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#407962 - 08/26/12 10:29 AM Re: Expectations & Rasing the Bottom [Re: Haps]
Lancer Offline

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Hi Haps --

As a survivor I don't know if this helps since my expectations are usually more focused on events and outcomes than people, though they don't cancel each other out. My red flag is if I'm focused on a particular outcome. And it's still a conscious effort to let go of those expectations. Takes practice.

I think what has helped me often is when the unexpected happens and it turns out better than anything my little brain could have imagined. I don't have a crystal ball. I don't have the benefit of knowing all the contingencies which can conspire towards an end.

As someone pointed out, there are expectations that are reasonable...i.e., in the States we drive on the right and expect others will do the same. Even then, things happen. Perhaps it's simply acknowledging that I'm not in charge of everything.

#408040 - 08/27/12 02:28 AM Re: Expectations & Rasing the Bottom [Re: Obi]
Haps Offline

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Wow... definitely a lot of wisdom in these replies! Thanks so much! A lot to take it, but I didn't want to leave the contributions unrecognized. It's quite helpful.

Obi - Thanks a bunch. I'm not sure I expect my fish to climb a treat any more than he would expect his house cat to do long division.

Esposa - I think you're on to something for me. I've said and seen around here about living on scraps. I've been all too happy to do it. No victim this round, honestly, just myself being honest with myself. I stayed.

Traveler - I'm jealous. You seem to have a relationship that incorporates a great deal of respect and mutual-adoration, especially through the tougher moments. Communication is key, but I often find myself on the losing end of choosing to talk or listen. It's not there for me. I hope to find someone who wants it one day, though. smile

Country - Not rambling at all. If it is, I'm quite fluent come to find out! Always an interesting hypothetical. If he had cancer, I would expect him to take responsibility for his own situation to the extent possible. I'm not sure if I've made it clear here, but my guy is not seeking treatment for CSA (or anything within the past couple of months!), so it would be like saying "Oh, I have cancer.I don't really care to deal with that. Who wants to go to the gay bar?" Your comment is VERY helpful in my own realization that I can't be more involved than he is. If he's not interested in taking care of himself, I'm going to die doing it for both of us. (Yes, a LOT of people have said that to us supporters on here, but it's just starting to sink in a wee bit only just now.)

Cdn - I love the shining the light on one another idea. Very powerful.

Lancer - Very good point. If I look back, I gave up a lot of my idealistic thinking months ago to a good extent. I really do just want progress for him and for our relationship. I'm wondering if that expectation might still be a bit too high for where he's at in his recovery right now.

I guess I'm sitting back giving this a lot of careful though. It's over according to our last encounter. Finally. I have met SO many awesome people on here from both sides of the survivor/supporter front and heard so many survivors share so personally, that I might be romanticizing my P's own work and willingness to travel down that road. I really DON'T want this to end... I don't want it to be a reflection against those who are surviving and thriving. I really wanted this one to work out and to take the reins like I've seen so many here do. Oye...he's such a wonderful guy deep down, but the symptoms are too much today. 8 hours sleep, though... We shall see. wink

AND... I'd still love to hear other ideas and thoughts on this. I think this is something that will help me personally regardless of who I'm dating at the time!! smile

#408135 - 08/27/12 11:28 PM Re: Expectations & Rasing the Bottom [Re: Haps]
scottyg Offline

Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 289
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: Haps
I really DON'T want this to end... I don't want it to be a reflection against those who are surviving and thriving. I really wanted this one to work out and to take the reins like I've seen so many here do. Oye...he's such a wonderful guy deep down, but the symptoms are too much today. 8 hours sleep, though... We shall see. wink

AND... I'd still love to hear other ideas and thoughts on this. I think this is something that will help me personally regardless of who I'm dating at the time!! smile

You're on your way but I agree with your assessment that you've got a romanticized view of a survivor's progress. That's ok. I've got a romanticized view of partners separating then realizing they are each others one true love and reuniting before it too late. Oh shoot me.

