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#391738 - 04/01/12 07:18 AM The shame and guilt of turning tricks
lapchinj Offline
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Loc: New York
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:10 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391739 - 04/01/12 07:32 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
ANDREW63 Offline


Registered: 08/27/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Australia
Hi Jeff, please remember mate that you are not to blame for what your surrogate father made you do ,i have found comming here and talking about my past extremely helpful it is something i never thought i would be able to do ,when i have explained to my therapist that i feel that i am to blame and the shame that i feel she tells me that the blame lies soley with my grandfather (my perp:) ,it is a long journey to heal but one that we CAN and WILL do together , look after yourself,Andrew.
_________________________
LOOK AT ME NOW I AM A SURVIVOR !My inner child and I are now doing this together !

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#391740 - 04/01/12 07:41 AM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Registered: 03/26/12
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 08:58 PM)

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#391741 - 04/01/12 07:43 AM * [Re: ANDREW63]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 08:58 PM)

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#391744 - 04/01/12 08:11 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
lapchinj Offline
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:10 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391745 - 04/01/12 08:18 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
"The past is like an old book. Throw it away and start a new one." -Young Guns Kiefer Sutherland's character to the Asian woman that was a whore before he married her.
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#391747 - 04/01/12 08:47 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: phoenix321]
lapchinj Offline
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:10 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391761 - 04/01/12 03:57 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
EdfromNYC Offline
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Registered: 02/18/10
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Loc: New York City
Jeff

I've been reading your posts and seeing you question your childhood perspective. I've been doing the same and I think it shows real a healthy, strong mind to do that. It means, to me, that you and I and others are in a place of being able to look at things because they are no longer controlling our behavior. Healthy thoughts are starting to lead us in a new direction and that means we have to question old thoughts.

I was molested by a stranger at age 13 and never saw him again. I acted out with men from 13 to my early 20's by choice. Like Andrew said above, I now see that I didn't have really have a choice. I had no other knowledge that I could be any other way. I had no other people in my life who knew and who cared about me. I had an extremely confused sense of touch, sex, love and intimacy all taught to me by sick people which made me come up with some sort of manageable system by which I could live. I had myself believe that this touch by this stranger and then by further strangers was intimate, caring, affectionate and at times, it would play that way. But men having sex with a boy IN SECRET is all about sickness and is all about the man either teaching negative bonding or further reinforcing an already damaged boy.

Someone on here pointed something out to me that boys need: affirmation, attention and affection (3 A's). Pedophiles can step in and use those needs to suit their own ends through the use of the boy's body against him. Its what happened to me and the abuse of it led me to further continue acting out on it since sexual touch seemed to meet all three needs:

(1) Affirmation - since he enjoyed my presence (through sex), it must mean I'm worthwhile;

(2) Attention - someone was seeing me, valuing me (even though it was as an object, it felt like value);

(3) Affection - physically, it wasn't all bad (and that's a huge part of the abuse - to make me seem complicit and equally responsible).

Combine all 3 and it screwed up my thoughts about male bonding, male mentors/father figures/leaders, my guilt about partaking, my shame about acting out on the abuse after made me feel like I must not have been abused, all of this led me to live a very isolated life. I resemble Andrew above in I am 46 and just starting to live my life.

I give you so much credit for re-investigating your perspective. Its not easy but, for me, its leading to freedom to think that I can have better.
_________________________
And more, much more, the heart may feel,
Than the pen may write or the lip reveal.
Winthrop Mackworth Praed

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#391805 - 04/01/12 11:43 PM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 09:00 PM)

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#391813 - 04/02/12 12:30 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
lapchinj Offline
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:10 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391817 - 04/02/12 01:01 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
traveler Offline
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Jeff - Ed's list of needs above is very helpful in understanding for me - hope it is for you too.

and - man - i thought i was a good secret keeper - but you are the master, dude! so good that you are finally feeling free to let it out. that's HUGE!!! hope you know how healthy that really is and give yourself some credit.

i don't think any of us here judge you for what happened. in fact i think most of us feel the SAME sense of overwhelming guilt, shame and worthlessness as you are describing - no matter what our individual circumstances were.

you said to me elsewhere something like the level of severity of abuse was jsut a number on a chart and that i shouldn't feel less abused because my experience was not similar to yours.

