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#432906 - 04/29/13 06:18 PM Re: How not to get angry ... [Re: Observador]
Airmid Offline


Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 95
Loc: South
Sometimes the avoidance and masturbation is easier for them. I know mine carried so much shame(and still does) that to even approach it was taken as "WTH is wrong with you, you nasty person!"

I generally believe that a little self love from time to time is fine, but when it replaces attempting intimacy, it's acting on the fear and shame to numb out, and that's not a good deal. To me, that's like drugging, and isn't acceptable.

But, we can't make anyone grow on our time lines. Honestly, my H still does it, although I can tell from clues that it's less frequent, and I can see that with therapy, he's willing to take the risk of getting emotionally closer to me. That means more sexual closeness, even if it's not to the depth or frequency I would like. So I see progress. I don't say "yay you" or note it aloud, because any mention can still bring the shame back to him, but I show gratitude when he's more emotionally and physically intimate with me.

Observador, is he in therapy right now? if not, what you're saying falls into place pre-recovery. It also makes sense for this to crop back up when survivors are stressed or doing heavy therapeutic work. One of my guy friends who's a survivor pointed out that there were days he could barely carry on an average conversation, much less maintain emotional intimacy with anyone else. He said his emotions were just fried.

Edited because I addressed the wrong person. Sorry!


Edited by Airmid (04/29/13 06:19 PM)

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#433061 - 04/30/13 04:02 PM Re: How not to get angry ... [Re: Airmid]
Observador Offline


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: Airmid
Observador, is he in therapy right now? if not, what you're saying falls into place pre-recovery. It also makes sense for this to crop back up when survivors are stressed or doing heavy therapeutic work. One of my guy friends who's a survivor pointed out that there were days he could barely carry on an average conversation, much less maintain emotional intimacy with anyone else. He said his emotions were just fried.

No he is not. We can't afford it. He even denies that it ever happened. I found out about his CSA by pure chance, he was having a nightmare. So I started to put thing together and figured it out.
I am a stay at home mom, with no family close, but him, and depend on him for every little thing. I have to ask permission to do anything, tell him if I go to the grocery store. If I ask him why he is late, or what he is doing, he gets mad, and always turn the things around, like I am to blame for everything. I am so tired. I am so weak, I can't confront him, because I know he will blame it on me, and it will put me down, and I will believe him. I am so afraid to tell him anything. I try to do everything right, so he would no get angry. He does not call me names, or bad words, he does not hit me, but I hate the way he makes me feel. Once I was shaking and Stuttering(?)( sorry, my English is doubtful) to tell him something that I could not do the way he wanted me to, over the phone. When I approached him to read about CSA on the internet, to see if he could identify himself with anything, he said I was not right in head, I should seek help, and I believed him, even though I knew deep inside that I was fine, I even started hearing voices, noises there were not there. But then I got back on my feet for the sake of my children. I am so tired. I don't smile anymore. I am alone, my family is so far away. It is hard to accept that the person I love and care the most is the one responsible for my misery and despair.

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#433076 - 04/30/13 06:11 PM Re: How not to get angry ... [Re: Observador]
Airmid Offline


Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 95
Loc: South
I'm sorry you're hurting. Is there a domestic violence/abuse center in your area? Not only do they offer shelter, but counseling for all types of abuse. the center where I live (near a major city), also offers one-on-one for men, should he ever get willing to heal.

But this space is yours. Since he's acting controlling, you may have to get creative: maybe call the center and arrange for a session when they offer child care. Explain the truth to them, and to him...well, since we repeat patterns we learned as kids, there's a chance you might come from a controlling or abusive house, yes? If so, he will only know you're going to deal with the fallout from that. If you didn't grow up with any abuse, you might need to find another way to leave for sessions. this is vital for us; I don't know where I'd be without individual counseling. Last January, I finally had had enough (the story is long and in my first few posts if you'd like to read it), and did actually prepare to leave if he didn't seek help for himself. Ou marriage counselor asked him to not return to session until he wasn't intimidating, threatening and abusive; she arranged for him to get individual elsewhere.

Another option is Al-Anon, and many cities have meetings with child care and during the day when most people are at work, as well as at night.