But we both need to take off the rose colored glasses. You DID take the reins. You are doing what is best for you and there is little else you can do. Partners have never taken the reins so they can ensure things would work out. Unrealistic expectations and a recipe for failure. They take the reins to regain control and sanity in their own lives. Sometimes this assertion of personal boundaries has the side benefit of raising the bottom for a survivor in denial. He may have a moment of clarity where he values the relationship over the comfort of dysfunction. Much of the time a new set of boundaries only fuels the alienation and self-loathing a survivor already inflicts upon himself. That is why our work here is never done.

I will leave you with this thought, Haps. Most survivors have been betrayed in one way or another by people they once trusted. That trust is gone but it can be learned again. Even though the split is official you can still foster his trust in humanity again simply by being you. Check in from time to time with your survivor. Ask about emotional progress, encourage, support in small ways. You do not need to become a monk who is waiting for a miracle, get back out there. Nor should you become his emotional dumping ground for when future relationships fail and he runs back all hurt. Boundaries Haps for you and him. Hope not expectation.

Maybe, just maybe if you remain a consistent influence bringing hope and support there maybe some part in his life you can play. Do not expect the change you want... just be willing to foster and accept his positive changes, whatever.


#408282 - 08/29/12 07:52 AM Re: Expectations & Rasing the Bottom [Re: Haps]
whome Offline

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1743
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Haps

Sorry aboiut the slow reply.

Bringing the bottom up is a form of tough love. To do this or achieve this, we remove all support from the person, we dont lend money, we then set down a stringent set of rules, and if they break them they are on their own.

For example if he is a heavy drinker, the rule is, you need to stop drinking and get help, if you come home drunk, you are out, when I toss your sorry ass outta here you are on your own, no money no food no anything.
Essentially it is yanking the carpet out from under them.
It is a really difficult way to do things but if their behaviour is really destructive then it is essential.

You need to set down the rules, you are the functional person in the house so you need to run things. He is not in control so you need to be.
I think that your T is a little mixed up though. What is wrong with having a dream, and sharing that with someone. Naturally you would make allowances for their wants and needs, but if your partner is of doing his own thing, then why should you be ok with that.
A partnership is just that after all, each makes allowances for the other, and sacrifices. One of the sayings I like about about a relationship is, if either one of you is not giving 100% then you are not trying hard enough.
You need to find the person that you wanted to be, rediscover your your dreams, and start to reclaim your life. His choices are to join you or not.
This is what bringing the bottom up means.

Hope this helps.
Heal well
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

#408286 - 08/29/12 12:56 PM Re: Expectations & Rasing the Bottom [Re: Haps]
Haps Offline

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 89
Loc: Ohio
Thanks Scotty & Martin and everyone else. Very I Insightful and helpful.

#408298 - 08/29/12 02:59 PM Re: Expectations & Rasing the Bottom [Re: Haps]
CdnDW Offline

Registered: 08/24/12
Posts: 105
There are soooo many posts in this thread that I like. Really helpful stuff. I had a discussion with my DH about boundaries... about the fact that maybe he gets pissy with me and acts like I am the bivgest nag and control freak when I ask him to do a little thing because he had his boundaries trampled and actuallu does feel out of control. Maybe sometimes he forces our kids to do "fun" things they aren't ready for (like jumping in the water when learning to swim, riding a roller coaster etc) because he never learned boundaries. He even pushes me on little things... It's subtle and minor things but they add up to him needing control. He didn't confirm or deny or reply to my comments, which is usual as he doesn't talk, but when I pressed for a reaction, he simply said he needed time to process. Who knew this could be a big game changer for our relationship. Knowing this about him already makes me more comfortable about some of his behaviour and trusting ... because I know where some of it comes from, I feel more confident I can diffuse a situation, put up a firm limit or know when to just walk away.
I am not your rolling wheels, I am the highway
I am not your carpet ride, I am the sky
- Audioslave

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