campaign against awareness and feeling which is always in play. One is to feel and think what one is supposed to feel and think. And of course the ones who cannot do this with motivationalism and christianity alone, will end up as the blacksheep, using drugs and alcohol. Some will end up on psychiatric medication too. Some of the blacksheep will remain in the underclass, but others will descend into the untouchable caste, living under bridges, on river ways, and often being in jails and psychiatric hospitals.

So you have two cultures where the family is making inscriptions. One is this underclass which lives via denial assisted by chemicals and by things like born again christianity. The other is the middle class which lives by doctrines like attachment, nurturing, empathy, and communications skills. That is, it lives by liberal pedagogy. Most people see liberal pedagogy as the remedy for the older pedagogy of innate moral defect. But both pedagogies produce the same result, people whose highest value in life is the self-reliance ethic, the work ethic, the live and let live ethic. What both groups reject most strongly is redress, doing anything to take forcefully take back one’s civil and social standing. Instead they would rather submit and live in the very small and compromised space which is left, according to the self-reliance ethic.

Most people who are critical of the working class family try to promote liberal pedagogy. One of the most important contributions of Alice Miller was to show that all pedagogy, including liberal pedagogy, serves the needs of the parents. It makes it look like the child is being respected, but really the child is being manipulated and used, and left in a condition where unscrambling what has happened will be extremely difficult.

Another factor which made this Christian fundamentalist molestation case so interesting was that this family was not really of the underclass. They were actually doing quite well, and except for the minimum of college education, would generally pass as middle class. The defendant had always been employed in white collar capacities and they lived quite high on the hog. Usually child protection laws do not reach such people. What Louise Armstrong writes is that child sexual molestation cases are usually the only type covered by the Child Abuse and Neglect Act where the defendant will have the ability to hire a private attorney.

Further, it was evident to me that all of the defendant’s views were simply his own reactionary thinking. I mean, he really should have known better. He should not have demonized his eldest daughter and eldest son. He should not have treated them like they were in prison. He should not have tried to advance a hard line religious fundamentalist position. He should not have had any contact at all with religious fundamentalism. He should not have been fondling his daughters. He should not have been trying to hide behind marriage and family. He should not have been using religion and motivationalism as an opiate, any more than he should have been using alcohol and drugs.

Generally I am in favor of more leniency in our criminal justice system. I am not actually calling for any new penalties or enhancements. The new areas I want to impose accountability on parents are all civil. But I also saw that the blacksheeping type of defense this defendant was deploying must be defeated. I saw that we will never get the accountability which I want to see, unless we start standing with the child victims. So I knew that I had to act.

I tried to get other people involved, but they all declined.

At this guy’s church they are all firm believers in Satan.

More people will read a post if the word “Satan” is used in the title.

Lady Zep

These girls must have listened to the original recordings almost as many times as I have. The girls I’ve known were certainly not like this. But that says more about me than it does them. Their neuroticism was only a reflection of my own. Neuroticism is the basis of all reactionary thinking. It’s also the only genuine mental illness.

Now what I seek are comrades, not more commiserators.

Fighting Born Again Christianity by Land, Sea, and Air,
Becoming Other

When Awareness is Not a Choice

#438902 - 06/22/13 10:32 PM Re: Satan Enters Through the Mind [Re: Becoming Other]
BraveFalcon Offline

Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 1231
Loc: The ATL

Wow, good read. I don't really have anything to add but it sounds like you've done a lot of good work out there. Keep it up. I hope this douche-nozzle father winds up rotting in prison. Sounds like the worst kind of scum. Good luck to you. Peace,


#438918 - 06/23/13 12:49 AM Re: Satan Enters Through the Mind [Re: Becoming Other]
Publius Offline

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 444
Loc: OH
"It is funny how mortals always picture us as putting things into their minds: in reality our best work is done by keeping things out.

Your Affectionate Uncle,

"Life is like this dark tunnel. You may not always see the light at the end of the tunnel, but if you keep moving, you will come to a better place." ~ General Iroh

#439281 - 06/26/13 09:12 PM Re: Satan Enters Through the Mind [Re: Becoming Other]
Becoming Other Offline

Registered: 07/26/11
Posts: 154
Loc: follow early Alice Miller, Del...
Thanks for the encouraging words. I believe he's going to be relegated to making license plates soon. Then I'm going to be claiming this as something akin to a "scalp". Once I know that the case is settled, I'll be able to say more about the role I made for myself. I am monitoring the situation.

To get into the courtroom for jury selection and to stay out of trouble, I had to disclose my relationship with the defendant. That is, I've had contact with people from his church.