WELL - i hope YOU can hear that too in this context - YOUR shame and guilt is just a number on a chart too. what you went through does not make YOU worse - it makes the PERPS worse. don't take on THEIR shit. it belongs to them alone!!!

even the best of people sometimes fail or go astray. keep the good memories and try not to let the bad ones poison it ALL for you. but unless you face the fact that someone you loved was also someone who hurt you, i'm afraid you will keep on taking the blame on yourself.

i'm dealing with the opposite situation - the step-father who abused me most of the time could occasionally do nice things too. i have to remind myself and accept the fact that he wasn't a demonic monster all the time. he was human. i am human. we are both flawed. i hate to even have THAT in common with him, but there is nothing i can do about it... (sorry - going off-track)

Lee
_________________________
How long, LORD, must I call for help, but you do not listen?
Or cry out to you, โ€œViolence!โ€ but you do not save?
Why do you make me look at injustice?
Why do you tolerate wrongdoing?...
Therefore the law is paralyzed, and justice never prevails....
Habakkuk 1:2-3

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#391829 - 04/02/12 03:28 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: traveler]
lapchinj Offline
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:11 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391832 - 04/02/12 03:33 AM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
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Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 09:00 PM)

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#391833 - 04/02/12 03:33 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
traveler Offline
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not as extreme a case - but i have a couple of kids who have hurt me and done things that were hard for me to reconcile with their supposed love. but i still love them. i just keep those other things in a different place and accept the fact that we do love one another. your situation is far more difficult because of the extreme nature of the abuse. but i think its the same principal. only you can decide if you can keep both truths or if one of them will have to be trashed.

Lee
_________________________
How long, LORD, must I call for help, but you do not listen?
Or cry out to you, โ€œViolence!โ€ but you do not save?
Why do you make me look at injustice?
Why do you tolerate wrongdoing?...
Therefore the law is paralyzed, and justice never prevails....
Habakkuk 1:2-3

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#391834 - 04/02/12 03:37 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: traveler]
lapchinj Offline
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:11 AM)
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Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391835 - 04/02/12 03:40 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:11 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391837 - 04/02/12 03:42 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: traveler]
Jim1104 Offline
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Loc: Louisiana, USA
Jeff

Some of the people we idolize now, after hundreds and thousands of years were murders, etc.

If you want to know the truth, I do judge you by your disclosure of your past. I judge you as an incredibly strong man who I would be proud to call friend. I admire you sir!
_________________________
Jim
Male/USA

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#391841 - 04/02/12 04:03 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Jim1104]
Mountainous Buck Offline
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I am am a BiG believer in getting it all out there and letting the light of day help me see and relate to my shame in a totally empowering and freeing new way.

I can admit some pretty terrible things, thoughts and behavior from my past and see the power and leverage it once held shrink away.

Journaling, quiet reflection, meditation, and talking to a safe and understanding person who is supportive of my growth have helped me immensely.

In my own head, isolated, these past seem to haunt me until I shed light on it.
I've learned from others how powerful this can be-and how deeply buried some old ideas and beliefs from my formative years can continue to affect my behavior, communications, and relationships even today.

I also give myself a pass on the Teenage years- and try to see how desperate and alone I was - I had no trustworthy role models to help me cope wih life, the abuse, or general guidance.

I hope that helps- this is a great thread and I'm glad u started it- it reminds me how much I really admire the men here at MS-including you!
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

๏ฟฝIt doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#391878 - 04/02/12 11:44 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Mountainous Buck]
EdfromNYC Offline
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Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 329
Loc: New York City
Quote:
I also give myself a pass on the Teenage years- and try to see how desperate and alone I was - I had no trustworthy role models to help me cope wih life, the abuse, or general guidance.


