Newest Members
jez, Long Way Home, Bcbornleo, Orko, molander
13593 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
coolcat (50), davids_wifey_xoxo (40), jjt (50), Kieran1 (65), terryj (61)
Who's Online
6 registered (Ceremony, manipulated, New47bliss, lapchinj, jboogz, 1 invisible), 21 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
13,593 Registered Members
75 Forums
70,683 Topics
493,693 Posts

Most users ever online: 418 @ 07/02/12 11:29 AM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#431317 - 04/15/13 05:42 PM HOW!?!
Magellan Offline

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 1598
Loc: California
I heard this yesterday, and I believe it to be true.

But I'm struggling with how to apply this to my OWN life.

"If you want to live in a state of connection, and you want to experience divinity in your life, then love and accept everything. Because that's how God and the divine loves." - Panache Desai

That's a great quote, and a brilliant way to live. But I have no idea how to apply this to my own life. For the 2 disabilities I was born with (severe hearing loss, and crossed eyes/double vision). These 2 disabilities have crippled my ability to relate to others.

Add to that the neglect at CSA I suffered while growing up with 2 disabilities.

The quote above tells me that I should love this, love the pain, love the trauma. How the hell do I accomplish this? How the hell do I love and accept trauma, pain and loneliness?


#431319 - 04/15/13 06:04 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
peroperic2009 Offline

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3864
Loc: South-East Europe
It is nice to be divine like God but we are poor humans with high spirits and weak bodies.
It is a little bit easier for me if I acknowledge that to myself from time to time, it would be even better if I could accept it in full wink
My story

#431332 - 04/15/13 07:10 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Jacob S Offline

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 699
Loc: where the shadows lie
I don't know. I don't even know if that's what you should be going for. I guess if it resonates with you than that means there is something in it that you should explore. But personally I don't agree with that quite. I'm not trying to argue it, just to say its not the only opinion. I don't think we have a problem accepting things. Between the CSA and your disabilities, I would bet money that you are already better at accepting the shittiness of life than most people. Absolutely learn to accept yourself. Absolutely learn when to step back, to pick your battles. But (and again this is just my opinion) there is real ugliness in the world and we should never learn to love or accept that. We should learn how to stand against it, to not let ourselves become obsessed with it or hurt by it, but never to love it. I've never met Desai so I can't speak about him, but the people I've met who claim to live a life of total acceptance really spend a lot of their life in denial of anything that is not inside their tightly controlled world. That's just been my experience though. I spent my childhood being told that I was to accept things and that fighting for my own needs was wrong. As an adult, I believe that I have to use my limited energy to pick my battles. But that would never mean I love and accept the evil things that happen.

I'm not trying to fight here, just to give an alternate view.
Nothing there. It subsumed me. Black hole in time and space.

And yet.

It seemed like what I was made for.

to be used.

most natural thing in the world.

#431333 - 04/15/13 07:56 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Jude Offline

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1633
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Magellan
I was born with (severe hearing loss, and crossed eyes/double vision)....Add to that the neglect at CSA I suffered while growing up with 2 disabilities.... The quote above tells me that I should love this, love the pain, love the trauma. How the hell do I accomplish this? How the hell do I love and accept trauma, pain and loneliness?

Suggestion: You can begin to love and find meaning in those disabilities and trauma by using them to help others. There is a world of people experiencing pain and loneliness who could benefit from what you have learned in your years of recovery

"The miracle is not that we do this work, but that we are happy to do it."
-Mother Teresa

I will remember you
Will you remember me?
Don't let your life pass you by
Weep not for the memories
Sarah McLachlan

#431336 - 04/15/13 09:03 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Chase Eric Offline

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 2955
The quote above tells me that I should love this, love the pain, love the trauma. How the hell do I accomplish this? How the hell do I love and accept trauma, pain and loneliness?

Hi, Magellan. I wonder if that may be putting a bit too literal a twist on the meaning. I think the message is about deeper truths - learning grace and acceptance for what you cannot change. It is about not becoming the "angry man," about avoiding the downhill emotional run into rage and indignation, becoming a monument to the betrayal of trust.

The way I interpret this is that we don't have to love and accept the betrayal itself. Acceptance does not mean we embrace it, or even wish for it, but that we still love and accept ourselves. And that anger over what we have no control over is futile. Again - just my interpretation.

I recently saw a PBS special about Richard Nixon - of all people to bring up here. But in his farewell address before he walked away from everything he was about - as he stepped down from from the pinnacle of his life to slide into obscurity and irrelevance, he said something similar:

Originally Posted By: Richard Nixon
Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.

Truth for me is this: the person who hurt me doesn't win unless my life becomes about him. That happens when I am angry. When I was molested, he was the wave that controlled me. The ripples of that abuse still travel as waves of anger - and I am still controlled by him when I choose to be driven by those waves. It's so simple, but it took me a long time to really understand that. So the quote by Panache Desai makes a lot of sense to me. For me, stepping away from anger can be the ultimate expression of self-empowerment. And it is a much nicer place to be.

There are very few times in my life that anger was a useful emotion. Many were the times it just added to the problems that caused the anger in the first place. One of the great paradoxes I have learned on my journey here is that indulgence in anger is far more justifiable than wise.

#431400 - 04/16/13 08:32 AM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Lancer Offline

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Leaning with Jacob and Chase on this one. fwiw, I'd be suspicious of someone like Desai who promotes himself as, "your friendly neighborhood enlightened being" and appears on Oprah.

