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#389786 - 03/19/12 05:07 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Castle]
mmfan Offline

Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 115
Married woman here, and CSA survivor. I went through a time in healing when I had little to give to a spouse. Healing took all my energy, and I spent a lot of time online devoted to it. My spouse's demands felt, well, demanding. For the 1st time I was doing something good for me, and I was unwilling to sacrifice that.

Also...I was afraid of real intimacy, using the computer as an escape and a shield. I didn't want sex either, citing his weight and various issues. It was easier to feel close to (and attracted to) friends outside the marriage because I wasn't bound to them, was free to leave, was under no expectations/obligations.

Also around the same time, something bad happened to my spouse that required he turn to me for support. (Sound familiar?) I felt overwhelmed, and burdened. He was my "rock," now my "rock" was needy and vulnerable and demanding. This wasn't the deal I agreed to! It didn't compute. The scared child inside of me needed a caretaker figure, and I resented him turning the tables.

Yet...I found it in me to support my online friends, and devoted a large amount of time and energy to them. Why? They "got" me, and made me feel seen and heard. My husband (even while playing the role of the "rock") didn't bother to learn about CSA, "Allies in Healing" sat unread on the shelf. So while I wasn't giving him much, he wasn't meeting my needs either. I felt alone and misunderstood.

I suspect a similar situation with you. Does your wife truly understand your "world" and whats going on with your healing? Does she know what you want most in the world, your hopes and fears? Do YOU know what's in her mind as a person, as a woman, with her rape, her relationship, HER hopes and fears? Or have you both shut down and stopped talking? Its not uncommon for us survivors to marry someone with similar intimacy issues. Healing demands that BOTH parties tear down walls, and your wife may be hiding behind hers.

Without physical or emotional intimacy, you have little to lose. Why not experiment? Start expecting more from the relationship, see if it can withstand the test? If not, your free to walk away, and you will likely have learned a thing or two about yourself.

Why not hold your wife to the same standard you hold your survivor friends? Expect her to be your friend and peer, to listen and SEE you as a person. Why not open up to her in the radical way you've opened up here and in your Matrix men groups? See if she can tolerate the real you.

The question is, are you willing to take a risk, and try something new, in a relationship with new "rules"? You mention the word caretaker. Roles are limiting - not just to the person in the role, but to us as well. If she's the "caretaker" then that cuts YOU off from the caretaker/protector inside yourself. You're currently expressing this part of yourself through your men's groups, which is great -I wonder if this part of you needs expression in your intimate life as well- as a husband and father?

My advice is to tear it all down to the foundation Martin and face your fear. Will happen if you turn off the computer and face your wife as a person, messy, needy, demanding, angry, scared, vulnerable? Will you be consumed and overwhelmed by it?

This isn't meant to be a pep talk -as I don't like telling people what to do with their marriages. Maybe youre in a place that's incompatible with marriage. That's not wrong. No matter what, you need to put yourself first. I just know that fear of intimacy masquerades as a lot of different things, and walking away from your marriage now could be a self-destructive fear-based act, one with permanent consequences. It is not easy to find a loyal loving partner who accepts our wounds.

#389841 - 03/19/12 11:54 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
herowannabe Offline

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Ladies please tell me what do woman really want out of a marriage. How do they expect to be treated?

The polar opposite of how you are treating your wife.

I live thousands of miles from you, but even I could send your wife flowers. Did you hand them to her on your way to the computer?

Having the "odd" conversation? Not sure what that means, but if your wife is asking to be nurtured, I think she's looking for more than chit-chat.

The holiday is great, but were you there???

If you love your wife, you have to love her more than anything else- including everything that you prefer to do. You say she has been your support through a whole lot of crap that hurt her terribly. Your actions raped her heart. Before she can even recover from that, another SOB raped her body. And you continue to lie about this other woman you referred to. And you choose to make MS and MM your life partner. And you seem genuinely confused as to why she wants you gone???

There is love out there for your wife. There is someone out there who will cherish your wife and daughter. There is a man out there who will nurture and protect and hold your wife until she is strong again. There's a man out there who longs for a loyal, generous, loving woman to share his life with.

Will you be that man?

Please God, send this woman a hero.