I love this! This is finally where I'm headed myself and it is giving me so much more freedom to talk about what I "did" in private. I write "did" in quotes because it wasn't really a choice to act as I did; it was compulsive, born out of desperation and it was based on the only information that I had at that time. I don't blame myself anymore for acting the way that I did. I understand why.
_________________________
And more, much more, the heart may feel,
Than the pen may write or the lip reveal.
Winthrop Mackworth Praed

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#391916 - 04/02/12 06:35 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Jim1104]
lapchinj Offline
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:12 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391920 - 04/02/12 06:52 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
Obi Offline
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Mark that down as a positive, Jeff. wink
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#391923 - 04/02/12 07:05 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:12 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391924 - 04/02/12 07:08 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:12 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391926 - 04/02/12 07:19 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
Obi Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
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Loc: kansas
Nah, it's taking that wall down one brick at a time. The real you is emerging. The part of you that all your friends here already see and truly care about.

I know this because of what you said in your post that you know you have real friends because we listen to you and still accept you for who you are. That is what a true friend is. You realizing this is not only a positive, it's a VICTORY!!!

celebrate the victory! laugh
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#391927 - 04/02/12 08:01 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Obi]
ACRoberts Offline
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Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 242
Loc: New Jersey (recently moved fro...
Jeff,
I totally agree with Obi. You are AWESOME. You have inspired me through your support and honesty. Something I need to work on! I can relate to the feeling of what we did as kids. We did it out of necessity, not choice (even though I still struggle to not see it as a choice). I struggle to accept this, but through the support of our friends here as well as lots of hard work in therapy, it is SLOWLY sinking in.

Hang in there, my friend.
_________________________
Allan
________________________
WOR Sequoia 2011--it has changed my life!

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#391930 - 04/02/12 08:38 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: ACRoberts]
lapchinj Offline
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:12 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391933 - 04/02/12 08:47 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
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Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:13 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391939 - 04/02/12 09:40 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
Obi Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
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Loc: kansas
jeff,

you know something.... you're right... it was you choice...


and here's the "but"......


you made that choice out of survival... we all made the choice out of survival... we didn't know and/or understand, but we all did what we had to do to survive...

that is nature at it's finest... the first basic instinct in nature is to survive... whatever it is that we need to do, or say, is what will happen to survive....

jeff, you did what you had to do to survive...
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#391941 - 04/02/12 10:10 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Obi]
KMCINVA Offline
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Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 3748
Jeff,

I agree with obi--the CSA effects us in so many ways--creates guilt and shame, you were a child and your mind was not developed. You were robbed of growing up with a childhood like most here. We did whatever to survive--silence, giving into the abusers demands, and bury it in ourselves to fester and destroy our sense of self and worth. It influenced our choices in life, many times allowing others to diminish who we are--but only after facing the truth of the abuse can we begin to live. Yes things were done, but remember, you were robbed of yourself by the perp--destroying us in so many ways. I admire your courage to face the past and move forward. We deserve a normal life--as we heal we can choice that affirms who we are, not falling into the trap of others who will not value us, but expect much and hurt us. Keep going you are healing. You have survived--that is a major fete after what you have been through.

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#391942 - 04/02/12 10:26 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
Chase Eric Offline
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Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 2746
Originally Posted By: Jeff
turning tricks might have been out of necessity but it was also my choice. Yes I wanted to keep him and I was afraid that if I didn't play the game I would loose him. So it was my choice to continue.

We choose how we react, how we adapt, and in so doing we accept the consequence of our reactions. We take the bitter pill of responsibility in the hopes we are empowered to effect the change we want.

When I was singled out by my older mentor to have sex - even though I did not initially want to, I eventually indulged my reactions to him - my twisted sexual awakening - and thus owned them. I was a dirty little kid at 13. I wasn't a prostitute - but then again - wasn't I? I sold my body to buy my sister (and it STILL didn't work as I recently found out). It's the same thing. We sold for money or love - the oldest reasons in the book. We make our own reality, and sometimes we kid ourselves. Our flesh was our currency as boys - it was our power and perhaps we are united now in our guilt and dysfunction. Our sexual tracks were hammered down and set in dark secret moments we dared not share. And the train runs in an endless oval - circling and searching for a turnout - but it keeps going around and around, stuck in the pattern we laid out long ago. Can I come here and really expect to exculpate myself from sinking a few of those spikes - from setting some of those rails myself?