Case in point, when I was diagnosed with HIV over 20 years ago, Louise Hay was all the rage among the HIV/AIDS community. She has some good ideas, sells lots of books and CDs. But, she often contradicts herself. She, for example, roundly criticizes those who say, "THIS is the only way," and then later says it about her own philosophies.

In short, I'd take Desai with a grain of salt. Take what you like and leave the rest. imo, a "spiritual" self-promoter like this is a setup for people like us. If I don't achieve the Nirvana this prophet espouses, well then, there must be something wrong with ME...and I'll just add that to my list of failures, not being good enough, etc. In my experience, there's been no shortcut for $12.95 in paperback or $24.95 with CD. (You may recall we had one of those charlatans here on MS several months ago).

Love the anger, pain and trauma? I suppose it made me more empathetic. But, no, I don't love it. It's quite literally taken me a lifetime to pick up the pieces, a bit like when I've put a broken ceramic flower pot back together. I'm good at it. I get a great deal of personal satisfaction being able to see it and use it again. But, if you look closely, the repairs are obvious.

As far as the "forgiving" rubbish, best I've ever been able to do is understand the dynamic of some of those abusive personalities who raised me. And, without hesitation I'll say I relish the schadenfreude - one of my favorite words - as the last of 'em reaps her own karma. And I didn't have to do a thing except walk away from it, as have the healthier, fed up members of what I'll call her former family. My step-sister, a survivor of spousal abuse, had a great quote that describes our feelings about the woman: "What a damn waste," which is a shorthand version of sadness that a woman with so many advantages and talents threw it all away practicing decades of selfishness, self-indulgence, shallowness and cowardice.

I believe, like many of us on MS or in 12-step programs, I've gained insight which I gladly share, whether or not anyone agrees with me. I won't achieve Desai's definition of Nirvana. His opinion does not define me or my recovery. I'm a work in progress and will remain so until I take my last breath.

#431413 - 04/16/13 01:28 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
lapchinj Online   content

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1485
Loc: New York
Hey Magellan,

I am not anti religion and I respect what other people believe so I hope this is not taken as a swipe at any religion. I must also say that I and my wife (really my wife) raised 6 religious kids and I find that I am still playing the religious guy in my community. Only my true friends know how I feel.

That said, I feel that those words are a bunch of crap. How am I a gay man, a prostitute and an infidel where who will go to hell and who is considered the lowest of the low be loved by god with all my religious disabilities. I see that my religious disabilities started at a very young age.

I hated my mother and father (still do). It says something about loving your mother and father or respecting them, but my mother beat me while my father never came to my rescue, he sat and read his books while I was beaten.

I should "Love thy neighbor" who took thousands of pictures of me and her brother. Sold those pictures to anyone willing to buy them. Sold them to all those boy magazines that were sold on the streets of NYC in all the newsstands in the '60s which are now all on the world wide web.

Where was god for the kids while the rabbis of my religion helped to protect the perps while the the children were raped, molested and abused and the families intimidated with excommunication not to talk. mad
Where was god for the kids while while the priests of the catholic church raped, molested and abused all those kids? Where they used alter boys as sacrifices to those perp priests. Where were the heads of the church? mad
Where was god for me while I was used by johns and a couple of janes for 7 years? mad
Where was god for me when I started to stick those needles in my arm at 14 so I could have a little R&R? mad
Where was god for me while this list goes on and on and on? mad mad mad

I don't think that this is the way for god and the devine to love. I tried to believe in that god for 37 years. I walked the walk and talked the talk but I finally realized that I left god in bed the first time I was with a john when I was 12, some 50 years ago.

My kids are religious and my grandchildren are religious and I guess they believe in god but I am suffering by my disabilities. That is not the love I wanted. The love I wanted I finally found here at MS where we are all suffering from various disabilities. But we are all trying to heal from the disability of csa. You are my true friends and loves.

I know that I am being harsh but I do respect other's beliefs that god has brought them through their horrors and they love him. I helped my wife teach my kids to love god. I sometimes wish I could find that love in my religion but that's not to be. This is only my rant against my religion of birth and not my religion of choice. I have no hate against anyone or any belief on this earth, but I have no love either.

Sorry frown.

Peace, Rainbows, Love & Healing
Stick around, It will get better....🌹🌹🌹

#431420 - 04/16/13 02:02 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
cant_remember Offline

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1070
(((((( Magellan ))))))

We have been given this terrible experience to bear in our lives. Why it happened or how it happened is not for us to know. Either it's part of some cosmic plan, or the universe is a cruel and vicious place.

The idea that our struggles in life are divinely inspired gives us hope that we can learn from them in a way that brings us closer to God. Of course, that could all be bullshit and just another lie we tell ourselves to keep us going through the motions.

((((( Jeff ))))) You have every right to feel abandoned by God, but please don't feel abandoned by us, your brothers.

I don't have answers, just hugs.

I'll be just fine and dandy
Lord, it's like a hard candy Christmas
I'm barely getting through tomorrow
But I won't let sorrow get me way down.

#431422 - 04/16/13 02:12 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
bodyguard8367 Offline

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""

Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/27/14 03:56 AM)

#431424 - 04/16/13 02:28 PM Re: HOW!?! [Re: Magellan]
Magellan Offline

Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 1598
Loc: California
Thanks for all your responses and input, guys.

I have to find a way to stop being angry about being born with disabilities, and I have to find a way to stop being angry about being born as a result of rape.

This anger is going to destroy me, like it has already destroyed my life this far.

"love" and "acceptance" keep popping up over and over and over, and I have no idea how to do this with regards to the shitty life I've been forced to live because of other people's choices.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.