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#41164 - 04/27/05 11:11 PM Complexity of relationships (MAY TRIGGER!)
crisispoint Offline

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
I'm not really sure if I'm proud of myself or more f**ked up than ever.

My father's been in and out of the hospital for the past few weeks. For those who know, I won't belabor, but for those who don't he was an emotionally abusive prick when I was a boy and I'm more than pretty sure the damage he did set me up for the SA I went through later on.

Now, I've forgiven him for this stuff, and I'm even at the point where I care for him. There will probably never be the love that a fully developed son would have with a fully nurturing father. I thought I was past all of this, but I was visiting him last night and he started crying. He's done more of that in recent years. This of course brings up a flood of emotions - I care about him, he deserves a little misery, no one deserves this, I wish I could feel more for him, this is the man I hated for so long....

You can see how complex this is.

So many emotions. Add to this my brother, the "golden boy," is coming in from Florida to visit with him and probably discuss what happens next.

His relationship was as stormy in it's own way as mine was, but he was always held up as the "gold standard" of masculinity. One I'd never measure up to because I was an intellectual, sensitive, etc.

So, yeah, I'm bitter. And I'm not.

I don't know where this is heading, but I wanted to get it out and see if anyone has felt this way toward abusive parents and older brothers.

I'm tired and burned out. I'm trying to deal with this well, but I'm afraid I won't.

But I still find things to laugh at, and materials for "picks o' the week"..... :p

Thanks for anyone who responds. I could use the help.

Peace and love,


There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

#41165 - 04/28/05 07:36 AM Re: Complexity of relationships (MAY TRIGGER!)
FLRich Offline

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404

Buddy, about the only thing I can say is that I'm sorry you are having to deal with these issues with your father.

My father was never abusive to me. He really was nothing to me or my brother. He had his own agenda in life. Still does. We never have been very prominent on that agenda. He was in the area this week and stopped by to see me. I was surprised, but after 5 minutes I was wondering, "When will he ever go home?" I felt guilty for those thoughts, of course, but the more I think about it, I think about that saying, "You can pick your friends, but not your family." Why would I want a man who has probably spent no more than a week of his life on me during my entire 48 yrs, to spend more than 5 minutes for a visit? He tells about 4-5 crude jokes, asks how I'm doing, the wife, the kids, and leaves. This is a man that I know at any time will give me money, the shirt off of his back, anything, except his time. My brother knows this too, so there is no sibling rivalry between us. I can truly say that Dad treated my brother and I as equals.

I'm still sorry you have to deal with this Scot, but I hope that maybe you and your father can develop some sort of an understanding relationship. He needs to know what a super, caring, and supportive son he has there with him. (I'm talking about you, my man, not your brother \:\) )

#41166 - 04/28/05 09:00 AM Re: Complexity of relationships (MAY TRIGGER!)
DannyT Offline

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 645
Hi Scot,

I just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear about the tough times. My dad was also a problem. And I was the Golden Boy in his eyes, whereas my poor sister was the brunt of disfavor.

All I can say is "we each got it bad, and I'm honestly not sure which was worse".

Sometimes being the Golden Child just means getting way more unwanted attention than you ever dreamed of having. I pretty much hated my Dad, whereas I think my sister is a little more ambivalent. Weird.


#41167 - 04/29/05 08:37 PM Re: Complexity of relationships (MAY TRIGGER!)
ForeverFighting Offline

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1253
Loc: New Mexico, USA
The more I reply to your posts, the more I see how similar our situations were and are.

My dad was horrible. "An emotionally abusive prick." I couldn't have said it better myself. And between him and my mother of stone, I know that's why I was an easy target for my uncle. My dad had surgery for cancer a couple of years ago. I went to the hospital, but wouldn't speak to him. What kind of sense does that make? I try to have a relationship with them, they apologize, hug me, send me cards, and I want them out of my life forever. My sister was the golden child. Every false accusation she's ever thrown my way, they've jumped on it like it was the gospel. Oh, and don't even get me started on the "gold standard of masculinity". That was my dad, the track and field marvel, basketball, soccer, you name it. I played piano, wrote poetry, and starved for love.

It's the eternal struggle. We hate them, but feel for them. It's been suggested to me so many times at this site to just dump them, I have no responsibility to abusive people who won't change and continue to hurt me emotionally. But I can't do that. And I don't know why.

I don't know if there is an answer to this one. Hang in there, Scot. PM me anytime if you need. At least we can gripe about our families to each other, huh?