I suppose, Jeff, it is similar to your dilemma. There is no candy-coating that easily sticks to this. The paradox is simple enough: If I say it is my molester's fault, I exonerate myself but empower him. If I say it was my fault, I empower myself while at the same time convict myself of complicity; I own the shame. And there is no middle ground. Middle ground is for wimps, smacking of rationalization and excuse. Do we not own the marks that were painted upon us?

My late teens and early twenties were endless forays into putting myself in compromising situations with older, stronger men and saying "No" at precisely the wrong time. I am not proud that I left behind a trail of very sexually frustrated men in my youth. I probably said "no" to those men only a fraction of the times that I said "yes" to my perp. Was I was thinking that once the math evened out, I would have effectively "undone" the times I said "yes"? If I said "yes" to my perp 500 times but said "no" to guys after that 510 times, did I undo it? One guy didn't take "no" and I perhaps deserved the pain as much as he deserved the reward. So maybe that "no" counted for 20? Found not guilty by reason of math. How perfectly geeky of me - trying to work my way through this mess as if it was a mathematical proof.

So there - at least I can say I tried to undo the decisions I made. But I could not - and even if I did hit that magic number (whatever it was), I still wouldn't. I was kidding myself then. So what makes me think I'm not kidding myself here? Indulging in a kumbaya-laced attempt to convince myself it wasn't my fault after all? So I didn't have to (almost) sleep with all those big guys (one of them made me do it anyways)?

We all thirst for the perfect answer. What if we can't accept it even when we hear it? Even when we hear it 510 times?

There are no easy answers, nor do I pretend to know them. And I don't even understand the questions I'm supposed to be answering. Maybe we are all just sewer rats huddling together in the gutter, trying to feel good about ourselves, seeking some sort of "normal". But it is in the moments of acceptance of that unpleasant truth that I also feel the greatest feeling of liberation. I didn't ask to make these decisions. Maybe I made the wrong ones, but I didn't ask to make them. Neither, Jeff, did you.

Maybe it's enough to know that we are just trying to find our way.
_________________________
..



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#391945 - 04/02/12 11:19 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Chase Eric]
traveler Offline
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Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 4199
Loc: resettling in NE Ohio
Originally Posted By: Chase Eric
Just words - labels. We make our own reality, and sometimes we kid ourselves. Our flesh was our currency as boys - it was our power and perhaps we are united now in our guilt and dysfunction. The sexual tracks were hammered down and set. I can't change who I am now. Can I come here and really expect to exculpate myself from sinking a few of those spikes - from setting some of those rails myself?

...The paradox is simple enough: If I say it is my molester's fault, I exonerate myself but empower him. If I say it was my fault, I empower myself while at the same time convict myself of complicity; I own the shame and darkness of guilt. And there is no middle ground - for it smacks of rationalization and excuse. Middle ground is for wimps. Do we not own the marks that were painted upon us?
...
There are no easy answers, nor do I pretend to know them. And I don't even understand the questions I'm supposed to be answering. Maybe we are all just sewer rats huddling together in the gutter, trying to feel good about ourselves, seeking some sort of "normal". But it is in the moments of acceptance of that unpleasant truth that I also feel the greatest feeling of liberation. I didn't ask to make these decisions. Maybe I made the wrong ones, but I didn't ask to make them. Neither, Jeff, did you.

