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#386844 - 02/22/12 09:16 PM Re: ***TRIGGER ALERT*** Re: I'm attracted to preteens [Re: LandOfShadow]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5781
Loc: Lyons, CO USA
Here is the official definition of pedophilia (per the DSM-IV):

Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia
(cautionary statement)

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).

B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old.

Specify if:

Sexually Attracted to Males
Sexually Attracted to Females
Sexually Attracted to Both

Specify if:

Limited to Incest

Specify type:

Exclusive Type (attracted only to children)
Nonexclusive Type

Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Copyright 2000 American Psychiatric Association

Blissfully retired after 35 years treating sexual abuse

#386852 - 02/22/12 10:23 PM Re: I'm attracted to preteens [Re: DarkHadou]
Avery46 Offline

Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: DarkHadou
...BTW, I never did anything inappropriate, it's only being attracted to them, mentally and physically I can relate to them more.

DH, I applaud your courage in posting your thoughts and feelings.

For me, I believe you - I read and re-read your very first entry which I quoted you above.

I too was infected by the abuse I survived so much that my relationships and sexual activities were confusing. As I am untangling the confusion and cleaning up mess of my life - I am experiencing my authentic sexuality/being.

I am very glad we here at MS are talking about this issue.

Bravo, to DH especially but to us all for sticking to this issue and supporting DH and each other.


aka DJsport

#386853 - 02/22/12 10:31 PM Re: ***TRIGGER ALERT*** Re: I'm attracted to preteens [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Chase Eric Offline

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 2588
Originally Posted By: Ken Singer
Here is the official definition of pedophilia (per the DSM-IV)...

...Please note that this is NOT directed at Ken - he is only putting out there what the DSM-IV says...
By that definition, the 15 year old who molested me and my 7 year old sister was not a pedophile. Maybe that's why he was never turned in to the authorities - the parents were told he couldn't be prosecuted? I'm uncharacteristically going to hazard a guess that the wise professionals who came up with that formula never experienced CSA?

When I was 12, I could easily pass as 10, and my 15 year old abuser could grow a full beard. If anyone walked in on us, they'd see a twenty year old on a ten year old. But reduced to such convenient numbers, I guess it wasn't that bad after all. In fact, two parameters said it was not pedophilia so it wasn't - right? In six months he was 16 and I was still 12, so only the five-year age difference definition applied and so it was still not pedophilia. Yet the actual age difference was much more benign than the physiological reality. I was a little boy and he was a man by any definition except perhaps those of the "experts"...

I don't mean to be flip, but such quantification seems to best define parameters for those who care to look just that far.


#386866 - 02/22/12 11:59 PM Re: ***TRIGGER ALERT*** Re: I'm attracted to preteens [Re: Chase Eric]
limit Offline

Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 131
@chase eric:

pedophile is a diagnosis as well as a de>

Edited by limit (02/23/12 12:05 AM)

#386867 - 02/23/12 12:07 AM Re: ***TRIGGER ALERT*** Re: I'm attracted to preteens [Re: limit]
Chase Eric Offline

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 2588

Precisely. I think we just said essentially the same thing (except I did not mention DH but agree with you on your assessment).


#386869 - 02/23/12 12:28 AM Re:I'm attracted to preteens [Re: Chase Eric]
alone Offline

Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 62

Edited by alone (03/12/12 08:52 AM)
Edit Reason: n/a

#386871 - 02/23/12 12:30 AM Re: ***TRIGGER ALERT*** Re: I'm attracted to preteens [Re: Chase Eric]
limit Offline

Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 131
@ chase eric:

ya, that was kind of a long-winded i-agree lol. i just wanted to add that basically, no - he wasn't a pedophile. but that isn't really relevant to how he abused you and how it affected you.

i guess terms like this only exist bc of the law. you need to define something somewhere. i think punishing a 50 year old for raping a 12 year old is inherently different than punishing a 15 year old for raping a 12 year old. you know what i mean?

a 15 year old is not cognitively adult, and does not cognitively understand the world around them the way an adult does. i am thinking of myself at 15 and the things i used to do, and how i am so different now bc i have the experience of being an adult and that my brain has developed more completely.