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11

#389860 - 03/20/12 02:42 AM Re: To be Honest [Re: herowannabe]
phoenix321 Offline

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 912
Loc: USA, FL
Hero and Mmfan,

Martin's attitude toward his wife expressed in his posts reminds me of my no-good, abusive, self-centered cheating whore monger jerk "father." Martin's wife was right on the money throwing him out. CSA didn't do all that to Martin. Truth is, with anyone, they do it because they want to. I've known plenty if CSA survivors over the years that didn't cheat on their wives/husbands and were decent people. Decent with problems, but decent. Martin may think I'm being hard on him but he needs a smack upside his head. And, no woman is good enough for him with this attitude. A hooker might be. If he doesn't really change like all his bullshit he preaches to everyone else (be positive...look on the bright this, do that), he's gonna be a narcissist jerk nobody wants to ever be around. Do you really want to be an old guy sitting in the bleachers hating everyone because you chose the chickenshit way out of your marriage, life?

I agree his wife needs a hero, and, I know for certain, Martin ain't gonna be it with his current me, me, me attitude. Be careful, treating your wife like shit, dude, will make your daughter hate your guts (if she already doesn't have tons of resentment and hate already). I speak from experience. I hate my sperm donor...and sometimes mom. Oh, and my sperm donor was the religious pharisee type too. You're heading down a very sad, lonely road. The money and window dressing might make it look good, but it's hell on the inside, dude. I lived through a hell like that.

My sperm donor loved to "help" anyone but me and my mom. Just like you. Oh, and he screwed a hundred or so women too. You said there were affair(s). Hope not that many. Dude, you're in a bad, bad place. It may look decent to you but you'll one day find out it really sucked when you see the destroyed lives of your wife and kid and/or see them happy with someone else.

Your wife and daughter definitely have my condolences on their loss. They deserve a lot better and I ain't talking about money and things. Sorry, dude, that's what I see and what I've seen for 40 years. By the way, it's heal or not. There ain't no middle ground. I learned that sitting in AA/NA. You're full of addictions too. The computer being the big one that is now the Matrix Men. Heal Well.


A guy opens the front door and sees a snail on his doorstep. He picks up the snail and throws it across the street in a neighbor's yard. A year later, the guy opens the front door and the same snail is on his doorstep. The snail says, "What the f*ck was that about?"

#389897 - 03/20/12 12:27 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: phoenix321]
lucylives Offline

Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367

I have said this before "Why not lean on your wife and let her lean on you" rather than just leaning on people on the computer?

It is great that you want to help people on here but the only people that really matter are your wife and daughter.

You have been a hero to so many people on here. Who is their hero?

I agree with hero and I love her prayer about sending her a hero. Please let that be you!

I pray God sends us all heros. I know I need one and I want it to be my husband.

FYI, u ladies have been my heros too but I want one here with me to hold me and be my partner. Don't get me wrong, you all are a Godsend to me but I need more than computer friends and help.

Don't u, Martin?

#389905 - 03/20/12 01:19 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Castle]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus

Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 2614
Loc: Central PA
You've made everything else a priority and made it clear that she is not a priority. Why would she want to stay with you? Throwing a card and flowers in her direction means nothing because the thought behind it is nothing.

If you can't order your own house, you won't be able to order another. Sideline your desire to help others for now and save your marriage. Then you truly will be able to help others, because right now, regardless of you stating that you want to help others, your actions and words make it clear you have only eyes for helping yourself.

One question to add.... why is everyone else worthy of your time and help and she is not?

Edited by JustScott (03/20/12 01:23 PM)

#389913 - 03/20/12 01:48 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: JustScott]
Gretta Offline

Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 240
Take a deep breathe and do what you already know you need to do. You've given the advice a million times and ironically have been the hero of many of us (wives of survivors).

It's not easy, its F#$#! hard and that's probably why you haven't done it. Do as I say and not as I do, that doesn't help anyone. Dig deep and know she wants your honesty not your flowers or a card not filled out!

Just think of all the men you can help once you have gone through this and didn't give up or walk away. You will speaking from behind sweat and tears with a smile because you will have made it to the other side.

Much love for you Martin you have been there for me so many times now be there for your wife and daughter.

#389914 - 03/20/12 01:51 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
G1psy Offline

Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Netherlands
Ladies please tell me what do woman really want out of a marriage. How do they expect to be treated?

