So after acknowledging the legitamcy of my same sense attractions it's kind of caused a spiral effect. For the first time I started to really notice guys in person and that was a sort of awakening. I try very hard to just accept for whatever reasons I have the attractions I have but truthfully it would be nice to know exactly why and exactly who I am.
My attractions to women never seemed on the same level as those around me, I'd be turned on by maybe one woman for every 100 my brothers and friends seemed to be turned on by.
I don't particularly recall my heart skipping a beat for guys I'd seen in person-until now but even then it's not a high percentage out of the guys I see. Until this point it had been exclusively focused on sexual acts. But for as long as I can remember men and sex with men has occupied probably 99% percent of my fantasies.
So I start accepting that these attractions were there and they pretty much started taking over my every thought. I began to notice my attraction to women as slight as it's been diminishing and started to do all this research in regards to coming out...within this process I started to read some things from Joe Kort and just when I was thinking I'd finally come to some clarification in who I am all the same old questions kicked in...and it's back to the What the hell am I?
I've been researching about sexuality being fluid which is a notion I can see but then that leaves other questions like how do I live truly to myself-the only answer seems to be to come out-to try and see if I can form an emotional connection with a man..but then that leads to the thought of well what if I go through that whole process and then bam my sexuality starts to swing the other way....
Now on top of the noticing guys in a different light since accepting the attractions there are somethings that I've remembered over the past few weeks that kind of solidify the thoughts as I remember them being before any abuse even occurred like passionately kissing a boy when I was 5 or 6 and my dad telling me that thats "not how boys kiss boys". He wasn't angry about it or a dick about it but I do clearly remember him saying that.
Then there are other things that I remember that I'm not so sure if they were before the abuse, during or after it. Like how I used to make my G.I Joe's have sex lol theres not much straight about that.
It's all so frustrating..
So my question to any of you primarily those that are out-did all the questioning stop when you started to embrace your orientation?
What in your mind made you sure that this was your natural orientation and not some result of the abuse?
One maybe different thing is for me was that while I fought the thoughts and fantasies for years I never once thought it had anything to do with the abuse I'd suffered until I stumbled across this site...
Then once I started reading stories that pointed to the abuse causing confusion-I went "that must be it" and then after reflection it's felt that that doesn't fit very well to me.
I keep looking for an easy answer to tell me clearly who I am but I know that isn't realistic...I am working everyday on accpeting myself regardless of the realisation I come to..
I tortured myself with huge amounts of guilt and shame over it all...wondering if I was gay or straight...but you see, it doesn't matter who you love. Just so long as they love you back.
Thank you for the well thought out response! This is pretty much the point I'm trying to get to-and just when I seem to get there some roadblock is thrown up.
When I started to remember things from my youth-things that would confirm a natural orientation geared towards men it felt good..it was another one of those "there it is!" moments and I felt a huge weight off my shoulders.
Then within 24 hours I recalled an episode I had in my eary twenties where I'd had this insane need to be penetrated-and searched like a maniac from some sort of object to do the trick..the memory of that hit me with a "oh shit that's not healthy" and then all the work towards acceptance flew out the window.
A part of the problem for me I think is that I've never explored the attractions in a particulary healthy manner. A drunken hook up, a random hook up but nothing healthy.
As nervous as I've been I'm working on pushing the boundaries with this and have met a guy-been talking for awhile online and developed a friendship with a newly out gay guy. In the past I've done this and than chickened out...I think I need to push myself to develop a real life friendship here and see where it goes...
I recognise the general issues within society that have likely put up road blocks for me outside of the CSA such as not see a place where I belong in the community etc
Then there are other things that I remember...Like how I used to make my G.I Joe's have sex lol theres not much straight about that.
OMG...never thot of that with MY GI Joes. Excellent. Did they ever invite Ken? Jus' askin'...
You bring up your heart "skipping a beat". I think that was my first clue...when I was in fifth grade and had a crush on a guy who sat in front of me in class. It continued into high school where he had some hot friends - like the T-Birds in "Grease" without the grease, but with ambiguous sexual orientation - and I desperately wanted to be part of that clique, but I was too nerdy. But, I knew.
My CSA was partially the result of abusive parents who wanted to "fix" me. In my desperation to have someone know about their abusiveness and to connect with other gay kids I was referred to the guidance counselor perp who abused me for a year. But that was decades ago...and, no, my CSA DIDN'T make me gay. However, being gay and abused made me a target for the perp. All the more reason, imo, for gay kids today to have the resources available for their protection.
