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#434705 - 05/15/13 03:51 AM don't think I'm good enough for a girl *suicide WT
takingitslow Offline

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 100
Loc: UK
This is really long and rambly. But helps me think.

I'm 24 just finishing university. Right now I'm pretty depressed again which isn't helpful. Exam period has started and I'm starting to get depressed again (concentration getting less, more sleepy, feeling hopeless). So I'd take a pass for my degree right now even though my potential would of been much higher had I not had a bad few years with depression, CSA recovery and being suicidal.

Anyway I haven't ever had a proper girlfriend. Sure when I was like 10-12 years old I had girlfriends but I've never been in a teen or adult relationship. My non blood uncle was my perp from 14-21/22 years old. Looking back on it now he pretty much controlled me with grooming, non threatening, taking advantage of my sexual naivety, taking advantage of the fact I hated my Dad and I had always looked upto my friend's fathers and male relatives. I didnt realise at the time how much control he had over all areas of my life- the dissociation part of me must of just blocked it out. Yeah that all pisses me off looking back at that time of my life. The police investigation against my perp is on going hopefully a trial in next 3-4 months so I'll have revenge.

So my life right now. Finishing university in next 4 weeks hope I don't fail but I might fail one of my exams as I'm not mentally fit right now- bad time but that's life I guess. It doesn't stress me out.. I think subconsciously I know I could commit suicide if I over stress myself so my mind is going easy on my body to stop me doing anything stupid. Got the police/perp investigation on my mind luckily I've been able to think less and less about this over the last week. I think the exams are dominating part of my brain so not got time to worry about a trial or the recurrent trauma from my perp. I'm really poor at the moment. Like 14,000 personal debt due to my gambling problem so living very basically. That isnt stressing me out Im happy to just have enough food and no money means cant gamble. I mention the debt as I feel that it affects my ability to pursue women at the moment as lack of money = restriction on spending on social things/presents/going out not ideal when you're looking for love. I generally have a ok self esteem surprising considering the pressures I have to put up with. Im honest to my friends and family who I disclosed my CSA and even though they did treat me like shit since disclosure or not been supportive that doesnt depress me at the moment. Its like I'm willing to drop them from my future life. My parents included. It just makes it hard to meet a potential partner. Sure I could lie to impress women put the mask on pretend my life is better than it is, Im an expert at this got 10 years experience. But I dont want to lie anymore. Ive cut my lying out with people I have disclosed to about CSA. But those I havent I lie more frequently as I go into my old ways of projecting humour, confidence, the sort of allurement to draw people to me as I seem fun, happy and going places in life- yet inside I'm just dead and living day to day with little hope for a sustainable future just lots of anger about my CSA.

Anyway so the girl I have a crush on at the moment. She is a room mate in my university halls. Known her like 9 months. Shes portugese 22 years old. The first 5-6 months I didnt know her at all as I was so depressed at the time that I spent most of that time in bed or isolated. But none of my room mates knew I was depressed as when ever they did see me I seemed happy and I'm good at dominating conversations setting the tone of interaction so no one picked up on the fact I was so suicidal and just wanted to jump off a building. But the last month or two my depression has been reduced and I've spent more time with my room mates.

I'm very good at reading people, emotions, body signs, reading into when sarcasm, bluntness or disinterest is being portrayed by a talker. I'd make a good interrogator or negotiator. Im pretty good at live poker. Anyway the girl I have a crush on she is very driven, strong minded and has a way of pretending she cares about something more than she does. I dont mean this as a criticism as she isn't a bad person I just get the idea that her current set of university friends are more friends out of necessity than on genuine merits. So when I interact with her I always call her out on being sarcastic, evil, not caring or being miserable. I guess I do this because she bites when I give her a little personal attack/insult and I act very jestfully, I'm able to be light hearted, humoured when some of my words could be perceived as hostile if I was more cold. But I get away with a lot when I talk with people and I think I enjoy random conversation as people are less able to fake/pretend with me as I catch them off guard. I'd drop a random question in every now and then like would you ever kill anyone and if so why? or if you could have one thing what would it be? I feel alot of people think I'm a bit weird/ goofy but I pick up a lot of information about people from these little questions. I pick up how comfortable people are on topics, whether they are having to think hard and perhaps that split second thought process is useful to know for future reference as it is a subtle tell whether some one may deviate from their usual narrative or if they're lying or telling the truth. Im an exceptional liar, as I mentioned I dont use this as much any more as it pisses me off triggers me of my past. Anyway I interact with the girl I fancy and a few months ago she would give me some banter back she signposted herself as a go getter, but a little unsure in herself which I found odd as she is pretty but I can see she is inexperienced with men or doesnt seem to realise how pretty she is. She is quite boyish in that she would not want to lose a little conversation with me, she laughs quite frequently so I don't think she finds me funny as although I make her laugh she laughs so often that I don't think she finds me exceptionally funny. So until recently I thought she just enjoyed my random conversations as I'm more random than all the generic posh boys I live with her are very boring. I never thought of her as girl friend material because I find spanish girls dont like me. Im english and we're so different to spanish people that I've never been able to get along with spanish girls so I thought well being judgmental that as portugal and spain are very similar then she'll probably not like english guys either.