the power dynamics between a 15 year old losing control and raping a 12 year old are different than the dynamics between a 50 year old who rapes a 12 year old, in the eyes of the law. the 15 year old's brain is not as developed as the 50 year old's, which forces the law to look at how to appropriately punish the 15 year old for a crime that he doesn't "fit" the definition to.

the law tries to distinguish things like that. the thing is, the law is a generalization applied to individual situations. so it comes off coldly a lot of the time, and misses a lot of the little minor fluctuations.

shit, an 18 year old is considered an adult...are you serious? at 18 i was drunk every day and could barely put 2 + 2 together. the definitions of adulthood and childhood and teenagehood are all very arbitrary and i think they are purely legal definitions, tbh, to reflect that children and adults see the world differently and that is not the child's fault, bc the child's brain is still developing.

it's all a bunch of legal bs, basically. because even though you have this 15 year old who is obviously different from a 50 year old, the fact of the matter is, you still have a power dynamic going when that 15 year old is large enough, and smart enough to overpower a younger child they are obviously sexually attracted to. the child knows even less, their brain is even less developed than the 15 year old's, and the 15 year old knows what they are doing is wrong, whereas the 12 year old might not even comprehend what is happening.

it is tough. both to legally define and to enforce. i have heard stories of child on child rape, and it is hard to legally understand where to come down on that, but each individual situation is different. how do you punish a 10 year old who rapes a 7 year old? what if SA was in both their histories? what if... i mean you know? so the law doesn't recognize stuff like that, which is why it all more often than not gets shoved aside and ignored. even if the 10 year old was a sociopath (something i have witnessed myself) who was deliberately doing it on purpose and knew what they were doing. you know?

i don't think you can really summarize the power dynamics age have on abuse with something as easy as "this is an adult, this is a child." bc the lines get blurred. not all rape happens between an adult and a child, there are things that fall in the middle, and then you have to judge it based on how you perceived the event, and what happened, which the law often does not.

Edited by limit (02/23/12 12:33 AM)

#386872 - 02/23/12 12:31 AM Re: ***TRIGGER ALERT*** Re: I'm attracted to preteens [Re: limit]
limit Offline

Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 131
So we are to believe that every human being alive on this planet if they have had even just one fleeting inappropriate sexually related thought about someone under the age of 18 no matter how mild it may be, then they are a pedophile.

that is not the definition of pedophilia, there is a definition posted by ken singer up on the top. pedophilia is inherently a prolonged, long-term sexual attraction to children [under the age of 13] that negatively impacts you or others, and that this attraction is experienced by an adult, toward a child.

if you have had sexual attraction to children for longer than a couple of years and it has negatively impacted either yourself, or another child, and you are an adult - then yes, you are a pedophile. pedophile in this instance is not being used as a moral judgment, and nowhere did i make a moral judgment, neither did ken singer. the definition is simply what is stated.

Edited by limit (02/23/12 12:33 AM)

#386880 - 02/23/12 01:01 AM Re: ***TRIGGER ALERT*** Re: I'm attracted to preteens [Re: limit]
Chase Eric Offline

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 2588

Thought I would just add something about the dynamic. When I was 12 and my molester was 15/16, I knew it was wrong even more than he did. Or maybe he just didn't care. I mean he not only had me - and I was just a little boy physiologically - but he had a lot of 7-8 year old girls all over the neighborhood. When I saw what he was doing to them - even though I hadn't hit full sexual maturity - I knew it was dead wrong and did everything I could to stop it (short of going to an adult for fear that my own shameful acts with him would be uncovered). I think I had the edge over him when it came to intelligence - or maybe just a common sense of right and wrong.


#386892 - 02/23/12 02:48 AM Re: ***TRIGGER ALERT*** Re: I'm attracted to preteens [Re: Chase Eric]
Daniel_forgotten Offline

Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 479
lol omg.. stop elaborating stuff. a lot of us are fuvked up.. do we deserve to like.. die? ok. maybe. i ve been trying you know.. i just ended up in hospital every time. maybe you the guys who got it all right can help me...

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