The mother's parents were in the courtroom. They are not that much different from their daughter and the defendant. But they are siding with the 3 girls, and they did sit on the Prosecution side.

In the hallway they introduced me to the eldest daughter, as being from her parent’s church. I told her emphatically that I do not support their church at all. I told the maternal grandparents that the people from that church are crazy.

Parricides in the US run around 300 per year. So for a city of 1 million you might see 1 per year. For a city of 100,000, 1 every ten years. It’s a subject which is grossly under reported, and I would like to do something about this.

Their church has less than 100 people. So it should be 1 parricide every 10,000 years. Within the last 10 years it has had one patricide.

I don’t know the statistics for familial sexual molestation cases of this sort. But I do believe that if one could find some way to explore it, then they would find that there is more child abuse going on within that church, and within others like it.

I would say that the percentage of the congregation which has a serious alcohol or drug history is in excess of 50%. I would say that the percentage of the congregation with a family blacksheep, the one deemed expendable because they cannot live the denial systems, is in excess of 90%. The percentage of the congregation which takes a feel no pain approach to life experience is 100.00%. Everything is always in the hands of their rich and well-connected uncle in the sky. They just have to keep calling out his name so that eventually he will finally hear them. So of course then, it is the children who have to pay the cost of this insanity. From conversations I’ve had with this church’s members, and with the members of similar churches, I have come to call it the religion of alcohol, drugs, spousal abuse, and child abuse.

The government has a role to play in these sorts of prosecutions, and I’m very happy to help it be effective. What the government does is far gentler than what I would do myself. But now I would like to find some ways of doing some things the government cannot do. I would like to find some way to go on a fishing expedition. I would like to figure out some way of identifying child abuse cases within such churches, without waiting for probable cause. Of course a big factor would be that the parents would brag about it, because they think they are right.

This defendant was bragging. No, he didn’t actually say that he was fondling the girls. But he did go on and on about how bad the eldest girl was and how much “trouble they have had with her”, and about all the things he did to try and restrict her.

As it turns out, she is about as straight laced as they come. This is the biggest liability for the Prosecution too. Despite all which has happened, the eldest daughter is very much like her parents. Her priority is to do what people are supposed to do, to get on in life, to accumulate wealth and property. So it can sound like she is indicting her father because he is a screwball who does not bring home the bacon. She is blind to how much her mother has invested in keeping up appearances, and to how complicit her mother is in the molestations. So she is blind to all the ways in which she is like her mother. So it can sound like the daughter is accusing her father, using the same standards by which he is accusing her.

Then on top of this you have got a scum bag defense attorney who has studied the themes in familial conflict, and then built his entire career by turning it back on the child. He defends child molestation and internet kiddie porn cases.

I don't see myself as likely getting the chance to jump into a criminal case again. This was something of a fluke. As exciting as it feels to know that this guy will soon be remanded and taken away to the state prison, I know that this still falls far short of what is really needed. It will never be possible to lower the bar enough using criminal prosecution to handle even a small fraction of the blacksheeping cases.

Those who have been made the scape goat still have no legal recourse. Most don’t even understand what has happened, so instead they blame themselves. The remedy has to be a combination of civil suits, aggressive out of court obligation enforcments, and a blanket prohibition on disinheritance. More than anything, we who refuse to accept the blacksheeping and the premises which underlie it have to start banding together and inflicting consequence.

Just start tuning your ears for the blacksheeping, discussions of the child that is no good, a bum, a slut, a drunk, a junky. Sometimes it comes out as professions of support for the child, and as advocacy for a more lenient criminal justice system. But either way, that child is still the designated defective. When you hear this, you can know that the parent feels that they have a mandate to break the child’s will. The odds are that there has been abuse, or that it is even still going on. If the child had been made to believe that they are the responsible party, then that most certainly constitutes ongoing abuse up until the moment the condition is rectified. The only way to rectify it is redress. It was such blacksheeping which first piqued my interest in this christian fundamentalist case.

If those of us who have been exploited and who have been blacksheeped ever want to have social legitimacy, then we have to start banding together and inflicting consequences. Your therapist is not going to do this for you. Your therapist has never performed an act of redress in their entire life. All they are trying to do is make you more like them, make you into someone who submits to get along, and into someone who abuses others as they were abused. Your therapist is trying to socialize you just as your parents did. Bottom line is that they want you to accept things as they are. Sure, the language may be updated some, but it still serves the same purpose of breaking the will. Your therapist is a collaborator, and they are trying to make you into one.