So 6 months ago she tells us all she is starting a job in London in the summer with a very good starting salary 35,000 for a graduate. 2 weeks ago she gets a phone call from her future employer saying she was their favourite intern and there is a position come up and she has been offered it so she will now start on 55,000 and not have to the graduate scheme. So congrats to her. So I was discussing with a friend from home about her job and my friend replied you should marry her- obviously taken in the form of joking and just approval of her doing well. So I talk to another friend about job hunting and again I say a girl I live with is starting her job in london ect and again this friend says you should marry her. I thought this was odd that two friends said this as they re not the married types they re players and it was out of character so I found it funny. So later that day I told the girl (I now like) about how everyone is telling me to marry her but I said it jokingly just because I was bored and I guess I like to share jokes/ make up jokes so I was joking that she has a queue of my friends who dont even know her who would marry her in a heartbeat. I also guess I like to give people compliments if they genuinely deserve them as I know how nice it is to be complimented.

Anyway the next day she starts the conversation with me about this marriage proposal carrying on with the jokes about it. So as I'm very quick thinker I just make a joke up on the spot about it like saying well you've motivated me to do well in my exams as if I fail I'll have to be a house dad.

Then the day after again she brings up a marriage joke. So we joke about it some more. One of her university friends who I know she isn't really close to her in the sense she would probably not be close to her in 5 years but at the moment they probably chat she brings up a reference to me marrying her. So again I just joke it off. But in my mind I see it as the girl I like is probably just bored and its something to talk about but its stuck in her mind as a topic. Not to say that wants me to marry her but I think she saw it as a compliment in the context of her doing well in life.

Anyway over the last few days I've noticed her stealing glances at me a lot. Like 6 of us are sitting in the kitchen Im on my laptop and she keeps just looking at me. Then diverting her eyes. And it's silent and she'll say to me what am I doing. And I'll just say studying and cut it short where normally I'll say something silly or a abstract anecdote but I'm trying to study at the moment. But the frequency of her looking at me and no one else I just get the idea that there is some attraction there. Or she is wondering whether there is some attraction there. She's single at the moment and I've seen some of my other room mates try it on with her and flirt and she deflects it. It makes me chuckle as each time I just knew the guy was not getting anywhere and she was signalling to the guy she wasnt interested.

So right now I get the idea she might be interested. It wouldn't dishearten me if I was wrong. What annoys me is that I don't know how to approach her. I mean I could easily ask her out or be direct and say do you want to foul around/ casually. What I mean is I'm torn. I could easily lie to her use her for some sexual contact manipulate her if she was interested for a few weeks. But I don't want to do that. I guess the csa in me is making me really think about the feelings of both parties in any sexual relationship and I don't want to be a dick. But then again I don't particularly want anything serious at the moment with any one. I would like to just lose my virginity get some experience have some harmless fun for the mutual benefit of me and the girl treating it as just sex. But I feel this girl I would only have the chance now to be with her. Be it short term or long term. I really like her personality as she is challenging she is more open with me than most girls but I guess I draw most people more out of their skin even if she is generally more shy and reserved with other guys.

I look at life as you only live once. Im not afraid of rejection. I guess Im a bit intimidated by her at the moment as I would have 2 approaches. One is be honest but then that would make me seem less desirable due to no money, family problems, trial with my perp and CSA, and whenever I bring up CSA with anyone I become very angry if they piss me off so that would open up a completely different side of me to her. Completely opposite to maybe what is making me attractive to her now. I'm quite pretty, I come across as happy, confident, but with my CSA I'm a bit of a monster when I talk about it face to face and I give no one any room for error if they say something I dont want to hear. The other option would be to just bluntly say to her would she like to just mess around like young people do. Sure this is most likely going to get a NO response as I know women don't want to look like they're being just used for sex and women prefer a boyfriend than a fuck buddy. But that would be the closest to me being honest. I'm not in a good place at the moment to have a relationship. Too much shit going on not fair on someone else to lie to them or make them upset over all the crap I have going on. So the other option is dont do anything about it. Just miss out. I hate this option but maybe its for the best. The best for her as I feel at the moment she is too good for me. Her life is going very well for her. Im dysfunctional uncertain future. I feel I have a great future maybe in few years after all this shit has passed- may be that is just optimism. But in the last 10 years Ive missed out on a lot of potential relationships encounters or one night stands due to my csa and I dont like the thought of keep missing out on opportunities. I guess the CSA has made me have more empathy for not causing emotional turmoil involving any sexual contact even though it is natural for men and women to have relationships or causal sex and there to be problems after. The good with the bad.

