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#40817 - 11/28/04 04:48 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
bec Offline

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 187
Loc: chicagoland area
great topic Lloydy:

i dont believe there is a simple answer for why one threatens or commits suicide. i am not a therapist so i do not know the professional explanations.

for me, there are times when the pain becomes GREAT and i feel little hope for anything better. this is when i struggle with suicidal thoughts the most.

i thankfully have never attempted it. i tell myself that my higher power has a time and place for my end and that to creat my own time/place is a violation of that power's will for me and WRONG.

also, i try to think of how such a thing would hurt the people that love me. and, how I DESERVE TO LIVE even if it is in a state of deep pain. these are the things that help me get through those times.


#40818 - 11/28/04 05:20 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I know I went through times of deep despair, I felt like nothing in the World was right, I felt that everyone was against me.

I tried to do it, but I felt it would cause so many problems if I did, I was almost there, nearly did it, didn't do it, and walked away from the situation feeling so warm at not doing it, and to express my love for my family.

I suppose they went through so much! I could not hurt them by doing it, they put up with me as a broken kid, they never understood the pain.

They never will, so many years down the line of family expecting you to just forget.

I could not live with my mind as a child, but somehow I did.

I really want to cry to my teddy, just as I did as a kid, I find it hard to cry, but crying is the only way ourt. Taking myself back to the hurt and addressing it is the only way of making any sense of the past,


Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#40819 - 11/28/04 07:00 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
RICK57 Offline

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
I don't know how I came to find this happened whenI was at an all time low....had I not found it?????????????

I didn't think about it at the time...I wasn't thinking about anything (hence the danger of my situation at that time).

I could have been a statistic!

I'm not - thanks again..Rik

*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

#40820 - 11/28/04 10:49 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Citizen James Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 1
Loc: Melbourne
I am new to this forum. And I thank whatever forces brought this site into existance.

1. The act of suicide is not an act of selfishness.
It is an act of definiteness.

2. Anyone who thinks differently is compict in the misknowledge that suicide is an act of selfishness.

#40821 - 11/29/04 03:57 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
unknownsoldier Offline

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 105
Loc: Northwest
I've been meaning to add my two cents for a while.

First, I'm sorry about your schoolmate, Dave. And also for all the others who have lost loved ones to suicide.

I know that when I was most recently suicidal, the thing I was most concerned about was my dogs, who would take care of them. But it crossed my mind t try to find a home for them, or even take them to the sholter so I could go ahead and die. If I had been a little bit more desparate, or if it had gone on longer, who knows. So I don't know exactly how that mixes into the debate about selfishness.

I do know that I was not looking for attention. I was aware enough that I thought if I just wanted attention then I should be a man and f*cking ask for it. So when I wanted to die I really wanted not just to escape the desparation but also I think to murder myself. I thought that people like me shouldn't be alive. I thouhgt that I was irreveribly damaged, that I had died a long time ago and that it was time to be done with this stupid mimicry of life, that it was like I was just killing my body, finishing the job that was done long ago.

So I can see that if I was just a little bit more delusional, or if something had happened in the outside world to mess up my life a little bit more, it could have pushed things over the edge.

I guess I don't think its a weakness to kill yourself, I wouldn't judge it. I also understand why the people left behind might be furious at the person.


#40822 - 11/29/04 04:58 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I think it's both things, selfish and definite.

To me the selfishness comes from the overwhelming feeling that "I want to kill myself, with no regard to those around me"
Which seems to be the main reason people are giving for backing down from suicide. It doesn't matter if it's close family, friends or your dogs, that feeling and knowledge of the distress we would leave in our wake is, for many of us, a greater feeling than the wish to end it all.

But, in many of my posts I also say that we as Survivors need a degree of selfishness, although I also say that it never be at others expense. I guess that I mean we should try and put ourselves first while we're recovering.

Suicide is a very definite act, that's a fact. But it's one where we only have so much control. After the act we have nothing.