Maybe it's enough for now to know that we are just trying to find our way.


crying in my rice crispies here...
this is so profound. it will take me a while to work through it.

thanks for huddling together, fellow rats!
i'm proud to be included among you all
lee
_________________________
How long, LORD, must I call for help, but you do not listen?
Or cry out to you, โ€œViolence!โ€ but you do not save?
Why do you make me look at injustice?
Why do you tolerate wrongdoing?...
Therefore the law is paralyzed, and justice never prevails....
Habakkuk 1:2-3

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#391966 - 04/03/12 02:46 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: traveler]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:13 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391969 - 04/03/12 03:01 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
traveler Offline
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Loc: resettling in NE Ohio
Jeff - you are not there yet - BUT i firmly BELIEVE - you are on your way to where and who you want to be. Be patient with yourself. be kind to yourself. maybe because you got BOTH love and pain from the man you most loved, you are repeating the pattern in the way you treat yourself. Try to love yourself just as you are. that hasn't happened enough. many guys here admire and respect you for the courage and strength you have demonstrated. try not to abuse yourself. that has already happened too much.

((((((((((((((((((((((Jeff))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Lee
_________________________
How long, LORD, must I call for help, but you do not listen?
Or cry out to you, โ€œViolence!โ€ but you do not save?
Why do you make me look at injustice?
Why do you tolerate wrongdoing?...
Therefore the law is paralyzed, and justice never prevails....
Habakkuk 1:2-3

Top
#391978 - 04/03/12 03:55 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: traveler]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:13 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#391981 - 04/03/12 04:18 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
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Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Jeff,

Perhaps a lot of your healing will have to do with rediscovering yourself. Even though your memory-systems are vivid, that is not who you are. You are the person we know and see today.

Puffer

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#391986 - 04/03/12 04:32 AM * [Re: lapchinj]
Smalltown80sBoy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 2217
*


Edited by Smalltown80sBoy (04/28/13 09:01 PM)

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#392027 - 04/03/12 01:34 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Smalltown80sBoy]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:14 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#392031 - 04/03/12 01:44 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1634
Loc: kansas
jeff,

you are doing great! you are making so much progress... i know it's hard to see when you are living it daily.. it's hard to see the progress, unless it's something major...

usually others will point it out and that's when you'll see it too... happens to me all the time.. can't begin to tell you how many people around me have told me that they've noticed changes in me, that i didn't see until they pointed it out.. made me feel good though because it tells me that progress is happening and that i'm getting better...

it's the same with you... you are making progress jeff...

just the fact that you started a few threads here opening up yourself to everyone here... that was HUGE!!!

plus, you are also making a lot more positive comments too... shows that your making progress in that area too....

you're getting stronger jeff... each step you take, each brick you take down from your wall, the better you become....

these are all victories jeff... every step forward in becoming a healthier person from our abusive past is a victory....

great job jeff!!! proud of ya!
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#392032 - 04/03/12 01:45 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Lapchinj

It is possible to reframe our childhood and our concept of self. I have been working on it since about age 45. I've had a lot of counseling and done a lot of reading. Yes it did take a bunch of time. Yes it was worth doing.

There are one or two books written about this, that is, reframing our childhood. I'll try to find them.

Puffer

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#392034 - 04/03/12 01:48 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:14 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#392035 - 04/03/12 01:51 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 4199
Loc: resettling in NE Ohio
What Obi said!!!
YES,YES,YES.
Lee
_________________________
How long, LORD, must I call for help, but you do not listen?
Or cry out to you, โ€œViolence!โ€ but you do not save?
Why do you make me look at injustice?
Why do you tolerate wrongdoing?...
Therefore the law is paralyzed, and justice never prevails....
Habakkuk 1:2-3

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#392042 - 04/03/12 02:28 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: traveler]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:14 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#392043 - 04/03/12 02:36 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:14 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#392050 - 04/03/12 04:02 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Jeff

Yep, I was kinda' hopin' nobody would notice how long it took. Not good. I wandered a lot of the time. I actually seemed to be getting worse for awhile.

That was the bad part. The good part is: I made rapid progress during some treatments: Light hypnotherapy helped with my dissociative disorder. Problem was I quit before it was through. EMDR helped a great deal and I made fast progress there. I had to have a bunch of talk therapy because I needed to find out who I was. I had to learn how to relate to people. Reading helped a lot. Finally, viewing movies relating to my self-concept helped a lot.

I had huge problems. The fact that I couldn't talk for several years as a young teen should signal the immensity of what I was dealing with.