As a young adult, yeah, I TRIED a couple relationships with women (even went to bed with one). But it didn't feel as though I connected. With one, she complained I never shared my feelings (go figure)...while she was also fucking one of my friends. Another was on a ship where I worked, but I was also messing around with "straight" passengers. Later, one boss commented he understood I was "sensitive". At the same time, though I enjoyed being around gay nightlife, I felt I never really fit (again). I recognize that some of it, too, was typical 20-something angst.
What finally connected in my late 20s was joining a group of gay-oriented 12-step meetings. I think what happened was I started to feel a sense of community with people who were...people. Today, many years later, one of 'em is still a best friend. I became completely comfortable in my own skin.
If I had to summarize, Irish, I'd say it wasn't just one man on which I was focused. It was a community and, yes, variety of people in that community. I could be as "gay" as I wanted to be...or not. But it didn't matter to them. They accepted me as I was. Took me a while, but I learned it was okay to jettison the facades I'd built up and even talk about the facades. As the facades came down, I used them less and less...even in the outside world. I cared less about what others thot of me because I knew I always had the support of a community "the others" didn't know about and didn't understand. My ace in the hole.
It felt like, "You can put me down because you have the perception I'm a 'typical' lonely and isolated fag, but I'm not. I have friends. So THERE."
I left behind my fiancee to find out what was behind my interest in men and male anatomy.
After about 7 years, I felt pretty sure it was not going to work for me as a primary relationship.
Maybe I never met the "right guy" maybe I was just not ready.
Social pressure was definitely NOT a factor in my case. Out to everyone, no issue there.
But the nagging sense of life purpose (and not an insatiable sexual desire for women) brought me back to my wife 7 years ago.
I have sexual blocks with women. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm gay. I think I sexualized men because I felt male deficient and was trying to prove that I could make my mom (yeah I went there) satisfied.
Long story short.
God love you for hashing it all out with us.
I'm not done either!
PS if you are looking for a safe place to come out and really get support with that, I think this is a great place to do it!
I am no closer to figuring it out or who I am and it continues to frustrate me. In my mind I can make a clear rational argument for the ssa being a result of the abuse but then I can make an argument just as rational for that not being the only/sole reason for it.
So I fight to just accept that for whatever the reason it's there-it is. I'll get online and chat with local guys and find someone who seems compatible, chat endlessly and then when it's got to the point where meeting is the next logical step I chicken out. Then I'll go for a period of time (shorter as the years pass by) where I don't chat, look at porn and then the cycle will repeat.
My attraction to women is very slight at the moment but I've felt that way before then I'll meet someone and the attraction to women in general will increase. Whether it's an orientation issue or not I've had roadblocks with women my entire life. I'm a decent looking guy, out going, funny etc and never had a problem attracting women but even then my experience has been limited and my general out look is vastly different from any straight guy I know.
So ya the cycle continues...I just continue to work within myself on accepting me as a whole...it gets to be a lonely existence but this place helps with that a little.
Irish, because you are survivor you will always have troubles to make sexual contact with new guy... So take it easy, chat as long as possible, make gay friends, go out with them... and when you find someone interesting do not rush it.
Great conversation, Irish. To me it's especially interesting because only a few years ago, right here, there was a lot of real angst about SSA and if the discussion included Reparative Therapy seemed like everyone would be offended one way or the other and an online brawl would ensue. Bam! before you knew it discussion CLOSED! Today, you guys are having an intelligent, respectful conversation, very honest, very insightful, non-shaming and no drama! What a change from the past, which itself wasn't that long ago. What a breath of fresh air! All you guys, THANKS for sharing and for your refreshing, healthy openness, it's certainly made my day!
Gary / 1.healing
"It's never too late to be what you might have been."
There will be no certainty until there is certainty. I had the exact same issues, attracted but really terrified. Met an amazing woman the mother of my children but somehow I was never there. Why couldn't I get with the program.
It was only after really being with a guy, I summoned the courage to meet a man and after the experience, I knew I was not bi. Finally told my wife, years of tears, and pain and therapy and confusion ( one T said if I was just 2% str8 I needed to stay). more T ( my ex got a guy that specialized in male CSA) and that really changed things. Compassion for myself and my ex and my frozen little boy.