I think I understand the degree of despair that makes suicide a serious option, and it's not a fixed thing; every person has their limit. We also have different support in place.
But once we are in the 'support' system then there should be a more open discussion of the 'suicide option' in an attempt to provide a safe escape from it.
Neither of the two people who's attempt and 'successful' ( I hate to use that word for this ) suicide quests were in any kind of 'help situation'.
My brother was given all the help he needed immediately after, and he's 100% confident that it will never happen again. It's too late for Mick.


PS. Welcome to MS James, I hope you find the support and help you might need right here.

Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#40823 - 11/29/04 09:08 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada

I think that this subject is really really great to have out in the open.

I wil tell a bit about my three attempts and try to put them in context of myself at that time.

My first attempt and my closest to sucess was at the age of 23. I had been transferred by the bank I worked for (less than a year after being a street kid and prostitute and heroin addict, and still an alcoholic.) to a small town in Southern Ontario. One fall day I was out hunting rabbits with a 303 rifle. I was walking down a road in bright sunshine and all of a sudden I just turned the rifle around and shot myself in the chest. No thinking before hand or anything just an impulsive act out of nowhere. Now as I sat on the ground about 6 feet from where the gun went off I never wanted to live more than right then. I missed everything; bone, veins, arteries, heart. Collapsed a lung and that was it. I drove myself to the hospital and bullshit my way by telling authorities it was a hunting accident. Fast forward to 1972. Married 5 years and home drunk on scotch. Had a fight with my wife. Just up and went into the bathroom and swallowed about 75 sleeping pills and washed it down with a big drink of scotch. Went out for a walk. Nicole found the empty bottle of pills and called 911. Woke up in the hospital. Spent 6 weeks in the pschiatric unit and managed to get out without revealing my past. Fast forward to 1999. October. Went to the inline skating rink. Got pissed off. Went down to Lake Ontario to think. Next thing I know I am taking off my clothes and walking into the water. Just decided to swim till I drowned. Got out about waist deep and someone from the beach asked me not to do it. Looked around and it was a guy with a dog. Came ashore and there was nobody there. Go figure.

What this is all leading up to is the fact that I was not aware of every planing any of these events. They just came out of nowhere. It was almost as if they had a life of their own. Was I crying out for help. I dont know. Was I being selfish ? I dont know. I had not planned any of them.
What I do know now is that it is not a solution to the problem but an ending. A final curtain admitting that the perps had won. And that I cannot abide now.

So all I can say is that I do not want to see this particular road taken by anyone at all. It accomplishes nothing except that the person will never be able to live life as he was meant to.

If this is triggering I apologize. Just wanted to let my brothers in on facts without dramatization or self analysis.



#40824 - 11/29/04 06:40 PM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
markgreyblue Offline

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
i think we should never ever close the doors on cries for help here - this is just my opinion -
although attention seekers could exist - i think it is very important to take each and every threat serious regardless - as they are all indicators of depression and despair on a grand scale - and if it is attention getting then there is serious imbalance to consider -

i do not know how to manage it here(MS) but i think you have made a really great start by offering resources that cover any resources MS is lacking-
the friends here have saved me - just by their comradery- from many a downward spiral -
and so i can't imagine that in the state of despair we have to start thinking about
how we might 'cross a line'?
i dunno - i just am glad you put the resources up for people who really need them - I just don't think if someone is suicidal we should curb their expresssion of how badly they are feeling -

but i probably misinterpreted a little and perhaps overeacted ....?


" not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous

#40825 - 12/01/04 12:35 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Dave, I am relieved that MS is finally taking a stand on this issue. Quite frankly,in the last couple of years, there has been a plethora of manipulative, overly dramatic personalities that have taken up way too much time on this board with direct or thinly veiled threats of suicide. Anyone who truly feels that they want to end their life should be seeking professional help elsewhere. ... Andrew

there is no courage without anxiety

#40826 - 12/01/04 02:56 AM Re: "SUICIDE" ( Trigger )
Brayton Offline

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
Sometimes voicing the intent is all that is needed to drain away its potency. There may be an assumption in the telling that someone will care and if someone cares then someone can hurt. If someone can hurt, then the act merely shifts your pain over to the one who cares about you and the web of life is slowly re-realized and the ideation is gradually dismantled.

Sometimes, things just won't work the way we want them to.

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