You cannot reclaim social standing by lying down and submitting to the self-reliance ethic. The only way to reclaim social standing is by organizing and striking back, by actually inflicting consequence. When we can do this, then people will respect us and we will finally have cause to respect ourselves. We will have a place in the world, it will be the place we make as a mobile band which strikes blows.

What it comes down to is fighting the Family System. By this I don’t mean any one person’s family. What I mean is a social order which has been tasked with the duty of inscribing upon you the self-reliance ethic. So you are made to believe that no one owes you anything, and that you must demonstrate that you can take care of yourself. They call this self-reliance, but really it means submission, doing what they want you to do, becoming part of the system. The most important things to understand about this are its premises. It’s all predicated on the idea that people are somehow slothful, lazy, or just somehow deficient in something they need. It’s very similar to what Alice Miller wrote about, the idea that children are “willful”, and need to be broken. The Born Again’s call it “rebellious”. It’s the same as the doctrine of Original Sin, articulated most clearly by Augustine in his “Confessions”.

It runs contrary to common experience. People want to do well, they want to win the admiration of their peers, they want greatness. So if someone seems to be having troubles, then what that means is that something wrong has been done to them. There is something which has undermined their social legitimacy and that something has not yet been redressed. The self-reliance ethic is simply a justification for taking a parental role and severely harming children. But it’s not just parents, it’s institutions of every form which perpetuate this.

So it doesn’t matter if your parents died when you were 2 years old, if you grew up in foster care, in an orphanage, or if they sold you to the circus. If you believe that no one owes you anything and that you must prove that you can take care of yourself, then you have been inscribed upon by the Family System. If you do not want to accept this, then the only real alternative is to find comrades and start fighting back.

I know how it goes, your therapist feels your pain. Your therapist affirms you in saying how bad your parents were. Your therapist has written a new book about empathy, attachment, nurturing, and communications skills. Your therapist really cares about you, and your therapist really wants you to get better.

Your therapist is just a last attempt to try and get you to submit. They are trying to win you over by showing you how you can gain power by learning the language of this decades will breaking, and by submitting to the self-reliance ethic, and especially by having a child of your own to give you social standing. So anything you disclose to your therapist weakens your ability to fight back.

Only when we stop collaborating, stop seeking nirvana, stop trying to become normal, stop looking for healing because we have nothing to heal, and instead start banding together and inflicting consequence, will we be able to enjoy the aliveness which has been nearly destroyed and be able to celebrate in the actions we are taking.

One of the first things I want is to learn about are the attorneys and activists who are setting the high water marks for child versus parent law suits. Getting this information is very hard. People who don’t want to deal with it will just brush me and the issue off by saying, “It is right there, you can use Google to find it.”, and then they will expel me from their forum. Other’s just refuse to talk about it at all.

Well, it is very hard to get. Practicing attorneys won’t talk in the abstract. And unless they accept a case, they won’t say anything about it at all. There is no easy way to track progress in civil litigation. And there is no way at all of identifying those activist attorneys who are trying to find entry points. Comrades are people who would have looked into such matters in the countries which they live in. Commiserators are people who don’t even care and who see such concerns as nothing more that psychopathology.

Here is one example of such a lawsuit:

While I don’t see everything the way Andrew Vachss does, he certainly has the right attitude about such cases.

These sorts of law suits could be in the areas of compensation for abuse, or simply an attempt to prevent disinheritance. It doesn’t really matter what you call it. The basic principle is that if you have had authority over a child, then you are responsible. Further, if you try to shift blame back to the child ( blacksheeping ), then your capability compounds exponentially and we are going to come after you and make an example of you. What it really comes down to is what Sartre and de Beauvoir said, that the bourgiosie lives in Bad Faith. It’s always the children who pay the costs of this.

Most people are just like their parents, and they try to justify their parents. When you find a case of high animosity, what it means is that the parent’s did not live up to their own values. The child has subsumed the parent’s values, but the parent did not live up to them themselves. The parent acted to try and destroy the child. It really is that simple. It takes us right back to Moriah. So when we find such a case of high animosity, we need to side with the child and make sure that an example is made in what happens to the parent.

There is no such thing as a dysfunctional family, there is only redress deferred.

Becoming Other

Exploited Children United

Terminal, by Andrew Vachss

Zepparella, Dazed and Confused

#439357 - 06/27/13 05:21 PM Re: Satan Enters Through the Mind [Re: Becoming Other]
bodyguard8367 Offline

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""

Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/27/14 09:55 PM)


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.