"This search for the truth--it's not for the faint of heart."--Goren on 'Law & Order: CI'
"The former things will not be called to mind, nor will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17

#41168 - 04/29/05 09:19 PM Re: Complexity of relationships (MAY TRIGGER!)
LostinPA Offline

Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 120
Loc: Lancaster, PA
I identify with you too. My father was one of many of my abusers. He was a sex offending, violent, "emotionally abusing prick" all right. As for the conundrum of having no feelings. Well, after the courts took us away from him I never saw my fuc_ec dad for 42 years. Well, last month I was called to say he was dying. I flew in to see him, don't ask me why because I havn't even started to look at that one. I had no feelings one way or the other for him. I couldn't talk about what he did to me because when I got there he was in a coma. He died. I felt nothing at his viewing, I showed no emotion when gretting his family now totally unkown to me. Yet when the service began, I broke down weeping so violently not out of love for him but for having no feelings for my father as I should have been "allowed" to have. It is hard to come to terms with emotionless feelings that you wish you had or should have had and don't. I feel for you. Maybe try to see him in his person and not as part of your abusive past and just think "poor old man". No, fu_k that. If you don't feel anything you don't. That is okay. Maybe, life is trying to say, it's okay how you feel. Good luck Scot, I know this is tough.


#41169 - 04/29/05 09:19 PM Re: Complexity of relationships (MAY TRIGGER!)
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821


#41170 - 04/29/05 10:30 PM Re: Complexity of relationships (MAY TRIGGER!)
ForeverFighting Offline

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1253
Loc: New Mexico, USA
I was supposed to be a girl, but unfortunately I was born with a penis. Sorry, Dad.
How can that be so true, painful, and funny all at the same time? I can just imagine my dad seeing me for the first time. "Oh rats. The stupid baby has a penis." So he punishes me the rest of my life for his erroneous chromosomal rumble in the back seat of a car. grrrr. Add another one to true, funny, and painful. It makes me angry. Thus we're back to where we were. How can I feel anything for that jerk? Band, painting, musician, writing--I'm seeing a pattern as to what jerk dads want and don't want in their penis-prone offspring. They want clones, not individuals with artistic talent and brains. If they're going to all the trouble to have boys, the least they could have are "real boys". Give me a break.

I choose any man here with half a heart over the testoerone-pumped, brainless boys our dads were hoping for. We're better than our dads. And to everyone who's replied here, you're definitely a better man that your dad will ever be. We're here asking questions at an age when our dads already knew everything.

OK, venting over. Back to how we deal with our parents today. And I'm still coming up a blank on that one.

"This search for the truth--it's not for the faint of heart."--Goren on 'Law & Order: CI'
"The former things will not be called to mind, nor will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17

#41171 - 04/30/05 02:17 AM Re: Complexity of relationships (MAY TRIGGER!)
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Scot, it is hard to not like a father, even though some people went through so much crap with their dads. Fathers are supposed to be nurturing towards their kids and someone to look up to and be proud of.
After the a**se I went through, I became daddies golden boy, but it gets even more complex, because my older brother cause me so much mental pain, it is unbelievable when I look back.
I love my brother and he really gets upset when I talk to my younger brother, cos nobody talks to him, but it upsets me cos I love him, even after so much pain.
I became a man at 10, I lost everything, but this is not about me, it is so complex this issue.
You nurture your dad because he is your dad.
Maybe he cries in thinking just how bad he was, and wondering why you care so much.
My dad made mistakes by making me number one son, and at one time my behaviour drove him out, for maybe two weeks, but I worried to Hell where he go, cos, I know what he went thru, and this is part of the fault and guilt thing.
My dad was overprotective, and he stopped me from having space, because I run away from it all, but I always came back.
Parents worry about their kids, or so they should, but I remember my dad saying one thing to me, and that is, why do you go away so long? And I tell him, but he automatically thought I was going with some man.
It is powerful to forgive, it can cause so much hurt to not do, and as for the apology thing that keeps cropping up here, apology is only a gesture, it is empty and unrewarding, because it can never make up for past emotions.
I spend all my life saying sorry, huh, yeah, I do, I am sick of the word.
You as good as your brother could ever be, and richness is in fulfillment of life, and not what you think youve got.
Maybe we start a thread on identifying what richness really means, like we just feel fulfilled in our lives, cos, that is what we must ultimately be meant for.

hey dont mean to go on,


Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#41172 - 04/30/05 03:19 AM Re: Complexity of relationships (MAY TRIGGER!)
RICK57 Offline

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Scot - it sounds like you are being the parent, which is difficult when you should be the kid. I think that shows that you have inner strength that maybe you don't recognise in yourself.

You brother 'golden boy' - does he think he is golden boy? He might just be as pissed off as you are at being compared against each other.

Whatever you do, make sure you keep finding things to laugh at.

Best wishes ..Rik

*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!


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