I think I'm more attracted to her recently as well due to her stature with the job and salary making her more powerful. Added with her strong personality at times, sure she has admitted weaknesses to me like she cries on her own alot but that is another sign of strength being honest admitting some weakness.Long term I need a woman who is strong just to put up with my mood swings and challenge my behaviour.

So sorry this has been a long ramble. I'm just so torn. It's like I just want to kiss or cuddle. Just to lie with someone feel someone's body next to mine. I guess I just see a guy as a bullshitter if he presents himself in any form which is false just for the purpose to get a girl interested and then keeping it up is unfair. Im not an arsehole I know I should just not get too serious with any girl at the moment but it is not easy just doing nothing and then in the future thinking what if. And she is a real catch so I guess in a odd way I think if I was with her and it didnt work out then I cheated her out of some time where she was better off with out me in her life or that I'll act in a way where I dont like the fact she is doing better than me at the moment in terms of a job and salary. Money doesnt drive me at all but I would find it intimidating if I was unemployed for a long time and she is on a massive salary would make me feel shit about myself even if I was with her and she made me feel good as well.

If you read all of that sorry for the length once I started I just carried on and on.

#434722 - 05/15/13 11:57 AM Re: don't think I'm good enough for a girl *suicide WT [Re: takingitslow]
Farmer Boy Offline

Registered: 08/23/12
Posts: 442
Loc: Australia
Wow Dan

You have a lot going on. This girl sounds pretty special and to be honest so do you. To be able to put on a happy face with all you have going on is not an easy task.

As far as her being too good for you - let her decide.

The future - who knows but there is only one way to find out.

Possible rejection - you said you can handle that. I am sure you could laugh it off on the outside anyway.

CSA and telling her - not something for the first date.. but she may surprise you. Even as 'just a friend' she may be your biggest supporter.

Be yourself (your whole self - happy, confident, angry and moody) and take it slow and see what happens.

If you are going to get married - you should probably go on a date first.

More than meets the eye!

#434730 - 05/15/13 02:43 PM Re: don't think I'm good enough for a girl *suicide WT [Re: takingitslow]
Jude Offline

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1633
Loc: New England
Hey Dan,

Good post! Thats what we're here for. As I read it, it sounds like you are just 2 years out of the hands of your abuser. It also sounds like you are struggling with some very serious depression, and are without much support. When some one uses the words "depression and "suicide" in the same paragraph, red flags go up for me (been there, done that).

I am more concerned that you get under the care of a physician and/or therapist, than I am about your pursuit of this girl. You're 24, there's lots of time for love, sex, and relationships. It might be wise to make dealing with the effects of CSA on your life, a priority right now.

This is your decision, and I'm only speaking from my own experience, but consider that relationships with women generally work best when both parties are in reasonably good emotional health. I guess if she's up for just a quick sexual experience (I never met any of those women), you have nothing to lose, as long as you feel like you can deal with it.

Whatever you decide, please take care of Dan. I hear alot of pain in your post that can and should be dealt with.

I will remember you
Will you remember me?
Don't let your life pass you by
Weep not for the memories
Sarah McLachlan

#435158 - 05/19/13 10:43 PM Re: don't think I'm good enough for a girl *suicide WT [Re: takingitslow]
takingitslow Offline

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 100
Loc: UK
I can't help my feelings for this woman. I'm really smitten with her. Just seeing her for a few minutes a day lights up my day. She is sending me signals so when the exam period finishes in a few weeks I'm going to up the ante. I have nothing to lose.

Even if it doesn't work out with her it makes me optimistic for the future that I can find love and be happy. Also it adds fuel to the fire of hatred for my perp, I will triumph over him crush the stupid bastard then make the most of life.


Edited by takingitslow (05/19/13 10:49 PM)

#435174 - 05/20/13 12:16 AM Re: don't think I'm good enough for a girl *suicide WT [Re: takingitslow]
Poorsoft Offline

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 163
"We accept the love we think we deserve"

Learn to love yourself and thank yourself for the things that you do for others and most importantly yourself.

