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#413497 - 10/18/12 01:41 PM They just don't freakin get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus

Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 2614
Loc: Central PA

As a followup to the fact that I just get the run around with my local crisis center about getting men's groups going and continually being put off with a "sorry we were too busy this month but we'll make it a priority next month" excuse....

I reached out a PCAR (Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape).

I explained about my struggles with the local center and even mentioned MalesSurvivor and Big Voice Pictures and their programs etc to raise awareness.

I'd given up on them because I contacted them weeks ago....

Today I FINALLY get an email and get this:
I am so sorry to hear about your experience with your local rape crisis center. I would love to speak with you more about their response to you asking for help/resources. Please feel free to give me a call so that we can discuss this.

In the meantime, we’ve just updated our “Engaging Men as Allies” webpage on the larger PCAR website.

So I'm hopeful right??? Right??? Read that first paragraph! Sounds good right???

So I go and look up the page she recommended....

Every bloody link is to a program and/or resource that's focus is about "changing men" in order to decrease violence against women.

You know, because "we're" the cause of it all and only WE can stop it...

What utter BULLSHIT.

I am so freaking sick and tired of organizations pretending to help but really not giving a shit or really getting it.

I TOTALLY plan on calling this woman back, but I will have to calm WAY down before I do.

#413499 - 10/18/12 01:48 PM Re: They just don't freakin get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: JustScott]
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2669
Loc: durham, north england
Oh charming! though I must admit when I heard "men as allies" I was a little worried so I'm not entirely surprised.

statements like that that make me want to go and write about my own experiences as a male victim of female sa.

Credit to you though Scot for actually going out there and telling the truth, that is a fantastic job.

indeed, i'll confess the reason I am reluctant to write about male victimization is that I would find so many of the contrasting articals would just make me angry! so this says a lot about you and what your doing.

Yes, people are ridiculously stupid about this, there is no other way of saying it, which is again why it's such a great thing when someone actually tells the truth.

Edited by dark empathy (10/18/12 01:50 PM)

#413500 - 10/18/12 01:58 PM Re: They just don't freakin get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: JustScott]
WVguy Offline

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 18
Loc: Upstate New York
DE I am in the same boat as you, the few people I have mentioned to that my abuser was a female tend to react with the same thing "Can a man really be raped by a woman?" And it pisses me off to no end. I know the feelings I have and the emotions I deal with are the same as them, but I am supposed to be a big strong man, and that can't possibly happen to me right? WRONG!!!

I think that is one of the hardest things for me to deal with, men can be victims in this and the only way to change that perception is information

#413501 - 10/18/12 02:00 PM Re: They just don't freakin get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: JustScott]
cant_remember Offline

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1070
I've had similar experiences before. I totally get where you're coming from.

When I was T-shopping a few weeks back, I ventured into my local Center for Women and Families (read: Center for everyone but men) and got a similar, but not quite as dismissive, response.

I'm still trying to get a group session started up in my area through my new T, but it's gone nowhere yet. MS has been so important to me in my recovery process that I feel a real need for in-person group work that is just not offered for men in most places.

Once when I was in college in New England, I was in line at the student-center bank to cash a check and this girl behind me in line said to her friend, "I just turned in my paper on how all men are responsible for rape, but I don't think I'll get a good grade on it because my TA is a white male."

This was years before I would begin my recovery, before I even knew what was wrong with me, but it triggered me hard. I would use that line as fodder for jokes, but the truth is A) it really hurt me to hear that, and B) it is not an uncommon sentiment among women who think they are enlightened. Also C), it's total bullshit.

And yet, this is the reality we face. It's a two-edge sword. On the one hand, we as male survivors owe feminism a great deal for breaking the silence on child sex abuse that led to our ability to begin to heal in public and together. On the other hand, some of those women think anyone with a dick is a potential rapist, and those women are either dangerously solipsistic or just completely clueless.

It's good that you thought to calm down first before calling back. That shows you're aware of your feelings. Keep us posted on how it goes.
I'll be just fine and dandy
Lord, it's like a hard candy Christmas
I'm barely getting through tomorrow
But I won't let sorrow get me way down.

#413507 - 10/18/12 02:53 PM Re: They just don't freakin get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: JustScott]
whome Offline

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
HI Scott
Im reading this and laughing at the insanity of it all. I mean what a way to go? Generalize then why don't they.

I know exactly how you feel, every one sees men as the perpetrators and not as victims. Why on earth can we not work together???

I had the same just trying to get a room to hold meetings, when you mention male survivors their eyes glaze over and they start to back pedal.
Well Finally we have a place at a highly respected mental health facility, and boy it took a year to organize. I think that the guy I eventually asked might have had a similar experience because his answer was immediate and boy the ball got rolling.
So NEVER give up, it take persistence to get the thing going, now if only the men would come to the meeting hehehehe.