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#504628 - 12/06/16 03:25 PM Re: How not to get angry ... [Re: Observador]
WontGiveUp Offline


Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 218
Loc: Texas
Ugh.... I struggle with the aftermath myself. My husband had a masturbation problem. And I call it a problem because he pretty much ignored (and even more so now) me and preferred to please himself instead of being in a normal, healthy sexual relationship with his wife. Personally - its my own opinion that its cheating. I know for a fact he got mad at me even asking how he would feel if I masturbated to the image and idea of another man. I think that was the first time it hit him that its a problem. Of course, he still DID it (and was caught multiple times and yet lied).

Secrecy and lies... neglect, loneliness. Poisons.

I dont think my husband cheated with another person - but he certainly cheated me out of a healthy sexual relationship/marriage and now is running away. I know in my head the reasons, and i have accepted it in my brain. I get that having a healthy romantic/sexual relationship just isnt possible right now based on him saying that part of him is dead at the moment. I accept and embraced that with the idea that we would work together to recover (him and the CSA , me and my anger/hurt). Honestly - while occasionally it grates me, generally I have forgiven him for the past and it really doesnt come up very often (save for some times when I get triggered - as I talked about in another post today). And I say "generally" because its when the thought that he might still be lying to me comes up, its hard to maintain that state of forgiveness.

My husband, while angry and having problems with transference of that anger towards me is NEVER violent. I am grateful for that. Generally he is quite good natured, at least on the surface. And when I am triggered, all my suspicions are reignited. I try very hard to not expose my husband to that, since he has worked very hard on his changes, I do not want to jeopardize ANY of that. He doesnt deserve that. But I gotta find a way to move past some of this and not go directly to suspicion and anger for what *MIGHT* be going on when I feel this way.

I wish I knew how not to get angry - but I dont. Even after time and working on my anger, I still DO get very angry. I have come to the conclusion though that my anger is rooted in fear. When your husband walks away from you and finds self pleasuring better than being with you - it causes all sorts of fears. Insecurities... thinking that you arent good enough, not beautiful enough, or not fit enough. Right now - I cannot stand to see myself in the mirror so I avoid them at all cost (hard in my house which is full of them!). I know that self hatred is rooted in the fear created by my relationship with my husband. But its not HIS responsibility - its mine. I am the only one who can undo that fear. And hopefully, as I work on that, my anger will lesson as well.

I dont spend all my time angry, its very little of it and happily getting less and less... but its there. I think those who said letting go is the only answer are right. I have been working on that as much as I can since the day he said he wanted to leave, since the only time he wanted to be married was when he was in a good mood.

Sorry - today is one of those days. I am rambling and reading posts of those who it seems are living my same life. Its hard, but its good to see that there is some hope.
_________________________
*** rising from the ashes like a phoenix ***

Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.

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#504644 - 12/07/16 04:22 AM Re: How not to get angry ... [Re: Observador]
HealingHope Offline


Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 243
Hi WGU, I'm sorry youve had a hard day of it. It's such a rollercoaster...one minute we think we're doing fine, coming to terms and not being triggered and just when we think we have it nailed, it hits us like a truck again.
I know I've not had to experience this issues you have because we're not married and haven't lived together, but I do relate to the anger that bubbles up. For me my anger is coming from the injustice of it all, and aimed squarely at his perps. The way I've coped is to work hard on learning about sociopaths and how they function...its helped me to box the anger at their feet. I hope with all my heart he will one day be free from their influence. Oddly, since I've discovered so much from so many here about the effects of his abuse, I've found peace in that. No anger towards him...I used to be confused and feel so hurt by his going away, but now I just miss him...simple as that.
I'm not sure this is helping as I know my story is so different to yours. Just wanted to say, I'm sorry you're hurting. Something I regularly work on is meditation, everyday if I can. I let the emotions bubble up and cry, the tears literally just come out of nowhere, i don't latch on to the cause, i just let it come and it passes. One thing I have learnt about anger is the more we fixate on it, trying to make sense of it we stay stuck in that place...all the energy we put into being anrgy fuels its fire. At times I've needed to feel that anger to fire me on to find out more and more but in the end i realised it was only hurting me more, so I turned to meditation. I'm rambling alot! Hope this is of some help. Blessings HH

