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#395478 - 04/29/12 05:35 PM Im confused
whome Offline

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
I had my weekend with my daughter, and we had a great time together. We ate together watched movies together, went to the mall together. It was a great time.
I am starting to go back to church, always was involved in the church but was hurt by the people in the churches so I stopped.
Now I have found a great church, but my daughter now 12, isn't to keen on it, so today she wanted to go Ice skating, I didn't want to miss church so I left her at the Ice rink and went off to church.
When I came back, the wife was there and she was furious, she told me that I didn't care about the family and only thought of myself.

Now I asked my daughter, we spoke about the possibilities and my fears of leaving her alone. She told me that she would be fine and that it was what she wanted to do.
I decided that I would use this as an exercise to help her build confidence, and also as a test to see if she could be trusted, if she would stick to the rules.

Well I suppose what I am asking is was I WRONG?? Should I not have done this.
When I was her age I was already roaming the streets alone, I was doing a lot of things that my daughter is not allowed to do, When is the right time to start trusting children?

And as per usual, don't spare the harsh commentary.

Thanks for your answers.
Heal well
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

#395490 - 04/29/12 07:59 PM Re: Im confused [Re: whome]
lucylives Offline

Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367

I live in a very safe neighborhood but even in safe neighborhoods my youngest daughter is not allowed to go anywhere alone. She is 11. If there were a bunch of her friends there and a parent I know, I would let her but the truth is I trust NO ONE, never did not even before I knew about all this. Am I paranoid? Yes, always have been.

I just let her go to the movies with her friends not too long ago but it was the small neighborhood theatre and she knew probably 50 kids there. I was still nervous about it but have to let her grow up a little bit but it is VERY hard to know what is the right thing to do at all times. I want my kids to be independent but I want to coddle them at the same time and protect them from every bad thing that oculd happen. the truth is I can't unless I was glued to their side 24/7 and that would certainly not be healthy for them.

Just my 2 cents. We all know about all the creepy people out there. The scary thing is the creepy people sometimes don't look creepy and that scares me so.

#395499 - 04/29/12 09:25 PM Re: Im confused [Re: whome]
peroperic2009 Offline

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3842
Loc: South-East Europe
Hi Martin, this is somewhat complex situation and difficult to advice. Time for trusting children started with day of their birth, we have to learn them how to behave and what are dangerous around but also we have to put trust into them so they can make some decision by themselves. It is long lasting process and it is not possible to have simple approach here. I have to add also that this is huge cultural issue. For example here (in Croatia) we don't have any concerns for kids (let say from 10+ years) to go alone in schools, theaters, public buses, ice skating or whatsoever. Parents have scares regarding some traffic incidents or something similar that could happen to kids while outside of home but almost never that some adult could make some harm to child. It is considered that children are safe at street almost the same as at home. So your action would be completely normal here. But for example here parents are more concerned for teenagers who could be in greater trouble sometimes with alcohol and their safety concerning bulling in schools as well as on streets.
But I don't know what is situation in South Africa. How is there, can you tell us?
Your daughter said that she would be fine there but when I think on incident that she has had whit internet and chat I couldn't be at easy to just let her alone if there is even sightless possibility for some trouble. She has showed that she is not mature enough to make her decision about safety so you have to manage that in first place in similar situation. Also I'm a little bit worrying on your approach to test trust in her with leaving her alone. Please think more how to get to some point trough some steps. Consider that you have to make some kind of training for your daughter. For example you should spent for start all time with her at skating, maybe she will meet some friends there, you have to know them..., you could see people who come there, you should see if anyone is known to you etc. Then after couple of times you could be there and left here for short to go to church (but just for short time) and come back. And after some time you could get to point that you, your daughter any your wife would feel comfortable to leave her alone there. It should be process, same for you as for her. Your daughter needs education and building of trust between you and that comes gradually with time.
I was couple months ago whit my 10 years old niece at skating and she is full of energy and very open person. The moment when I didn't watch her she was in some trouble. She was chasing some boys or they chased her, it was play but such play could finish with some trouble sometimes, she didn't know those boys before. Additionally she skates very fast and at one point there was crowd and she was flying trough people carelessly, some almost fell, and occasionally I needed to direct her to slow down. So just by that one time I knew that she couldn't be left there alone.
I hope this would be helpful for you..
My story

#395501 - 04/29/12 09:39 PM Re: Im confused [Re: whome]
Sailor John Offline

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 310
Loc: Newfoundland & Labrador
Hi whome,

Not having any children, I can only assume that ALL parents worry about how long they should keep a tight leash on their kids, especially around your daughters age. I feel that you should contol the leash but let it slowly get longer and longer as she proves herself as hard as it will be, especially for us Survivors.

Believe it or not, she is now a female adolescent and will soon have boyfriends. All childrens parents have to let go of the leash at some point either earlier or later. It's only a matter of time.

One lesson from this is maybe you should have a chat with your ex so that you are both on the same page. That should save you any grief in future. (meant as adise and NOT critism)

I will mourn the teenager I never was and strive to make that dot of light way out in the far reaches of the end of the tunnel turn into a bright sun.


#395506 - 04/29/12 11:06 PM Re: Im confused [Re: whome]
Pie Offline

Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 61
Personally I am surprised by the fact that this is even a question on a site of people struggling after abuse.

IMHO you were wrong and my reason is from previous threads you have mentioned your daughter has shown poor judgement in chatrooms and you have feared for her safety. I presume this was on a computer or phone, again presumption, in your own home. She is clearly taking chances and you should be pulling her closer to you at this point. You have had a traumatic time with your wife being raped early in the year. All the more reason I can imagine the horror of finding her little girl alone at an ice-rink.