Heal well

Try the basics:
respect, intimacy, humanity, love.
What a kid needs growing up, to thrive in his or her life. And grown ups to!

Concepts that might be very well alien to someone with PTSD-C!

You can break these concepts of respect for instance down, to what they mean to you. When you break them down, you are left with values. Things that you hold dear in life. Building blocks to build you life upon. All the rest is bullocks.

Either you respect, or don't respect someone. Lies corrupt this concepts to nothing.
Flowers, hollidays, chocolates, what ever, means nothing without it.
Just hollow without the company of respect, emotional attention, love etc.
I presume things you didn't have growing up yourself. That is a sad thing.

I consider these the buildingblocks of all healthy human interaction.

Heal well Martin

#389918 - 03/20/12 02:23 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: whome]
herowannabe Offline

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
CSA didn't do all that to Martin. Truth is, with anyone, they do it because they want to. I've known plenty if CSA survivors over the years that didn't cheat on their wives/husbands and were decent people. Decent with problems, but decent.

Thanks for this reminder, Phoenix.

I believe that a boy's emotional and sexual maturity can be short circuited by sexual trauma/abuse. Furthermore, I can see how the lack of healthy, mature coping skills can cause a survivor to develop unhealthy, addictive and abusive behaviors/attitudes. But, I can NOT fathom those sick behaviors/attitudes continuing after disclosure and therapy begins. A slip, perhaps, but a way of life? Huh-uh!

Part of being good support is knowing when you're just being used and abused. We supporters struggle to determine if we are a treasured blanket our husband will tenderly cling to during their recovery, or if we are merely a doormat on which to deposit the filth of where he's been, only to be kicked out of his way so he can head right back there again.

It appears Mrs. Whome has determined her purpose in Martin's life.

Save yourself, Mrs. Whome. You've been a hero for him long enough. He's choosen another addiction, one he call's "helping others". It must be excruciatingly painful to see how badly he wants to "help" people who've not done a thing for him, while you, the one who has sacrificed SO much, is ignored, patronized, insulted and sits bleeding to death. That is not your fault, my sister. You are worth so very much more than that! One day, you're going to know that's true.

Godspeed, sister...


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11

#389919 - 03/20/12 02:33 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: Gretta]
peroperic2009 Offline

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3843
Loc: South-East Europe
Dear friends and Martin, I just need to tell something.
Martin is true hero and if I'm not wrong he is finally doing something that he likes the most.
He has expected some support from his wife doing so and that hasn't happened.
He also has said that his wife needed some help and she has fallen in some denial and fighting with him at same time.
Also his insecurities and not telling complete true to her (even he hasn't had real reason not to tell true) also means that there were some expectations and conditions set in first place. It is difficult to live like that (at least form me would be like that).
So at the moment they both are in some retreat and dealing with self.
Intimacy and connection has gone for some time. They both are equally responsible for that, it is immature to put blame at just one side. They both have done that.
That has noting to do with Martin's need to help others and etc. Thing that he is doing are good and they are certainly not addictions nor could be bad, not in this universe...

I was in similar position couple years ago and I know how difficult must be when two stubborn are met in some fight, than every opportunity is good reason for attack, it is place called hell.
It is not question what actions are in which order and by whom set as priorities, reasons also are not important there. Those are just fighting remarks of offended partner. And in some fight we don't chose weapons but we go with everything that is accessible...

Important questions here (at least for me) are:
Is there any energy left for constructive approach, not for destructive - by both sides?
Is there enough good will left to start something from zero level by both sides?
Is there any recognition and understanding left in both of them for other side?

I'm sorry Martin if I was too open and in some way rude by speaking about you and your wife, I've needed to tell this because off debate that has started!

Be Well!

My story

#389958 - 03/20/12 11:10 PM Re: To be Honest [Re: peroperic2009]
Esposa Offline

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 811
Loc: NJ
Ouch all around.

I have to say something from experience... and take some responsibility. From what I see, many survivors end up married to very similar fixer type women. We fix. It's what we do. Even when we can't fix it, we certainly will stand by and make ourselves 100% codependent. I did this for 15 years for my husband.

But when I fell down, and had to tend to my own wounds, my own troubles, he had an affair. He wasn't acting out - he was going elsewhere to have someone mother him. Make him feel important. And he certainly resented me for it.... sound familiar?

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