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#504660 - 12/08/16 12:42 PM Re: How not to get angry ... [Re: Observador]
WontGiveUp Offline


Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 218
Loc: Texas
HH - thanks so much! Yeah, our stories are a little different, but I dont think that the love we have for our survivors is all that different. :-)

That anger... yeah. I have a super big problem there. 90% of it is directed at the people who chose to abuse him and torture him. However, there is some of that anger that is laying right on him - and rightly so. CSA is not an excuse to behave in a bad way and to not have to be held responsible for that behavior. My husband is still very responsible for the choices he has made. Does he struggle in understanding emotionally some thing? Sure. But he also knows very clearly the difference from right and wrong and he makes the choice to act on whats easiest, most convienient, and what will satisfy his immediate need/want of the moment - regardless of the harm he causes me or anyone else (including his daughter and mother).

I think he is starting to learn that being like that only ends up hurting himself and causing him to be isolated (who wants to be around someone so selfish right? Someone who cares very little about how their actions and words affect you?). I think he is starting to learn now what so many of us learn as children - how to treat others as we want to be treated, how to put others first, how to practice kindness etc. His natural progression into maturity was robbed from him by monsters. So he is playing catch up, and honestly - I think he is FINALLY really starting to do it for real, for himself, under his own direction.

He has a ways to go - but at least he is on the right path it seems.

I think we as supporting partners have to be careful not to fall into the trap of being a doormat and excusing all the behavior as results of CSA. Thats not right either. It helps no one. I stated in another post how we much be supportive, understanding, patient and to be strong - but we still have to keep our boundries. Every book I have read stated that, and I am JUST now learning how to do that. Previously I accepted all that behavior as OK since he had been abused. I know better now - after years of mistakes. I dont have to accept that bad behavior, and I have a right to be angry and hurtful when he does things that are bad to me. Learning to strengthen my boundries has actually helped me to act from the perspective of love even more. Because I still do separate the behavior from the man - I can love and accept the man with out loving and accepting destructive behavior. Make sense?

I am to the point that I refuse to be a victim to any of this. I am not going to allow myself to be pulled down into a hole with no hope of getting out. I am working hard to rise up out of that hole, and am more than happy to have him choose to rise with me - make sense? But I cannot do it for him. :-)

LOL rambling again... self therapy? :-)

My husband is a better man than he believes. He is a stronger man than he realizes. He is a smarter man than he knows. But none of that matters until he can see it for himself. He will never see if if those who love him coddle him and dont hold him accountable.
_________________________
*** rising from the ashes like a phoenix ***

Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.

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#504671 - 12/09/16 05:28 AM Re: How not to get angry ... [Re: Observador]
HealingHope Offline


Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 243
hello my friend, I hope my post didnt feel patronising, I'm sorry if it oversimplified things. I've not had the difficulties you have WGU, the worst I've experienced is him pulling away. He's never treated me badly, and so of course you're right about boundaries and not being a doormat.

Understanding where the behaviour is coming from is only oneside of the coin, as you say we can't make them change, only they can do that for themselves, but the insights the survivors have shared here, I think shows the magnitude of just how hard those changes are.
Like you I've read so many books...searching for answers and the ones that have given me most of these answers are clinical books about trauma and recovery. I make the point that they are clinical because I've come to understand from them that the changes in a survivors brain that took place as a child IS clinical, it is not something that can be over-ridden easily.

Something I read the other day explained how developmental trauma and shock trauma, both of which my survivor has experienced and even as an adult experienced further shock trauma during our time together, is so hardwired into the survival brain, with literal gaps in memory because of the freeze response and dissociation, our survivors literally can't over-ride their survival responses without help, therapy and masses of courage and effort over time.

Like @victor-victim as said in another thread about pulling away, its takes effort, focus, commitment and above all courage. This is what has helped me let go of any frustration, about why my survivor left, but its taken me this last year to get here...and as you know I've been through every stage of loss, including anger( more frustration) of not being able to change things.
Writing these posts is hugely therapeutic because it helps me process my understanding.

One last thought... all the love in the world can not change someone's free-will and I've come to really come to terms with that. I love him so so deeply but I have to respect his free-will and trust that he knows what he needs. I miss him so so terribly but I know I can't fix this for him as much as i want to so much.