This said, I do not leave my children alone and I have no reason not to trust them. When I grew up we pretty much did as we pleased, its not like that anymore, these kids have so much more to deal with and the dangers are real. Unfortunately you live in a country with such a high crime rate please guard her as much as you can.

Pero is rite its a process and you and your wife need to be working together. Make it clear that you are her parents and have her best interests at heart. Sometime the best thing we can do for our kids is say no. I know that with my H past behaviour I would give them as much as I could, then I realized I was doing them more damage.

Pull your baby closer and teach her well

#395510 - 04/29/12 11:30 PM Re: Im confused [Re: lucylives]
Geeders Offline

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: lucylives

I live in a very safe neighborhood but even in safe neighborhoods my youngest daughter is not allowed to go anywhere alone.

If I can jump in here for a moment....The vast majority of us were abused by people we knew, trusted, and even loved perhaps. a few were assaulted by total strangers. But if the current literature is correct in its assumption that we knew most of the people who abused and assaulted us, where did they live? The probably lived in our own areas, or neighbourhoods.

I grew up in a nice neighbourhod. A nice area of Toronto. Very little crime. But it was the same area where I was abused.

My point here is that it is equally important to raise our children to be wary of strangers, as well as those adults they do know if outside of your own parental supervision. Abductions and aassault can happen in a flash. Abuse take a little more time if being groomed. In other words, there is no such thing as a safe neighbourhood. Unless you are on an island with a population of 1.

Guard your children until they just won't let you any more. And even then, do it from afar, but able to check on them with an eyeball, or a phone call/text every now and then. They will thank you for it. Maybe when they are a parent... whistle

My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

#395562 - 04/30/12 06:28 AM Re: Im confused [Re: whome]
whome Offline

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Thanks all

There are so many good points here, I suppose bottom line is that I did not think this thing through.
There were so many options I could have gone with but it seems that I went for the easiest.

Thanks all for your comments.

Heal well all
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

#395577 - 04/30/12 10:08 AM Re: Im confused [Re: whome]
Dar Offline

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
We have raised 7 children and each of them are different in their own ways.
I saw things differently than my wife did and so forth.
With everything that has happened over the past between you and your wife it might be best for the both of you to decide what is right for you child.
A simple phone call to your wife asking her thoughts on the situation (any situations) would not only have helped you decide, but would also have helped your wife to begin trusting you again.
After all, Your child is loved by both of you and both of you should be on the same page concerning her.
Even if a decision is reached that turns out to be wrong, it was both of you that made the decision together as a couple, not as a single parent.


PS: So glad you are back in church, smile
All I ever wanted was a hug.

#395581 - 04/30/12 11:48 AM Re: Im confused [Re: whome]
SamV Offline

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5968
Loc: Sunnny, South East USA
Martin, recovery is another learning, then applying what you learn. We have more opportunity in the present and the future to do what we learn
With these good experiences, ask yourself how are you going to handle it next time? Share with us, Sam
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

#395586 - 04/30/12 12:50 PM Re: Im confused [Re: whome]
lucylives Offline

Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367
I agree about asking your ex wife her opiinion. When I am in a situation with my girls and don't know what to do, I call my exhusband for his advice. I feel it is good to keep him in the loop and I keep communication with him open.

Because of this respect I give to him in this way, when I am having an issue with one of the kids, I am blessed to have his support.

#395588 - 04/30/12 01:17 PM Re: Im confused [Re: whome]
Still Offline

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 7011
Loc: FEMA Region 1

I don't base many of my child training and growing decisions on what I was doing at their age...cuz...nuff said there.

I DO however base decisions upon the agregate of my knowledge of this society and child development. I've been studying it since I was a small child. I've had to emulate real-life.

Fortunately, my ex and I are greatly on the same page:

Son: Had an ever increasing length of liberty from the time he could walk. As he gained abilities and demonstrated responsibilities, he got to do things like ride his bike ALL around the neighborhood (age 7). such liberties.

At 12, we began to cut the rope entirely in some venues. This includes the vast majority of his life. As my ex says;"we are trying to raise a man, not a perpetual boy. If we raise a dependent, perpetual boy, his life will be greatly less." skating on his own at 12? Yes! He currently skateboards and long-boards ALL around town as long as he has his street-gang in tow. He knows enough to not be alone or at-risk 'out there.' I've also taught him some fantastically devastating defense tachtics that would discourage any creep.

Daughter: Age 11. No where near as responsible as Son. She is in her own head 90% of the time. Thus, not paying attention to her surroundings. Not interested in being alone ever. She does not wander out there and will not allow us to 'drop her off' anywhere. She is not capable yet...period. This year however, she wants to surf as her 'own thing.' So she will be allowed.

For me, its all about ability and track-record of prior responsibility.

#395607 - 04/30/12 04:14 PM Re: Im confused [Re: whome]
rook Offline

Registered: 03/30/12
Posts: 25
Maybe it's just me, but I read this a bit differently.

I believe in what geeders says about stranger danger issues.

Seems though you SO is saying something different. She says that while you have time with your daughter YOU decided to goto church. I don't think her issue is where our what you did vs leaving that time with your daughter for a personal "need". Aside from leaving your daughter alone at 11.

While self care is not selfishness, you might want to consider what you r SO is feeling while you try to rebuild your relationship.

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