Once you begin to value yourself you will be able to accept others love and thus not feel the way you do.

I'm guilty of this also though.

#435235 - 05/20/13 12:03 PM Re: don't think I'm good enough for a girl *suicide WT [Re: takingitslow]
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2716
Loc: durham, north england
Hi Dan.

Firstly, have you considdered going part time with your course? I'm just finishing the final corrections for a doctorate at the moment, and after I crashed in 2007, found I couldn't work whatever the heck I did due to the depression, nightmares, lack of energy and other things you describe I actually found going part time helped significantly, since it meant when I was able! to work on my thesis I could, but I didn't have to try and force myself on those occasions when I couldn't.

University is hard, and doing that on top of recovery, let alone investigations and everything else is still worse, and if it takes an extra year or so to get your degree, ---- well that's far better than not getting one at all and ending up in a bad position.

As to your feelings for this girl, well if you can perceive her interest then your doing better than me, however one thing I will say honesty is perhaps a good idea especially if you are not in a good place yourself. You don't have to be absolutely! honest, but giving part of the truth, eg, "I'd like to be closer but I'm not sure at the moment" might help a lot, especially with anxiety.

i'll also say that while you can't generalize, certainly the Spanish and portugese people I know have been very emotionally open, and often a lot less inhibited about sharing feelings than us Brits.

Before doing this however, you might want to decide what exactly you want. You say you are looking for more than a casual encounter, but not literally mariage. This is fair enough,a nd it might be love, but you might want to sort tht in your head.

I also confess I disagree with porsoft, it's quite possible to love others without loving yourself, indeed loving others is the easy part.

#435319 - 05/21/13 04:18 AM Re: don't think I'm good enough for a girl *suicide WT [Re: takingitslow]
takingitslow Offline

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 100
Loc: UK
Sometimes you have to just laugh at the absurdity of your life. I have an exam in 9hrs trying to study not going great.

I was talking to the girl I like in the kitchen along with her friend. They were asking me intimate questions about ex girlfriends and my past ect probably just probing to weigh me up and because they were probably bored. I put on my usual bullshitter face made up a couple of ex girlfriends, funny stories, entirely convincing they were lapping it up I was just putting up my self defence mechanism for people who dont know my csa. Anyway I explained my last 3 years of messing up university- gave no real reason for it just said I had taken 3 years to try and finish but that I was having problems with failing, alcoholism and not attending classes (again all lies the CSA big elephant in the room didnt share obviously) any way the girl I like replied sort of agitatedly that my life annoys her (clearly implying that I should of finished uni by now. So we moved on to a different topic and now im in the library trying to study.

I think I did a good job I didnt lie to make myself look good. Im just good at talking and pitching stories. I gave across a negative couple of recent years without the real cause of CSA. I delivered it in a I don't really care/easy going way. But it makes me laugh at how absurd life is you tell someone (who is successful up until this point of her life) that you've had a bad time with a few things for couple of years and you get a response saying 'that annoys her' = maybe she is disappointed in me failing one of her tick boxes for suitability or not being motivated whatever. But inside you just think omg you have no idea you think that made up story annoys you that made up story my dear is the tip on the giant motherfucking iceberg. Ha ha ha that isnt a laugh at it in terms of being funny but how difficult talking to potential gf material is great

I rushed this post as not got much time to be on here but her phrase 'your life annoys me' just made me crack up yes I lied made up a fake backstory as usual but I got a fair result I guess by at least making a back story which didnt big me up. Just made me look negative traits for a much less damaging reason.


#435320 - 05/21/13 04:28 AM Re: don't think I'm good enough for a girl *suicide WT [Re: takingitslow]
takingitslow Offline

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 100
Loc: UK
But I get the impression she is up for some sex experimenting as she is quite inexperienced and shy. Her friend was basically signalling me to just jump on her she won't say no. I said I wasn't looking for anything serious at the moment (no strings attached sex would do) so I don't think my chances are harmed for that. We could mutually benefit from some no strings sex. I sort of didnt want to pursue her as gf material because of the shit im putting up with at the moment.

But as a 24 year old virgin living up to my billing could be tricky probably just have to load up on alcohol and blame the alcohol for flopping.


#435366 - 05/21/13 08:47 PM Re: don't think I'm good enough for a girl *suicide WT [Re: takingitslow]
nomad510 Offline

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 43
Hi Dan,

I'm going to try and give you some advice coming from my perspective and hopefully it will be helpful. Having been in similar situations and having the same kind of thoughts and feelings I know the kind of frustration you seem to be feeling.