I'm so sorry your husband is struggling and the effects youre coping with, but it sounds like you are seeing some change, your love and patience must be part of that receipe, he's so lucky to have you by his side. HH

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#504677 - 12/09/16 10:37 AM Re: How not to get angry ... [Re: Observador]
WontGiveUp Offline


Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 218
Loc: Texas
HH - oh not at all!!!! Honestly things arent all that complicated, sometimes getting down to the simple basic facts of the matter is what is needed. :-)

I 100% agree with everything you said. Its absolutely their choice to do it, and they have to do it for themselves. We cannot force it, we cannot make it happen - hell even though we want to we cannot DO it for them. Recovery is on the victim's shoulders 100%. I think that helpless feeling is a huge problem for me. I am very much a "solver". Its actually what I do in my career because I am good at it. LOL I am tenacious too, I dont give up - like ever. Works great in my career, but in this specific situation - I am completely, totally and utterly helpless and can do NOTHING.

What I have decided to do is let go. Our therapist really put it well: My husband is in a dark hole. I went down in there with him to get him out, but every time we almost got to the surface, he let go because living in the light, living outside of that "familiar, dark hole" is very scary to him. Its something that he has never experienced. So down he would go, and down I would go to pick him back up again and carry him out. Carrying him was hard, and I cannot get out of the hole as long as I am pulling him along with me. He has to put in the effort if he wants out of the hole, no matter how hard I work to push/pull him out.

I think he is realizing that there is good outside the hole and is making his own baby steps to reach the surface. What I *CAN* do is encourage him on the way. I can let him know when he is about to hit a slippery spot since my perspective of the climb is the opposite of his. The light from above shines down and I can see the way clearly, but he is blinded by the light and the path is in shadows, full of dangers ready to make him fall again. I can also be there when he gets out....

Its the ONLY thing I can do.

And in the mean time, I am working on becoming the best me that I can. I am working on my anger, my fears, my own triggers etc. :-) I am planning a life that I will love, a life that will bring me happiness. I know that I have my own climb to make, which is in shadows, my own grief and hurt - and those who are further along can see it clearly where I cant. But to me the risk of that path up the mountain is worth it for the view at the top.

I know its probably dumb - but when I can look at things in allegorical sense, it helps me to place things. It helps me to accept things as they are. If it annoys you I am sorry !:-D I do try not to do it too much, but I think my therapist really helped me frame things that way. It also encourages me to take my own steps and not be fearful.

I really wish we could do more to help the survivors we love. He truly is making progress. I think that the the things he started doing a few months ago are starting to yield results. I hope that the backsliding he did doesnt harm the results he has now, I hope he finds a way to keep making strides to get out of the victim mode he has lived in for so long. It seems he is starting to realize in tiny flickers that his idea of what "being in control" is, is waaaaaay off the mark. His steps to resolve his lying - THAT is being in control. Owning what you do, owning his decisions... I think that is him starting to build his self respect.
_________________________
*** rising from the ashes like a phoenix ***

Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.

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#504678 - 12/09/16 11:07 AM Re: How not to get angry ... [Re: Observador]
HealingHope Offline


Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 243
Wgu I had to look allegorical up haha! Of course it doesn't annoy me! Hmm I must have sounded impatient, I am sorry. I love your imagery it's a great way to visualise and track our journey I think. I love the way you've described the dark hole & the different perspectives light brings. My survivor I sense is also in that hole. One of the survivors posted an amazing poem called dark and light, describing that very thing. Made me cry actually as did the poem he wrote today called feel my pain.
I'm like you, I like to fix and this is something we just can't, being the best we can is all we can do isn't it? Working on triggers, self care etc etc. We just have to keep going!!

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#504683 - 12/09/16 12:42 PM Re: How not to get angry ... [Re: Observador]
HealingHope Offline


Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 243
Just re re-read this :" I can let him know when he is about to hit a slippery spot since my perspective of the climb is the opposite of his. The light from above shines down and I can see the way clearly, but he is blinded by the light and the path is in shadows, full of dangers ready to make him fall again. I can also be there when he gets out...."
it's exactly what I hope with all my heart I can offer my survivor too. If only he'd come back. Thank you. Beautiful words.

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