Baby steps at dating were not easy cuz I am an old teenager, missed all the batting practice. It was only when I decided to give up dating and just " hang out" no sex intended or on the table just meet another nice gay guy. We met at the gym, I was getting a sip of water, he looked across, smiled and winked and my heart did a backflip. I tried to be cool as I said goodnight, we kissed just a friendly really, but we looked in each others eyes and then we kissed. It was like the movies, honestly an instant inferno and we have now been together 8 months.
Go slow the others are right, we missed the orientation part of the exercise about orientation( pun intended). So ya we are awkward but that's what makes us charming. In terms of knowing if it was us or the CSA, some clues:
These are indicators that a kid would have been or will be likely gay. 1. eyes. do you look at men more. studies show that mens eyes will dialate more when attracted to the same sex. women were horny for both aka more fluid sexuality THE EYES HAVE IT ! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22870196
2. Gender non conformity. You did what? yup you playing with GI moes was definitely a tell. Turns out gender non conformity was also identified as a predictor for less well being later in life, go figure. I actually told my parents I was a "tomgirl" around my 8th birthday. wtf? also occasionally put on my moms dresses, but not into drag now for some reason ( I went the other way and hypermasculinized) and I also learned to cook and took gymnastics so I can flex and bend in ways that is completely inappropriate.
This also makes us at greater risk for abuse(the non conformity not the gymnastics), and later PTSD http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/02/ptsd/ Men who ranked in the top 10th percentile of childhood gender-nonconformity reported a higher prevalence of sexual and physical abuse before age 11 and psychological abuse between ages 11 and 17 compared with those below the median of nonconformity. I was 11. He knew.
3. MEMORIES, streisand does it to us everytime. Old study found that most str8 boys played it str8 as children, and the gays not so much.http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF01542255.pdf
5.As a kid who did you hang out with? I kissed a lot of girls when I was in grade 2 cuz I hung out with them at recess as much as I did with boys. oh and I was always robin to someone's batman, I actually just remembered that. this scientific American report says yup, by age two some of this is set. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beri...al-orientation/
6. You were a less likely to play team sports. I was a sporty kid but hated soccer, lacrosse, and hockey our national sport, go figure. But I excelled in ping pong, tennis and later volleyball and basketball where man to man defense was kind of fun. I actually remember a coach egging me on to stay on my check like stink. More gay men are into individual sports like wrestling, swimming etc ( my friend's son only dresses as princesses or some other drag shit or wrestlers in singlettes for Halloween - hmm? )however, two of my buddies and my bf said rugby helped them with the male bonding and touching in a acceptable forum. My bf said he just realized in his later 20's that he wasn't looking at his gf in the stands anymore, just the boys.
7. Controversy warning, a few reports have suggested and I think it will come as no surprise to anyone here that for males but not females that early childhood sexual abuse correlates with greater homosexual activity as an adult. IT STILL DOES NOT MEAN IT IS A CHOICE, just that there may be stronger imprinting with fetishes, paraphilias. I am strongly am attracted to men who really smell like men, I hate cologne, my partner knows not to use deodorant. My abuser never bathed much, my T said it is likely a contributing factor. When I was married, sex was a well scrubbed event. It did not trigger any of the same centers in my brain.
8. "I am big , its the pictures that got small". Any home movies or pictures will often reveal gender nonconformity in a prehomosexual that is evocative of what happens in later life. We were better actors from an early age, then we had to be later on. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18194004
Hope this helps, its not absolutely conclusive of course, but the preponderance of evidence is that if you have homosexual feelings now, you likely did then. For me , I know the CSA repressed all that. So at 50+ its all so new but honestly all so wonderful. God I love to shop.
Good luck irish be yourself, your all you've got baby steps and then who knows? but not exploring is not being true to your potential self.
but its like Sheldon said about Schrodinger's cat. you can't know til you open the box
Edited by 1lifenow (08/13/1306:38 PM)
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama
Much of that does resonate. I may be unrealistic at this point in time to be longing for some sort of conclusive answer that's why I'm trying to focus on overall acceptance no matter what. I read something like this and it makes sense, but then I lay with a female friend last night and was completely aroused.
I try to stick around here and read and ask questions even when the subject isn't occupying every single thought because I truly don't want to be stuck in the same cycle years from now...Logically I know I need to get out of my head and experience life more as these aren't questions anyone can answer for me but it's all easier said then done.
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