I lacked someone to guide me through all that.

I'm about half way through the book: Nice To Meet Me. That book talks about a guy's journey through healing from child sexual abuse. I think that reading it would help someone move faster. I like this book a whole lot. It is by Chris (BuryingJack).

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=381860

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=380279

Allen



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#392060 - 04/03/12 04:56 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: lapchinj

I would love it if you could find those books.



Reframe Your Life: Transforming Your Pain Into Purpose, by Steve Arterburn

http://www.amazon.com/Reframe-Your-Life-Transforming-Purpose/dp/0446580333/

Bad Childhood, Good Life, Blossom and Thrive In Spite of an Unhappy Childhood. By Laura Schlessinger.

http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Childhood---Good-Life-Blossom-Childhood/dp/0060577878/

The following books are by John Bradshaw:

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Shame-Binds-Recovery-Classics/dp/0757303234/

As far as I can tell, most of the guys who were seriously abused, and this includes me, had a troubled family life in growing up. John Bradshaw helped me to think about troubled family relationships. Understanding turns the key in the lock.

http://www.amazon.com/Bradshaw-On-Family-Creating-Self-Esteem/dp/1558744274/

http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secrets-Path-Self-Acceptance-Reunion/dp/0553374982/

Allen (Puffer)





Edited by pufferfish (04/03/12 04:58 PM)

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#392066 - 04/03/12 05:47 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
phoenix321 Offline


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Originally Posted By: lapchinj
Hey Phoenix,

It's burned into my brain so it's not that disposable. Besides I still want some of it.

Peace, Rainbows & healing
Jeff


Jeff,

I know I missed the discussion after page one. Despite it being burned into your brain, forgive yourself. That's what most of us don't do. I never judge anyone. Why? No judging, no worry about being judged. And, people should be able to do whatever they want to as long as they don't hurt someone else. Also, is turning a trick the worst thing in the world? I personally don't see people who sleep with people for things (like say a wife/gf/bf for a new stove or car) any different than turning a trick. Too many treat marriage as a contract for legal prostitution to make themselves look good to certain parts of society (hey, religion!!!). When you weren't a willing participant, the shame belongs to the pimp/perp. If you don't have a record, just forgive yourself and maybe no one needs to know. Be honest to a spouse, sure. You can get the record expunged you know. Check out Hookers For Jesus. They are on the web. Annie Lobert may be overly religious but she's actually showing that Christian love stuff the rest of the church doesn't 99% of the time. She knows about having to be a high class call girl under threat of death. Her story made me cringe. So does yours. She did chose that life. You really didn't. Big difference in the way of thinking. And, if you did a few times after 17, does it really matter? I think, so? to people's pasts. It's an old book. Throw it away and start a new one. Yeah, it is that easy when you believe it is. Peace.


Edited by phoenix321 (04/03/12 05:49 PM)
Edit Reason: add
_________________________
Phoenix

A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

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#392085 - 04/04/12 12:15 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: phoenix321]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:15 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#392087 - 04/04/12 12:23 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:15 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#392217 - 04/05/12 12:38 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1368
Loc: NY
Jeff i just wanted to share a quote will you that may help explain why nobody saw as you said that something wrong...

"There are none so Blind as those who Will not See."

I definitely think that your folks, both parents of yours fit in to this category.

Your Brother,
Logan
_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#392230 - 04/05/12 03:14 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Logan]
lapchinj Offline
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Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:15 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#392237 - 04/05/12 03:51 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 4199
Loc: resettling in NE Ohio
*** They were fucken deaf, dumb and blind. ***

this phraase jsut gave me a flashback to The Who's "TOMMY!"
Remember that - the first rock musical - or whatever. I really loved that album - and parts of the movie were ok - though it never lived up to myexpectations or imagination.

now i know why it resonated with me so much - "Uncle Ernie" and the helplessness of the "deaf, dumb, and blind kid" - used and exploited by the adults who were so screwed up and deaf, dumb and blind themselves. i became Tommy - emotionally deaf, dumb and blind because of the CSA and bullying. That refrain haunts me: "See me, feel me, touch me, heal me." that is what we are crying.