There seems to be a few thought patterns that are working against you here that I can identify.

You're putting her on a pedestal far above yourself and thinking of her as a much more valuable human being than yourself.

While this may feel good to her and boost her ego she will begin to see (if not already) that you're way below her in value. At least in perceived value. Because I don't believe you're less of a person because of CSA, in reality we're all probably more of a person because of the battles we've fought. Hey if it was a real battle we'd all be receiving awards and medals of honor.

But your perception will become her perception so you need to work on this ASAP before you miss this opportunity. It's quite possible she sees your value higher that you see yourself but if you can't see the same thing than there is a depravity in beliefs and this in of itself can cause a riff.

She seemed to pay more attention to you when you were in the kitchen being more nonchalant, and paying less attention to her, she may want to feel like she's earned that pedestal instead of it being given to her because she was born with good looks, just a thought. Also the teasing is a good flirting gesture that you did that seemed was effective with her.

I would take this approach: treat her as your equal and nothing more than that. Look for common ground and subjects you can discuss that will build some more bonds.

Most importantly is your healing from the CSA but I don't think that means you can't have some kind of quality relations with women.

If you want to take things further with her then try to get her to meet up with you for a coffee and maybe a bite to eat so you can spend some more 1 on 1 time with her. Use your humor and don't put her WAY up there out of reach. If you can get her to laugh over and over again you will be amazed at results. I usually don't plan anything sexual because it also makes me feel guilty and i have religious beliefs that i should wait until marriage for sexual inter course but something usually happens and I think it's because I make myself a challenge. She also sounds like a go getter like a lot of career driven women these days so she may appreciate a fun challenge, but if helps if you're mysterious and don't lay all you're cards out before her. You're a poker player so think about that and make it interesting for her.

Once your get over this hump and feel like you've made some progress you'll gain more confidence and that will grow more confidence and you will see that don't have to be a slave to your past any longer because your are addressing that too it sounds. I don't want to give the impression that its easy because trust me I've had more epics failures that most guys, but I'm proof that anyone can improve and turn that corner and I am gaining more and more confidence with women and really it started recently and rapidly.

Good luck Dan!

#435829 - 05/26/13 04:32 AM Re: don't think I'm good enough for a girl *suicide WT [Re: takingitslow]
takingitslow Offline

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 100
Loc: UK
I'm building myself up to having an intimate talk with this girl. One-to-one.

I'm going to wait a few days until after my last exam finishes. I can't get her out of my head. I've fallen for her. Sure this talk is going to brutal and probably crush me if Im rejected which is most likely.

I had 2 options. One was to try and just sleep with her. Which I think I could do quite easily as she seems to be in to the fake me which I project. Im charming funny (its all phony but I pull it off) and there is mutual attraction. But I feel so strongly for her that I don't want to just sleep with her. It's like if I sleep with her and that is it. Nothing more. That will really hurt as I'll be reminded of how I had the girl who I'm love struck on in my arms and then it was over so soon.

The other option was to remain fake and try to get her as my girlfriend but then just keep up the lies and not really think about a plan of how to be honest with her so just go with it and I really didn't like this option either. Im not going to elaborate much on this as I just hate the idea of living a lie with some one you want to connect with so closely.

So now I'm left with this situation of either 1) dont say anything and miss out or 2) have a talk with her.

Not saying anything would be so painful as it would mean another woman I missed out on due to fear of rejection/fear of being judged for my past. Im not going to allow that to happen. I'd rather deal with being pointblank face to face rejected.

So this talk Im going to have. Wow this is going to suck. Im a great speaker in public I guess I need to just decide what the exact approach is im going to go with. I'll feed off her responses. Im a quick thinker I've sort of got a few ideas in my head of how this could pan out differently.

The only problem is this talk could be quite long or it could be very short I'll see how she responds early on. Could be the easiest 2minutes or hardest 2 hours. Cant predict exactly how it is going to go.

I just know I need to do this. Like all the other shit things I've needed to do recently which hurt but are necessary. (Sit exams when so stressed out, police about csa, deal with no money and loads of debts phone calls re debt)

Before I talk to her Im going to have to delete all my public posts about her just incase she looks on here after I may tell her I use this site for support. I dont like the idea of deleting posts but I imagine after this talk she'll be confused, unsure, want more answers, not exactly know how she feels. So naturally if she looks on here sees me talk about her she might interpret it wrongly where as I know if i talk to her face to face I can be honest and as painful as opening my self up on something like csa I hope I can give her a correct image of me being on my recovery getting stronger and wanting to distant myself from past behavioural patterns. I can only try and then it is up to her.


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