Heal well
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

#413508 - 10/18/12 03:02 PM Re: They just don't freakin get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: JustScott]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus

Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 2614
Loc: Central PA
I talked to a guy on another site (one for addictions) and he said when he contacted his local crisis center looking for groups for sexual abuse victims, he was first forced to attend a group for men who abused women before he could attend one for sexual abuse victims. Despite the fact that he has never hurt anyone.

Didn't matter to them, it was a prerequisite for any male that wanted help. Yet another fine example of double standard bullshit. I'd guarantee they don't have a similar requirement for women or even a program for "women" abusers.

#413510 - 10/18/12 03:13 PM Re: They just don't freakin get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: JustScott]
Obi Offline

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1634
Loc: kansas

i agree with everything that has been posted.....

but, i have to add in my $1.50 here...

the thing that is tough for a lot of us to remember is that we are really at the beginning here with regards to male sexual abuse....

there isn't a whole lot of resources... there is a lot of myths and misunderstandings going around...

i know that it makes it difficult for us to get through our own issues, but also have to teach as well...

it's like being the student and teacher at the same time...

we are in a very TOUGH situation, but it's also a good situation...

we become the pioneers in this area... we are the explorers for our cause... we are the ones that have to get resources out there, change the myths and misunderstandings... we are in the position of having to make these changes for future males that will go through this... to make it easier for them....

it's not easy... it's a lot of hurt, pain, disappointment, etc... but our rewards will not only be our recovery of our issues we suffer through, but to also create the paths for others behind us to make it easier for them...

guys, we are the trailblazers... we are the ones that will have to create the groups, create resources and so on...

it is up to us!!! we can do it! let's be the pioneers for the others down the road that will need it!
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

#413513 - 10/18/12 04:04 PM Re: They just don't freakin get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: JustScott]
Still Offline

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 7011
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Yes we ARE trailblazers, but wouldn't it be nice if conventional thoughts already accepted or accommodated us?

I'm down to nearly zero friends from "the old-days." Jerry and I were reserve cops together at 18yo, and have been good friends ever since. I never disclosed to him until 2007. Then I learned that his nephew was regularly sexually abused by his Jerry's sister's revolving door of boyfriends, losers, druggies and transients whom she brought home constantly. She even knew about these guys having their way with him and did nothing. Today, he's totally fkd in the head.

So I've been helping Jerry to help his nephew through "CSA enlightenment" and decay of the myths. I thought he was truly "getting it." Its been YEARS of discussion and education while I've been suffering through my own stuff. I share the books and articles that I think would help him understand survivors.

A few weeks ago, Jerry and I were talking about CSA and his nephew, when out of the blue he asked, " you even like women?"

Honestly, I don't think "they" will ever "get it."

Edited by Still (10/18/12 04:06 PM)

#413514 - 10/18/12 04:19 PM Re: They just don't freakin get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: JustScott]
Obi Offline

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1634
Loc: kansas
understood, still....

it's tough, VERY TOUGH, to be the trailblazers....

i'm with you in that i wish conventional thoughts were already accepted and accommodating...

but, at the moment, it isn't because we're at the beginning of changing those myths and misunderstandings...

so, for help and support we have to turn to each other here in the trenches... we have to help each other get through this while we're blazing the trail....

hate to say it, but i'm believing, that it'll be another generation that takes what we started, and really creates the revolution of turning things around...

but it all has to start somewhere and that's where we are at.. we're at the start...

i know a lot of what you have done, still, and i applaud your efforts... it can be disheartning and draining at times... but that is why we have each other here.. others that understand and can give support... lean on your brothers here, still... we're all in this together.
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

#413519 - 10/18/12 05:25 PM Re: They just don't freakin get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: JustScott]
GT13568 Offline

Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 184
Loc: California, 93451
Wow - I am sorry you are being given such a rough time, JustScott! People in positions like that should NOT be so difficult and unhelpful.

I agree with the sentiment of this thread that it is BS to say all men are perps, and also with Obi that here we are trailblazers in men surviving and thriving after abuse, and therefore I want to say THANK GOD FOR THE INTERNET because without Male Survivor I know for sure I would still be crying in my sleep, afraid to be touched, angry at the past and suffering.

Even in a large city like Los Angeles, I have had difficulty finding any group with the quality of sharing that I find here. Nothing against the ones I have tried - they simply did not work for me. So I check in at MS almost every day to read and sometimes to share.

Part of succeeding is finding new ways. I find something beautiful and liberating about us finding our way in this struggle, without an institutional leadership that defines its group through exclusion, and through gender politics.

I like us. What I find here are individuals who are willing to listen and attempt to help, or offer advice for where to go. I never hear a "Go away."

We're nice.
I won the moment he hurt me, because he poisoned his soul, and I did not poison mine. I did not hurt anyone. He did. He was the perp. He tried to make me into a victim, but I became a survivor. Yes.

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