Lee
_________________________
How long, LORD, must I call for help, but you do not listen?
Or cry out to you, โ€œViolence!โ€ but you do not save?
Why do you make me look at injustice?
Why do you tolerate wrongdoing?...
Therefore the law is paralyzed, and justice never prevails....
Habakkuk 1:2-3

Top
#392271 - 04/05/12 12:58 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: traveler]
lapchinj Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:15 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#392272 - 04/05/12 12:58 PM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
Shaun The Sheep Offline


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 188
Loc: West Coast
I've read this thread with shock, sadness and horror. I cannot imagine the guilt and shame you feel and I appreciate you sharing it with us. Please know that I feel bad for you - feel sorrow for you - feel pity for you.

It boggles my mind that someone could convince you to do such a thing and also put all of these like-minded sickos together. What a world.

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#392353 - 04/06/12 12:06 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: Shaun The Sheep]
lapchinj Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:16 AM)
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน

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#392383 - 04/06/12 03:12 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: lapchinj]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: lapchinj

Yeah I still can't figure out how no one picked up that something was wrong when your not talking. I remember very well the scout story. What about your parents, didn't they find that strange?


I didn't lose my voice immediatly after that scout event. So there was a time delay of about a year and a half.

So you're asking - doesn't that make it even harder to understand? Yes and no.

I got abused again twice after the scout fiasco. Maybe more than that. I have never posted here about the other instances of abuse. It all just added up to a huge, huge burden. Once a kid is abused and loses his sense of self, the vultures start circling overhead.

My parents sensed something was wrong ( boing! shocked ) after the scout camp stuff, so they sent me to an ear-nose-throat doctor. It took over a year. The guy was an old wizened wizard. They arranged for me to check in at the ENT Hospital for tonsillectomy. I was age 13 and in 8th grade. I was being shunned by the other kids at school. The football coach contributed his verbal abuse. The assistant scout leader (a different one) abused me yet again (csa). When I emerged in the morning from the operating room my voice was real scratchy and I couldn't talk. (So big, big surprise!) But my voice didn't heal. It stayed as a scratchy whisper. Nobody knew what to do.

Essentially it stayed that way for several years. After finishing 9th grade the family moved to a different city. I was getting ever more and more depressed. I was starting (age 15) to think of suicide. After eating lunch all alone I would find an empty classroom and cry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdkNn3Ei-Lg&feature=youtu.be

Finally I got to a crisis point. But instead of doing anything rash, I went to the social worker in the nurse's office Monday morning. I wrote a note that I couldn't talk. She arranged for me to get speech therapy. I got to leave Latin class early once a week and walk to a nearby school for speech therapy. I was in speech therapy for several months. Of course it wasn't helping because I didn't have anything structurally wrong with my voice. Finally I worked up enough courage to tell the speech therapist that: "I really could talk." But I only talked when by myself. The speech therapist said: "Ohhhhhhhhhh.............."

She arranged for me to have counseling therapy. I was still 15. They didn't know what to say about abuse in those days. I went to about a dozen sessions. The therapist asked me to have my mother come in for a private session. I crept up to the door and listened for a minute. The therapist asked my mother: "Why don't you love your son?". She replied weakly: "I do!". That's all I heard. I crept away again. It took me many years to realize that she or they were meeting privately with my parents. My parents finally told me to take their credit card and buy some clothes for myself in the big city. I was very timid and I only bought one shirt.

A few years later the first book about abuse in English was published there:

http://www.amazon.com/Child-Abuse-The-Developing-Series/dp/0674114264/

I suppose there was a link between my child psychology therapist and the author of that book.

I was like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4zh20Cmj9k





Puffer






Edited by pufferfish (04/06/12 03:25 AM)

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#392410 - 04/06/12 04:47 AM Re: The shame and guilt of turning tricks [Re: pufferfish]
lapchinj Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1481
Loc: New York
Peace,Rainbows & Healing


Edited by lapchinj (03/17/13 02:16 AM)
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